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Topic: Bitcoin needs something equivalent to a stock split - page 2. (Read 5462 times)

member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
Reeducating a million users is far easier and more productive than introducing a billion potential users to an ugly, cumbersome, and transactionally costly-to-communicate legacy naming convention.  

Like Pol Pot?  I think you will find stiff resistance amongst the libertarian-oriented community of early bitcoin adopters.

I'm planning to sell a bitcoin shirt soon.  I'll probably price them at the low, low price of 39 milliBTC each.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10


Do this and then call them Bitcoins NOT 'microbitcoins'.

Call 10^8 Satoshis something else, a "full ______ of Bitcoins."

They are a million times apart in scale, this makes it easy to tell which system is being used during the transition. And the transition wont take long once it gets started, since it is such a better scheme, for many reasons.

Come one people, quit pussy footing around. This is the true semantic stock split that Bitcoin needs.

Reeducating a million users is far easier and more productive than introducing a billion potential users to an ugly, cumbersome, and transactionally costly-to-communicate legacy naming convention. 

Amen!
newbie
Activity: 19
Merit: 0
I wonder would this have the same effect:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3862

It's a move to change the default representation of the currency to microBTC

Do this and then call them Bitcoins NOT 'microbitcoins'.

Call 10^8 Satoshis something else, a "full ______ of Bitcoins."

They are a million times apart in scale, this makes it easy to tell from context which system is being used, during the transition. And the transition wont take long once it gets started, since it is such a better scheme, for many reasons.

Come one people, quit pussy footing around. This is the true semantic stock split that Bitcoin needs.

Reeducating a million users is far easier and more productive than introducing a billion potential users to an ugly, cumbersome, and transactionally costly-to-communicate legacy naming convention.  
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
There is a psychological barrier because milli and micro sound 'small'. People don't want to hand over a whole wad of greenbacks and receive micro-bitcoins. I'm a fan of using uBTC but just referring to them as 'bits'.

Are there people who think "I've got 50 bucks! You know what, I've a notion to buy some bitcoins. How much would I get? Oh no! Only 83 millibitcoins Sad I guess I just won't bother."? I guess there might be, but it's presumably a fairly small demographic.

I sell to a guy thru localbitcoins.com who fits that description. He is by no means a high roller and he buys around $100 worth each time, he is a pizza delivery guy but he moves some loot into BTC when he can afford it.

They are out there, not everybody is completely clueless about math.

and on the metric system topic... my god what a sad state of affairs that "Americans think metric is too hard" it is a base ten COUNTING system. It is literally the easiest system for humans to count and if they really are too fucking stupid to move a goddamn decimal point their fuckin smartphone will do it for them.

I'll be back, I need to go smash my head into a wall for a bit (or maybe a megabit) while I contemplate whether there actually is any particular reason for the existence of humans.
full member
Activity: 126
Merit: 100
I wonder would this have the same effect:

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/3862

It's a move to change the default representation of the currency to microBTC

If that happened I'd be rich!!







(....crosses fingers and really really hopes everyone gets it)
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 503
There is a psychological barrier because milli and micro sound 'small'. People don't want to hand over a whole wad of greenbacks and receive micro-bitcoins. I'm a fan of using uBTC but just referring to them as 'bits'.

Are there people who think "I've got 50 bucks! You know what, I've a notion to buy some bitcoins. How much would I get? Oh no! Only 83 millibitcoins Sad I guess I just won't bother."? I guess there might be, but it's presumably a fairly small demographic. Surely most people buying BTC have some reason for buying it - they'll want to buy something that's priced in BTC, or they'll be looking into BTC as an investment and they'll have some idea how much they plan to invest, and how much it costs in fiat, etc. I'd hope these latter two groups would base decisions on more practical matters than perceptions of size.

