And this is up for debate and I don't think that we will settle this once and for all.
Of course maximalist will wanted to see bitcoin being used as P2P cash. But time has changed, when bitcoin went from $1-$10k then the landscape has evolved.
It's not longer just a P2P but people compare it to gold as as SoV. So it's really up to us bitcoiners on what we are going to used it, how will it benefit and no I'm sure there will be no consensus here.
Topic: Bitcoin: More of SoV or P2P Cash? - page 2. (Read 363 times)
I honestly don't care about what Satoshi designed Bitcoin for. I respect him for inventing Bitcoin, but Satoshi's vision, nor the whitepaper isn't law.
I only care about how it benefits ME and there is not one single entity that can tell me what to or what not to do with my coins. I support anybody's right to use Bitcoin, regardless of me linking people or certain businesses or not. The fact that they can use it shows how powerful this technology really is.
My primary usecase for Bitcoin is a decentralized store of value. Fiat does its job well locally as cash, so the incentive to use Bitcoin as cash is pretty low. It is however a great internet currency. I no longer have to use a bank that takes days to move money from one account to another. I can do that with Bitcoin fast and cheap and that 24/7 every single day.
I only care about how it benefits ME and there is not one single entity that can tell me what to or what not to do with my coins. I support anybody's right to use Bitcoin, regardless of me linking people or certain businesses or not. The fact that they can use it shows how powerful this technology really is.
My primary usecase for Bitcoin is a decentralized store of value. Fiat does its job well locally as cash, so the incentive to use Bitcoin as cash is pretty low. It is however a great internet currency. I no longer have to use a bank that takes days to move money from one account to another. I can do that with Bitcoin fast and cheap and that 24/7 every single day.
Bitcoin is not made to be a SoV.Bitcoin is made mainly for p2p cash/trading,basically a real currency.Bitcoin can be a SoV of one person but its risky compared to when we store our money using traditional things made to be an SoV like gold or real estate.Bitcoin is made to be a currency.
It doesn't matter if it was made for X - things change. This simply isn't how money works, no money in existence begun being used as MoE before it had value not even fiat currencies which are backed by no real value. A real currency needs value FIRST. Gold and real estate isn't 'made' to be a SoV the free market decided that they were based on their properties, properties which Bitcoin shares with both of them (e.g. scarcity).
we don't need any more evidence that the bitcoin paper that the creator wrote! in that Satoshi doesn't say bitcoin is for people to store their money in as in Store of Value, instead the only thing he says is a payment system without a middleman. that doesn't mean bitcoin is not a store of value, quite the contrary. because bitcoin is a high security currency with appreciating price, it is also a store of value.
And wait for the transaction to be completed which can take hours? How is that going to work when you are buying food, are you going to have to wait for hours for the transaction to complete and confirm? What about all the transaction fees? What about the fact that Bitcoin might just lose 30% of its value overnight, what is the business owner going to do, convert the btc immediately to a stable coin? Pay even more fees when he wants to actually cash out?
take hours? 'coffee' 'value loss over night' - dang your reading some old scripts
did you ever think that bitcoin does not have to be a one world currency for all 7billion people for every product type.
bitcoin can still be a p2p currency for niches
bartabs, gym memberships, 40minute fast food deliveries, restaurant meals.
trying to rule out and stifle bitcoins utility completely and pretend its useless as a p2p just because of chewing gum. is a foolish argument by those that cant think beyond what they been told
Those who are new to BTC only see it is a SoV unfortunately, most of them are unaware about the possibilities that bitcoin offers. Cryptographic security and privacy, no involvement of an intermediary in any case and ease of use.
It ll take a long time for bitcoin to reach satoshi's vision of being purely p2p. I really hope that by the time bitcoin reaches here, there will be no longer any kind of speculation about its value with regard to USD or any FIAT.
It ll take a long time for bitcoin to reach satoshi's vision of being purely p2p. I really hope that by the time bitcoin reaches here, there will be no longer any kind of speculation about its value with regard to USD or any FIAT.
Ok, let's say you are a normal business, small-medium at most, a bar/restaurant/shop and someone wants to convince you to accept bitcoin as payment, what are you going to tell the owner? What does he stand to gain from it aside from a headache? I really don't see it, do you?
i helped get loads of businesses to accept bitcoin between 2012-2015
if you only knew what happens after the customer walks out after a visa payment. business needs to do chargeback checks. wait for funds to actually arrive in bank account. have to keep transaction receipts for 5 years. has to pay monthly/yearly point of sale equipment costs.
with bitcoin its just a QR code and someone to swap to fiat
And wait for the transaction to be completed which can take hours? How is that going to work when you are buying food, are you going to have to wait for hours for the transaction to complete and confirm? What about all the transaction fees? What about the fact that Bitcoin might just lose 30% of its value overnight, what is the business owner going to do, convert the btc immediately to a stable coin? Pay even more fees when he wants to actually cash out?
