Bitcoin Mixing | Bitcointalksearch.org

kuroman

hero member

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Quote from: bitkilo on August 10, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

Obviously the most legitimate use for Bitcoin mixing is to conserve privacy and improve safety for some people/companies that deals with large amount of BTCs, on the other hand, these services are most likely to be used for money laundry and for criminal activities, and this why in my opinion such services should include a service to survey and block any funds that were flagged such as in the case of the guy who lost over 1K BTC

Wilhelm

legendary

Activity: 1652

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Just set up three or four wallets and send the money through.
Yes they can trace it but no they cannot prove you owned the intermediate accounts.
You can then always say you bought them through localbitcoins.
Or sell your coins through localbitcoins.

Or

Create account on BTC-e using proxy or so.
Put money into account.
Trading to LTC or another shitty altcoin.
Send money to another trading site.
Trade back to BTC.
Put into your account.

HarmonLi

sr. member

Activity: 350

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Honest 80s business!

Quote from: ranochigo on August 11, 2014, 10:34:03 AM

Quote from: HarmonLi on August 11, 2014, 10:08:21 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on August 11, 2014, 08:24:17 AM

Quote from: tatu on August 11, 2014, 08:07:27 AM

Quote from: 2double0 on August 11, 2014, 07:50:16 AM

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.

Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

What if you're using proxies in order to mask your tracks or appear to come from another country? I think it's rather simple to appear to be anonymous on the Internet! It would also be interesting to see which Casinos / Dice sites really are going to cooperate with the law enforcement authorities!

If they give the authority the send address, you must have bought it from somewhere. It can be traced back to the owner if the casino releases the information. This is possible for the casino owner to not comply with the authority but they may be forced to shut down. If you bought it from the exchange, the authority can easily ask them for identity verifications and identify you.

But what if the authorities can't get hold of the casino owners? Some are operating from an obscure servers located on tropical islands or use various proxies themselves! It's not as if they're registered companies, to begin with :-/

DjPxH

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Quote from: Relnarien on August 11, 2014, 08:29:45 AM

Quote from: DjPxH on August 11, 2014, 08:08:07 AM

Quote from: bitkilo on August 10, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself!

Technically, if you reside in the US, then it is illegal under certain circumstances. Since Bitcoins are now subject to capital gains tax, then attempting to obscure your identity and/or your Bitcoin holdings with (or without) the intent of doing so in order to avoid paying tax is a legal, and possibly criminal, issue. According to the rumor mill, England and some parts of Europe might soon start taxing them as well. In the vein of this discussion, hiding one's wealth is indeed one of the primary reasons why people subscribe to coin mixing solutions, but saying that it's not illegal is not an acceptable defense if and when the government contests your reasoning.

Woah, really? Wow, didn't know that. Good thing, I'm not located there Cheesy

But thinking about it, from the side of the IRS or something, this makes a lot of sense. It is a suspicious behavior! Maybe the current rules and regulations just aren't made for Bitcoin and shouldn't apply!

ranochigo

legendary

Activity: 2982

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Quote from: HarmonLi on August 11, 2014, 10:08:21 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on August 11, 2014, 08:24:17 AM

Quote from: tatu on August 11, 2014, 08:07:27 AM

Quote from: 2double0 on August 11, 2014, 07:50:16 AM

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.

Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

What if you're using proxies in order to mask your tracks or appear to come from another country? I think it's rather simple to appear to be anonymous on the Internet! It would also be interesting to see which Casinos / Dice sites really are going to cooperate with the law enforcement authorities!

If they give the authority the send address, you must have bought it from somewhere. It can be traced back to the owner if the casino releases the information. This is possible for the casino owner to not comply with the authority but they may be forced to shut down. If you bought it from the exchange, the authority can easily ask them for identity verifications and identify you.

HarmonLi

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Honest 80s business!

Quote from: ranochigo on August 11, 2014, 08:24:17 AM

Quote from: tatu on August 11, 2014, 08:07:27 AM

Quote from: 2double0 on August 11, 2014, 07:50:16 AM

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.

Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

What if you're using proxies in order to mask your tracks or appear to come from another country? I think it's rather simple to appear to be anonymous on the Internet! It would also be interesting to see which Casinos / Dice sites really are going to cooperate with the law enforcement authorities!

jazzhot

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: mezmerizer9 on August 11, 2014, 09:46:35 AM

I really dont understand whats the point of that? Just not to be traced or is there something else? Can someone explain in details?

Probably because they have so many bitcoins that they don't want to be traced to avoid taxes etc.

mezmerizer9

hero member

Activity: 782

Merit: 1000

I really dont understand whats the point of that? Just not to be traced or is there something else? Can someone explain in details?

Bitcoins101

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Activity: 826

Merit: 508

Quote from: tatu on August 11, 2014, 08:43:41 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on August 11, 2014, 08:24:17 AM

Quote from: tatu on August 11, 2014, 08:07:27 AM

Quote from: 2double0 on August 11, 2014, 07:50:16 AM

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.

Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

Use tor or a proxy. It'll still be pretty difficult to trace it back to you if you;re careful.

It really depends upon whether or not your BTC has ever not been anonymous. If you always use proper anonymization techniques for yourself and your own IP address and never connect your own personal info to your BTC, you're pretty much home-free. Even if they can trace it, they can't trace it to you.

tatu

full member

Activity: 138

Merit: 100

Quote from: ranochigo on August 11, 2014, 08:24:17 AM

Quote from: tatu on August 11, 2014, 08:07:27 AM

Quote from: 2double0 on August 11, 2014, 07:50:16 AM

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.

Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

Use tor or a proxy. It'll still be pretty difficult to trace it back to you if you;re careful.

Bitcoins101

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 508

Quote from: Relnarien on August 11, 2014, 08:29:45 AM

Quote from: DjPxH on August 11, 2014, 08:08:07 AM

Quote from: bitkilo on August 10, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself!

Technically, if you reside in the US, then it is illegal under certain circumstances. Since Bitcoins are now subject to capital gains tax, then attempting to obscure your identity and/or your Bitcoin holdings with (or without) the intent of doing so in order to avoid paying tax is a legal, and possibly criminal, issue. According to the rumor mill, England and some parts of Europe might soon start taxing them as well. In the vein of this discussion, hiding one's wealth is indeed one of the primary reasons why people subscribe to coin mixing solutions, but saying that it's not illegal is not an acceptable defense if and when the government contests your reasoning.

That's really only an issue when cashing out or buying things, though. If you report that, you're not doing anything illegal but obfuscating your trail.

Relnarien

sr. member

Activity: 399

Merit: 257

Quote from: DjPxH on August 11, 2014, 08:08:07 AM

Quote from: bitkilo on August 10, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself!

Technically, if you reside in the US, then it is illegal under certain circumstances. Since Bitcoins are now subject to capital gains tax, then attempting to obscure your identity and/or your Bitcoin holdings with (or without) the intent of doing so in order to avoid paying tax is a legal, and possibly criminal, issue. According to the rumor mill, England and some parts of Europe might soon start taxing them as well. In the vein of this discussion, hiding one's wealth is indeed one of the primary reasons why people subscribe to coin mixing solutions, but saying that it's not illegal is not an acceptable defense if and when the government contests your reasoning.

ranochigo

legendary

Activity: 2982

Merit: 4193

Quote from: tatu on August 11, 2014, 08:07:27 AM

Quote from: 2double0 on August 11, 2014, 07:50:16 AM

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.

Yeah, true. However, most gambling sites keep a log of deposits and withdrawals. If they are contacted by the authority, they can hand over your original address and IP address. It is easy to know where it's from since most gambling site have a centralised wallet or a cold storage. Some coin mixers does not keep a log of your information and you can remain anonymous.

Bitcoins101

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 508

Quote from: DjPxH on August 11, 2014, 08:08:07 AM

Quote from: bitkilo on August 10, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself!

That's generally not worth a 1%+ fee. Just use multiple addresses.

DjPxH

full member

Activity: 210

Merit: 100

Quote from: bitkilo on August 10, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

I don't want people to know how many coins I have. If I send people coins from a big wallet or even an address that's being fed from a big wallet, they'd immediately know how much money I have! I just don't want people to know about that, it's not illegal to keep that for yourself!

tatu

full member

Activity: 138

Merit: 100

Quote from: 2double0 on August 11, 2014, 07:50:16 AM

If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

Do you even need to use a mixing service for this? You could probably just send it to a bitcoin gambling site and then instantly withdraw it again.

HarmonLi

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Honest 80s business!

Quote from: maximuss on August 11, 2014, 07:52:59 AM

Only mixing service I would use is bitcoinfog, they still can't be trusted 100% but it's the only one I'd feel comfortable sending larger amounts of btc.

Yeah, but please read the initial question. The post didn't ask about what mixing services to use, but rather about legitimate uses of those services apart from the obvious illegal ones, where you don't want your coins to be traceable!

maximuss

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Only mixing service I would use is bitcoinfog, they still can't be trusted 100% but it's the only one I'd feel comfortable sending larger amounts of btc.

2double0

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If you want to buy a good but dont want it to be traced back to you. Doesnt have to be illegal..

HarmonLi

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Honest 80s business!

Quote from: bitkilo on August 10, 2014, 11:24:01 PM

What are some legitimate uses for mixing your coins? If you have done this who did you use and was it quick and safe to do?

Remaining anonymous or just wanting to preserve your privacy. It is no ones business where I got my coins from and also no ones business where I decide to spend them. Due to the blockchain, transactions are traceable (which is a good thing, it holds up the integrity of Bitcoin) but it lowers your chances of remaining anonymous... For this mixing services are a great thing!

Topic: Bitcoin Mixing (Read 1611 times)