To be honest, though, I think this is all moot - we will adopt conventions like you suggest, and others. Different groups of people using Bitcoin will use different conventions. Already there's a whole community of people thinking in terms of "Satoshis". I tend to think in terms of BTC (force of habit), but people are clearly starting to think of mBTC. And that's fine! It's all nice and decentralised. The OP suggested a technical solution; I believe that if there is a problem it's a social problem, and one for which we don't need a centralised, imposed solution.
full member
Activity: 120
Merit: 100
There is a psychological barrier because milli and micro sound 'small'. People don't want to hand over a whole wad of greenbacks and receive micro-bitcoins. I'm a fan of using uBTC but just referring to them as 'bits'.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 503
I see that there is a big unification towards the "millibit" terminology, but I think that is too confusing for the average person.  In the united states, we have resisted switching to the Metric system because "it's just too damn confusing." (which is insane, because inches and feet are arbitrary.  We should have switched to the metric system ages ago.)
Maybe the average person in US. But fortunately, everybody else uses the confusing metric system and since bitcoin is a global currency that just seems fair. Besides, you don't have prefixes in imperial system (at least afaik) and no one wants to own 50 foot bitcoins.

I wonder how true that is for the US? Presumably folk in the US have gone through a couple of decades of bytes, kilobytes, megabytes, gigabytes and terabytes? For that matter, surely people in the US are familiar with expressing numbers like this -> 1,000,000,000.000,000,001 <- ?

I guess I just don't buy this "it's too confusing for some people" argument. The first time I bought real estate it involved a learning curve; but I needed to do it (buy a house) so I made the effort to learn the jargon, the regulations and the units used in the locale. If people need to do something, they learn how to do it. And the learning required for Bitcoin, compared with purchasing property, is pretty minimal (fairly minimal jargon, no regulations, the units are familiar to anyone who's bought a hard drive). Maybe I just have more faith in other people's friends and elderly relatives.
newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
I see that there is a big unification towards the "millibit" terminology, but I think that is too confusing for the average person.  In the united states, we have resisted switching to the Metric system because "it's just too damn confusing." (which is insane, because inches and feet are arbitrary.  We should have switched to the metric system ages ago.)
Maybe the average person in US. But fortunately, everybody else uses the confusing metric system and since bitcoin is a global currency that just seems fair. Besides, you don't have prefixes in imperial system (at least afaik) and no one wants to own 50 foot bitcoins.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Then they are morons.
Hello..! 95% of all people ARE morons.

I resemble that remark!!!

I mean, heh yup.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
Then they are morons.
Hello..! 95% of all people ARE morons.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
We don't need 'new bitcoins' we just need to shift the decimal right some. Sooner we do it, easier it will be.
Same problem. Or even worse probably. Having "shifted" vs "unshifted" bitcoins is gonna confuse the hell out of people.

You seriously don't see how this is gonna cause TONS of people wine "I PAID 0.17 BTC FOR MY PIZZA, I GOT RIPPED OFF" etc?

Then they are morons. All that needs to be done is the community needs to approve a shift, official bitcoin client gets release with said shift and all wallets are forced to be updated. Period. People wake up and notice they have a hell of a lot more whole numbers than they went to sleep with.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
We don't need 'new bitcoins' we just need to shift the decimal right some. Sooner we do it, easier it will be.
Same problem. Or even worse probably. Having "shifted" vs "unshifted" bitcoins is gonna confuse the hell out of people.

You seriously don't see how this is gonna cause TONS of people wine "I PAID 0.17 BTC FOR MY PIZZA, I GOT RIPPED OFF" etc?
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Having "new" bitcoins vs "old" bitcoins (where 2 or 10 or 50 news ones equal one old) is WAY more confusing than using "milliBits".

Currently, one milliBit is about $ 0.61. That's REALLY cheap! Sounds like pennystocks to me, let's pick up a few of those Smiley

We don't need 'new bitcoins' we just need to shift the decimal right some. Sooner we do it, easier it will be.
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
Having "new" bitcoins vs "old" bitcoins (where 2 or 10 or 50 news ones equal one old) is WAY more confusing than using "milliBits".