Ok, let's say you are a normal business, small-medium at most, a bar/restaurant/shop and someone wants to convince you to accept bitcoin as payment, what are you going to tell the owner? What does he stand to gain from it aside from a headache? I really don't see it, do you?
i helped get loads of businesses to accept bitcoin between 2012-2015
if you only knew what happens after the customer walks out after a visa payment. business needs to do chargeback checks. wait for funds to actually arrive in bank account. have to keep transaction receipts for 5 years. has to pay monthly/yearly point of sale equipment costs.
with bitcoin its just a QR code and someone to swap to fiat
But it makes sense though, even though bitcoin was invented with the purpose of being a currency, it simply cannot do it right now, it will never work as normal currency, the volatility will always be there, even without it, transaction fees add up if you are using bitcoin for daily transactions, it's also slow, what are you going to do, wait 2 hours for a transaction to confirm to buy coffee?
seems your reading too much into the scripted rhetoric. (obvious by the use of 'coffee' out of billions of possible product purchases)
BITCOIN can be a normal currency. its not the fault of the technology that bitcoin is not being utilised to its full potential. the reason its not at its full potential is the 'conservative' devs who want to stifle bitcoin to offer and advertise alternative networks to try getting people off the bitcoin network.
before anyone jumps in defending a dev. remember bitcoin is not some self manifesting/evolving/writing AI. it is just code. and who writes the code... think about it
Ok, let's say you are a normal business, small-medium at most, a bar/restaurant/shop and someone wants to convince you to accept bitcoin as payment, what are you going to tell the owner? What does he stand to gain from it aside from a headache? I really don't see it, do you?
However, I could not understand...can't we have bitcoin function as both which can make it much better and far more attractive than the physical gold? Or am I missing something here which I probably don't catch up?
Bitcoin can't be better than real gold simply because BTC market have much less money than real gold and it is too unsafe. For some reason people don't look at Bitcoin and don't sell all their savings aiming to buy BTC for it. And for the same reason people are not selling all their BTC stashes to buy all those "bitcoin killer" shitcoins.
Bigger and more established market is always the best one.
But it makes sense though, even though bitcoin was invented with the purpose of being a currency, it simply cannot do it right now, it will never work as normal currency, the volatility will always be there, even without it, transaction fees add up if you are using bitcoin for daily transactions, it's also slow, what are you going to do, wait 2 hours for a transaction to confirm to buy coffee?
seems your reading too much into the scripted rhetoric. (obvious by the use of 'coffee' out of billions of possible product purchases)
BITCOIN can be a normal currency. its not the fault of the technology that bitcoin is not being utilised to its full potential. the reason its not at its full potential is the 'conservative' devs who want to stifle bitcoin to offer and advertise alternative networks to try getting people off the bitcoin network.
before anyone jumps in defending a dev. remember bitcoin is not some self manifesting/evolving/writing AI. it is just code. and who writes the code... think about it
bitcoin can be a p2p cash and SoV
but bitcoin cant be just a SoV
to be a SoV it has to have value, which is found due to actually being useful and not a crapcoin.
so if bitcoin loses its value as a medium of exchange then its just an empty token
but bitcoin cant be just a SoV
to be a SoV it has to have value, which is found due to actually being useful and not a crapcoin.
so if bitcoin loses its value as a medium of exchange then its just an empty token
there is absolutely no argument about what bitcoin is and what Satoshi created bitcoin to be. it is a currency as it has always been and as the bitcoin paper is calling it a "peer to peer digital cash". what different people treat bitcoin as is a different matter. usually because price is always rising people tend to see bitcoin as an investment rather than a currency which is why they have invented the store of value concept and have been advertising it ever since the last big rise and high fees of 2017ish.
But it makes sense though, even though bitcoin was invented with the purpose of being a currency, it simply cannot do it right now, it will never work as normal currency, the volatility will always be there, even without it, transaction fees add up if you are using bitcoin for daily transactions, it's also slow, what are you going to do, wait 2 hours for a transaction to confirm to buy coffee?
Why would anyone want to spend a deflationary currency?
gresham's law agrees insofar as fiat money being more tempting to spend than bitcoin. but what if fiat monies are eventually abandoned and we return to hard money and commodity backed money? in an age characterized by honest money, especially post-mass adoption where bitcoin's speculative value (based on future utility) is gone, i think people would be more inclined to spend it like a medium of exchange.
Bitcoin is not made to be a SoV.Bitcoin is made mainly for p2p cash/trading,basically a real currency.Bitcoin can be a SoV of one person but its risky compared to when we store our money using traditional things made to be an SoV like gold or real estate.Bitcoin is made to be a currency.
If you look into the history of various forms of money and how they evolved over their lifetimes SoV always comes before a MoE. Why would anyone want to spend a deflationary currency? Once some stability is reached (5+ years away) its utility as a MoE will become more prominent.
there is absolutely no argument about what bitcoin is and what Satoshi created bitcoin to be. it is a currency as it has always been and as the bitcoin paper is calling it a "peer to peer digital cash". what different people treat bitcoin as is a different matter. usually because price is always rising people tend to see bitcoin as an investment rather than a currency which is why they have invented the store of value concept and have been advertising it ever since the last big rise and high fees of 2017ish.
Well, that debate was took over the years between these two. I'm sure it's originally designed as peer-to-peer cash as per the whitepaper, but when the high volatility strikes, it becomes more complicated as for others and it somewhat becomes a store of value as it has finite numbers of supply.
Which I don't think why Satoshi never realise this stuff and come up with an idea of cash instead of store value. Or if satoshi did explain some of this stuff when he still around the forum?
Which I don't think why Satoshi never realise this stuff and come up with an idea of cash instead of store value. Or if satoshi did explain some of this stuff when he still around the forum?
As of press time, I am having a sigh of relief because bitcoin is back on the $8,000+ zone and hopefully in the next few days there can some pressure for it to go upwards. Now, there is a resurrection of the debate whether Satoshi Nakamoto designed bitcoin from its foundation to be a Store of Value (SoV) or primarily a Peer-to-Peer cash. Both sides are presenting their arguments well with evidence and proofs included.
However, I could not understand...can't we have bitcoin function as both which can make it much better and far more attractive than the physical gold? Or am I missing something here which I probably don't catch up?
Jump to: