Bitcoin network fees are not high is you who can't afford it.

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Quote from: molsewid on December 08, 2023, 09:36:26 AM

I agree, been in this industry for years now and during this season the network fees get higher and the transaction time takes hrs before it will go to your wallet, I also do experienced receiving my btc before that took me days. But if you will compare the fee when sending money across the globe yes it is cheaper compared to traditional ones, but then not all will accept this kind of method.

the problem of quite expensive network fees and long time estimates means that small traders can only stay on their trading platforms, unable to make withdrawals because of the quite large fees for the Bitcoin network.
But if you don't fully use Bitcoin, the costs of other chain networks are very cheap and can be faster. This depends on whether you want to use the Bitcoin network or not, but for me, I not only use Bitcoin but there are other coins with cheaper networks that I can use.

molsewid

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Quote from: Victorik on December 02, 2023, 09:54:22 AM

No one enjoys paying a high transaction fees, it's not fun to just pay a high transaction fees. Most people do this because they don't have a choice and probably need the transaction confirm quickly.
So it's not about not been able to afford it really. I disagree with you

I agree, been in this industry for years now and during this season the network fees get higher and the transaction time takes hrs before it will go to your wallet, I also do experienced receiving my btc before that took me days. But if you will compare the fee when sending money across the globe yes it is cheaper compared to traditional ones, but then not all will accept this kind of method.

Pandu Geddon

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Quote from: Luffygroove on December 08, 2023, 04:59:59 AM

However, if Bitcoin can't keep up with fees and scalability, it might become a symbol rather than a practical asset.

the current situation will not continue. High fees also occur on the Ethereum network. and that's what makes many users complain. but gradually things got better again. If I'm not mistaken, Bitcoin transactions usually fell some time ago. then climb back up.
However, there is also a bright side when transaction costs become expensive. there will be more people holding onto their Bitcoins rather than selling them at sky-high prices.
we should be patient with anyone waiting for a reduction in transaction costs.

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Quote from: Odohu on November 24, 2023, 03:53:53 AM

Bitcoin offers the most convenient and cheapest means of sending money across borders

I kind of agree with this. Bitcoin started with perks for peer-to-peer and efficient transactions without middlemen. Yet, being the pioneer, its development might lag compared to newer projects with original developers. These newcomers can offer more advantages. Bitcoin, hailed as the King, stands irreplaceable. However, if Bitcoin can't keep up with fees and scalability, it might become a symbol rather than a practical asset. Imagine the epic scenario where Bitcoin regains efficiency and fast transactions, that would be a game-changer, bringing back its original appeal and solidifying its role as a powerhouse in the crypto world.

Victorik

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No one enjoys paying a high transaction fees, it's not fun to just pay a high transaction fees. Most people do this because they don't have a choice and probably need the transaction confirm quickly.
So it's not about not been able to afford it really. I disagree with you

GeorgeJohn

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It's laughable that you are saying that bitcoin network the fees is not high for now,a process whereby you send ten thousand worth of bitcoin to a wallet or to an exchange and it take less than low fee to get confirmed, but now it take approximately one thousand worth of bitcoin to get confirmed of ten worth of bitcoin then you are saying its not high, many bitcoiners who is in the signature campaigns have been changing their wallet of custodial wallet to exchange wallet because of the fees of bitcoin, because transferring your bitcoin from your custodial wallet to exchange wallet it will consume more of BTC that's while many people is changing with exchange wallet.

Orpichukwu

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If a $10 fee for a Bitcoin transaction is considered affordable, then the network is not designed for the average person. It seems to be intended only for the wealthy few, despite Bitcoin's promise of greater financial inclusivity.

No doubt that's also how people believe that the fee should be more than what we are seeing currently for maximum security, but for those of us who have not been able to even foot the $1 fee when ever we see it, $10–$30 is a lot to consider as few for someone who has less than a thousand as a holding; indeed, it's really few of us that can't afford the fee, but deep now many will also agree that the fee is not cheap; it might be for you, but it's expensive.

Jon_Hodl

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While the on-chain fees are high and none of us like that, high fees are an incredibly important part of scaling bitcoin. Without the increase in fees, there isn't a way to tell how much demand there is to send bitcoin.

When people pay fees that are that high, it serves as the price signal to the market that there is demand for sending bitcoin. This provides the incentive for businesses to innovate and invest in alternative scaling technologies.

As much as I hate to say it, these ordinals and inscriptions clowns are actually saving a lot of pleb miners from capitulation. For any circular economy transactions, we should all be doing what we can to build local P2P lightning network while we wait for the on-chain fees to cool off. It sucks for now but it is a very necessary pain that needs to exist to properly scale bitcoin.