Currently, one milliBit is about $ 0.61. That's REALLY cheap! Sounds like pennystocks to me, let's pick up a few of those Smiley
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
agree - the issue is to use bitcoins for its purpose ie low cost transactions. the yen is about 1% of the US dollar but people get their head around it. its the opposite to something being about 650 times one dollar but it is the same fundamental issue.

It's not the same issue, just a similar one. Here's the difference:


Imagine a can of coke is valued 0.99 $, and also imagine people would prefer to use the unit "kilodollar" (k$) for some insane reason.
Now, how would that can of coke be priced?

It's 0.00099 k$.

...or was it 0.00990 k$?
...or maybe .000099 k$?

On the other hand, let's imagine people would prefer to use "millidollar" (m$) for some other insane reason.
Taking the same can of coke, how would the price look like?

It's 990 m$.

This cannot be mistaken as 9900 m$.
And it cannot be mistaken as 99 m$.


Have a look at the numbers above. As you can see, it is much much more difficult to count the post-decimal zeros than to just measure the length of the number. That's a big difference.
So, if we're in doubt, we should prefer to use a too small-sized unit rather than a too big-sized unit.


Currently, people use a too big-sized unit (BTC), which makes it necessary to count post-decimal zeros. This is inconvenient and error-prone.


Exactly, when I try to explain the decimals to people their eyes glaze over and they mentally check out. I mean, a bitcoin is currently worth a take-home paycheck for a lot of people, when you tell them that they lose interest immediately and that's in the U.S., if you want half the world to adopt it (that make far far far far far less money) 1 bitcoin is currently worth more than most of them will make in a YEAR, worldwide, the median household income is only about $10,000 (16.12BTC) and it's fairly lower in a lot of places... If you want people to adopt it as a currency, it needs to be easy to understand and not make people feel like they'll be bitcoin poor.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10


take FIAT for instance. dollar notes are called benjamins, lincolns, etc. in the UK. a monkey, a pony, etc.

In 29 years I've NEVER heard anyone refer to a 5$ bill as a 'lincoln'. Ever.
full member
Activity: 224
Merit: 100
Ƶ = µBTC
While my previous long answer is the true origin - that I searched for made-up words that might fit the need until finding a good one – I've since learned that ZIB was also the name given to a stray dog that was drafted into the Soviet Space Program in September 1951, and flew a successful suborbital test flight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_dogs#Bolik_and_ZIB

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2011/04/05/bark-at-the-moon-a-history-of-soviet-space-dogs/

Thus I'm retconning the Zibcoin name as an homage to ZIB, the unlikeliest space mutt.

Without any formal preparation, I'm guessing ZIB got closer to the moon than any Shiba Inu. Attaboy, ZIB!

ZIB, we remember you.

When you look into an etymological dictionary, you'll see that many words have two (or more) etymologies... so I'll give another one:

Zibcoin is the short form of zipped microbitcoin, which is a technical term for "compressed microbitcoin", i.e. a shorter version of the word "microbitcoin".




But the etymology shouldn't bother us to much; what I really care about is whether we will get these images...

https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/icons/bitcoin.png
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/icons/bitcoin_testnet.png
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/images/splash.png
https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/qt/res/images/splash_testnet.png

...with a Ƶ instead of a BTC?

Then we would have the most important ingredients for a successful altcoin(-age). Cheesy
newbie
Activity: 31
Merit: 0

I would like to know the etymology of "zib". Smiley

While my previous long answer is the true origin - that I searched for made-up words that might fit the need until finding a good one – I've since learned that ZIB was also the name given to a stray dog that was drafted into the Soviet Space Program in September 1951, and flew a successful suborbital test flight:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_dogs#Bolik_and_ZIB

http://webecoist.momtastic.com/2011/04/05/bark-at-the-moon-a-history-of-soviet-space-dogs/

Thus I'm retconning the Zibcoin name as an homage to ZIB, the unlikeliest space mutt.

Without any formal preparation, I'm guessing ZIB got closer to the moon than any Shiba Inu. Attaboy, ZIB!

ZIB, we remember you.
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