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Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

snip
I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

the news about high bitcoin fees is actually not a bad thing imo, in fact, it is good news so that beginners have considerations before investing in bitcoin, i remember when i first bought bitcoin, even though the fees at that time were not too high, however, i was quite surprised that buying Bitcoin requires a fee, Beginners will definitely be well prepared if they know that Bitcoin fees are very fluctuating and can change at any time. If you have been in Bitcoin for a long time, the current Bitcoin fee will definitely not change. bother you, but if you are still a beginner, you have to prepare yourself for all of that, as time goes by, bitcoin buyers have to be prepared for high bitcoin transaction costs, because when mass adoption occurs then bitcoin fees will not be much different from the current costs.

Marykeller

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OP, I want to bring into illustration, the high fees of bitcoin in today's world for you to understand how it feels for people who want to transact with it but can't due to the high gas fees.

Take for example, a product that was being sold for $1 before, and today you were asked to pay for the same product for $10. How will you feel about the price? Will you keep quiet about the price, not to complain about it even if you can afford the new price of the product?

OP, what I want you to have in mind is that every product has its worth price for people to charge for it(bitcoin gas fees I mean). You can give someone a high product price, thinking that they can afford it just because it has value and it is widely used.

As time goes on, People would begin to find other alternatives if the charged price increment continues and never decreases.

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Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

Hey newbies and OGs, just i quick reminder of the current condition of the Bitcoin network and what it is like with the hike in transaction fees and network congestion.
First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis, the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.

Then I will assume that you have spent $50-$100 from when this post was made. Do you know how valuable the dollar currency is when converted to another currency? I bet you have enough but personally, this fees are high for common person and bitcoin is meant to serve everyone diligently. If traditional finances are so wicked and do request for high fees to make transactions, then bitcoin ought to have been smaller and reasonable for everyone but I guess the overloading volume is much more than expected from the design.

Quote

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

It's not only the newbies that discuss the fees, it's the concern people among the community that discuss it. Paying high fees doesn't mean you are new, you can be old here and be having a ye challenge to pay $20 for a fee, the money that is enough to feed some people and be satisfied and this fees is not a one time. It's a continuous fees as long as you keep moving bitcoin from A -------->B.

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Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it,

You know why you don't have a Bugatti, right? It's not because it costs a few millions , it's your fault for not affording it!
This whole thing started wrong, the fees are not mandatory it's a pure auction, the higher bidder gets the spot, the one that has either 99.9% or 1% of that will not get anything, not mattering how much he needed to grab it.

Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, .

Good for me that I'm not a newbie and I can complain!
You know , it's this attitude of pummeling everyone that dares to criticize something with the usual crap about doing something else that irks me the worse. So listen here, every single newbie or veteran has the right to say one big fuck you to the fees, it has the right to criticize this and nobody should force anyone to think only of the positives, this is how you end up with something useless, by not taking actual action to repair broken things.

Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

Really, this is weird
How is your coffee shop doing with all these fees?
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.59128185

Quote from: Odusko on February 01, 2022, 01:29:20 AM

With the decentralized nature of Bitcoin that have Thousands of Nigeria Citizens who have knowledge of blockchain and digital currencies and have adopted it, In December 2021 I launched a campaign among crypto friends to adopt Bitcoin as a mode of payment in our venture and outlets, on 31st of January I open a Coffee shop and the Capital City Abuja for Bitcoin and none Bitcoin customers. This is aimed at promoting Bitcoin adoption and, as a newbie member here, I wish to see your advice and suggestions.

I'm quite interested to hear how this is working out when a customer has to pay at least 2$ for buying a coffee in your shop!

And since you're not talking about it there are only two possibilities
- you've gone bankrupt and this shows how stupid this whole thing about shutting people off is
- it was all a BIG FAT L....

Saint-loup

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Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

Hey newbies and OGs, just i quick reminder of the current condition of the Bitcoin network and what it is like with the hike in transaction fees and network congestion.
First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis, the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.
I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

That's a very provocative topic bro, if we are too poor to use Bitcoin, for what kind of people it's destined actually? I'm not aware Satoshi Nakamoto specified in his white paper it was designed for rich people only. In addition where have you seen that "Bitcoin old term holder" can afford to pay such high fees, you really think they are all rich people? It's easy to tell new users to "pay high fees and move on" but that overlooks the need for a necessary improvement of the network. Concerns about high fees shouldn't be downplayed but rather seen as opportunities for enhancement IMO.

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Quote from: ZAINmalik75 on November 25, 2023, 02:23:09 PM

You made me wonder if, in the past, such situations occurred or not. Because, to my knowledge, I did not know if there was any past event where congestion would have stayed for this long.

I think this is neither the longest nor the worst Bitcoin mempool congestion. Check the historical charts, you will see that 2021 was much worse than what we have today.

ZAINmalik75

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You made me wonder if, in the past, such situations occurred or not. Because, to my knowledge, I did not know if there was any past event where congestion would have stayed for this long. I am aware of the last congestion, which was when the ordinal problem started, but at that time it remained there for a few days, and after that, things returned to normal. After that, we saw small congestions in comparison to this one, but they also vanished after some time.
But this time the congestion is staying for a longer period of time, which is making me and all of the newbies, even OGs, sick. But not those who have already set a lighting node. The lighting node is the best solution to all this, but setting it up is also an issue for newbies.

Most of the newbies don't want to pay a fee or are stuck due to the small UTXOs, and now they can't pay the fee. To pay the fee, they have to make a transaction, which costs more than the UTXO they have remained with. Old users are not talking about this issue, which is totally wrong. A bundle of topics opened since this congestion issue, and many old users replied to those topics. I think you missed them.

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Quote from: DdmrDdmr on November 24, 2023, 08:02:34 AM

Exceptions aside, fees are indeed not above values seen in the past, but cost is probably best seen in comparison to the amount one wants to send. Clearly sending very small amounts of bitcoin, whilst within normal ranges for many to send, do encounter nowadays high fees compared to the base amount being sent. Fees on TXs that send higher amounts are relatively smaller compared to the base amount being sent, and thus are conceptually easier to digest.

This is balanced and a cogent summary of this discussion. While the whales do not blink an eye over the increase in Tx fees, little fries like majority of us are sweating already over the it. I took some time to monitor some wallets I was able to connect to some popular mixers to check the flow of transactions amidst this increase in fees, I notice that while transaction of lower amounts reduced, bigger amounts are being transacted unhindered.

So the crux of the matter is that majority of us are feeling the impact of the high fees because of the amount of Bitcoin we move, this being in line with what OP is saying. But then, nobody love spending too much, so the whales will still feel happy if the fees normalises.

RhianR

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Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on November 25, 2023, 11:17:29 AM

Any shop will be convinced to start accepting btc in current situation?

Lightning Network isn't popular in that corner of the world. That's the problem of the shop.

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Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

First, as the title states clearly that Bitcoin network fees are not high but it is you as a holder who can't afford it, the reason being that many newbies and some few old members have mistaken this current network condition to mean a crisis, the reality of things is that, most Bitcoin old term holder are not complaining because they already have experience of how the Bitcoin networks work per time, and if they want to make a transaction they rather just pay high fees and move on rather than paying low fees with long time of waiting because a lot of transaction volumes that have higher fees than yours are already broadcast into the network so it takes long time before getting your transaction confirm.

We prefer Bitcoin over fiat because of many reasons like decentralization, low fee, available globally, sending and receiving without restrictions. Now one reason (low fee) is missed which is not good for Bitcoin. If I want to sell my 50$ btc which I hold in my wallet and I need urgent payment then There is two options. pay more than 10$ fee or wait until this problem solved. Now why I choose btc where i cannot fulfill my need properly. We love btc but that's not mean that we will support every limitations despite of thinking how to solve it

Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 03:49:05 AM

I hope that a long time from now, most newbies will stop making news from this kind of temporary network congestion, and start focusing more on how to contribute to making the Bitcoin network cleaner and globally adaptable to all, for me I don't see any negativity in bitcoin but rather a lot of opportunity to develop along with Bitcoin as an alternative among another alternatives.

How will people accept it if we want to convince other in current situation? We will told him that you have to pay 20$ fee for avery transaction, what do you think he will accept it? Any shop will be convinced to start accepting btc in current situation?

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Quote from: Fiatless on November 25, 2023, 10:42:14 AM

Lightning Network will be a good option to for those seeking low transactions option..

LN will be a good choice for someone who makes small TX more often but it definitely not an option for someone who wants to move their funds from their wallet to an exchange just because the exchange supports LN deposits but what they don't know is how the LN wors and to create LN channel the funds require an on-chain TX which is same as paying the fee that need to be confirmed which is also misunderstood by many and need to be addressed.

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Quote from: Odusko on November 24, 2023, 08:31:44 AM

Please 🙏 the basis for this thread is not to create an argument rather but to trigger up discussions that can help our basic knowledge.
Also, I have tried to edit the title a bit to give it a better introduction to what the ops really covers, hope this works well for you guys.

We can claim that paying high fees is better than losing privacy especially if you can afford it. But these fees will make Bitcoin less competitive because even fiat transactions are now cheaper. But it is wonderful that you rephrased that topic to enable newbies to know that the high transaction fee is temporal and this topic can now foster discussions that will help expose newbies to alternatives. Lightning Network will be a good option to for those seeking low transactions option..

Quote from: Z390 on November 24, 2023, 09:03:09 AM

Are you trying to show off because you can afford the transaction fee? I can also afford it but honestly it's a waste of money, there is nothing to be ashamed of if you decide to queue using small transaction fee or just abandon the transaction for now and try again another day.

The OP has debunked the insinuation that he is unconcerned with the high transaction fees because he is rich. He has also apologized for the misconception his topic has created.

Topic: Bitcoin network fees are not high is you who can't afford it. (Read 482 times)