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Topic: Bitcoin open source wallets that support replace-by-fee (RBF) - page 3. (Read 1548 times)

legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
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Really not everyone knows how to accelerate their transactions.
Assuming if the mempool is congested, the person can just click on the transaction to accelerate it like on Electrum, it is very simple. Even if the person do not know how to accelerate it, he can come to this forum and ask. Like on Electrum, the transaction support RBF by default and we can instruct the person to just pump the fee easily.

Yeah, but just remember that it might be expensive on your end to do RBF, reason being, based on my experienced,
There is nothing expensive about using RBF, just check the mempool to know the best fee rate that you can use. If not in a hurry, you can wait for the mempool to become decongested and the transaction would later be included in a block.

Recently, 1 sat/vbyte transactions are not getting confirmed since many days ago, but 4 to 5 sat/vbyte are getting confirmed. If the person needs the money urgently today, he can just set the fee to 4 sat/vbyte, which is not expensive at all.
legendary
Activity: 2576
Merit: 1655
I have not done this Replace by fee (RBF) but a friend of mine did it and told me that it was good and it made the transaction very fast. Really not everyone knows how to accelerate their transactions.

Just one example, you can enable it on Electrum if you wanted to have this capability in your open source wallet.

In my own understand of the whole stuff is when the person uses low transaction fee with many blocks to verify the process, then the delay of unconfirmed occurred. But if the person set high transaction fee rate, then the transaction would be faster. When the transaction is slow as it is said, the person can check the mempool to track the movement of the coins.
Op thanks you for the information.

Yeah, basically that's it, so there's a lot of benefits to enable this features on a wallet. And I guess it should be the norm for every bitcoin user. Because just like in recent months, the fees has been tremendously high, it used to be a minimum 1 sat/vByte, but due to ordinals in which the mempool has been clogged those normal fees that we are used to are stuck and many are complaining how to accelerate or bump the fee.

If they only knew this features on most of the open source wallet, then they won't have any headaches. The cons is that you will have to used more than usual fees. And looking at the mempool now, 1 sat/vByte is no longer viable for a quick confirmation.
legendary
Activity: 2506
Merit: 1125
I have not done this Replace by fee (RBF) but a friend of mine did it and told me that it was good and it made the transaction very fast. Really not everyone knows how to accelerate their transactions. In my own understand of the whole stuff is when the person uses low transaction fee with many blocks to verify the process, then the delay of unconfirmed occurred. But if the person set high transaction fee rate, then the transaction would be faster. When the transaction is slow as it is said, the person can check the mempool to track the movement of the coins.
Op thanks you for the information.
I don't know if the wallet you are using supports this feature or not, but it is really useful when transaction fees fluctuate fast. In many cases, RBF can save confirmation time, it also helps you when you expect a fast transaction. But somehow you may have ignored it.

But to minimize the possibility of getting stuck on your transaction, then try to get recommended fees on several sites, it can be on mempool.space or also on blockchair.
hero member
Activity: 2338
Merit: 757
I have not done this Replace by fee (RBF) but a friend of mine did it and told me that it was good and it made the transaction very fast. Really not everyone knows how to accelerate their transactions. In my own understand of the whole stuff is when the person uses low transaction fee with many blocks to verify the process, then the delay of unconfirmed occurred. But if the person set high transaction fee rate, then the transaction would be faster. When the transaction is slow as it is said, the person can check the mempool to track the movement of the coins.
Op thanks you for the information.

If you always do peer-to-peer transactions, I advise you to get used to using the feature. An example is that you buy bitcoin from someone you do not know and send you the transaction with a small fee after you pay it. Through the CPFP feature, you can resend the amount in a new transaction to another address of yours. This will cost more fees, but a more secure transaction because as long as the transaction is not confirmed by the network, the sender can recover the bitcoins through the double-spend feature.
The Bitcoin protocol provides useful features. All it takes is your seed words. Unfortunately, most users are not aware of this because closed source wallets and trading platforms do not provide these features on the wallets that they offer. I think they should not be called wallets at all.
hero member
Activity: 1344
Merit: 540
I have not done this Replace by fee (RBF) but a friend of mine did it and told me that it was good and it made the transaction very fast. Really not everyone knows how to accelerate their transactions. In my own understand of the whole stuff is when the person uses low transaction fee with many blocks to verify the process, then the delay of unconfirmed occurred. But if the person set high transaction fee rate, then the transaction would be faster. When the transaction is slow as it is said, the person can check the mempool to track the movement of the coins.
Op thanks you for the information.

Yeah, but just remember that it might be expensive on your end to do RBF, reason being, based on my experienced,

(1) somehow you have been waiting long enough (in my case 5 days), so I have to do that with a higher fee because I wanted to get it confirmed right away as I can't no longer way, hence I have to increased it more than the initial fee

(2) if you are not in a hurry, don't used it, just saying.

(3) check mempool first so that you will know how much fee you need to pay in order for your transaction not to be stuck
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1341
I have not done this Replace by fee (RBF) but a friend of mine did it and told me that it was good and it made the transaction very fast. Really not everyone knows how to accelerate their transactions. In my own understand of the whole stuff is when the person uses low transaction fee with many blocks to verify the process, then the delay of unconfirmed occurred. But if the person set high transaction fee rate, then the transaction would be faster. When the transaction is slow as it is said, the person can check the mempool to track the movement of the coins.
Op thanks you for the information.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Pumping the fee would have been a better solution for this: Someone can help me accelerate stuck transaction

Learn how to unstuck your bitcoin transaction by using the right wallet, not the wallets that do not support opt-in RBF. Check the OP to know the wallets that support opt-in RBF.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18711
Let us see what would happen has full RBF is on the latest version of Bitcoin Core, if node runners will support it (mempoolfullrbf=1) which will later make opt-in RBF not necessary.
Some nodes are already starting to run it, but even if the majority don't, I suspect at some point in the future (perhaps even by v25.0, which is scheduled for May 2023) it will get switched to default true rather than default false, at which point it will rapidly spread throughout the network. Then it won't be a case of your wallet requiring to opt in to RBF - every transaction will be automatically opted in. The only stumbling block to using RBF at that point will be whether or not your wallet is good enough to support making such a transaction, but if it isn't you can always import your seed phrase in to a better wallet and do it from there, even if you had never even heard of RBF when you made the original transaction.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
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You do not have to wait longer when the mempool is congested or when you pay low fee, use wallets that support opt-in RBF to make transactions that support RBF to pump transaction fee which is the reason for this thread, for bitcoin users not to experience the frustration of (stuck) bitcoin transactions that do support pumping fee.

You can read more on full RBF (not opt-in) from the release note of the latest Bitcoin Core that was released few weeeks ago: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/doc/release-notes/release-notes-24.0.md

Quote
This version of Bitcoin Core adds a new mempoolfullrbf configuration option which allows users to change the policy their individual node will use for relaying and mining unconfirmed transactions. The option defaults to the same policy that was used in previous releases and no changes to node policy will occur if everyone uses the default.

Some Bitcoin services today expect that the first version of an unconfirmed transaction that they see will be the version of the transaction that ultimately gets confirmed---a transaction acceptance policy sometimes called "first-seen".

The Bitcoin Protocol does not, and cannot, provide any assurance that the first version of an unconfirmed transaction seen by a particular node will be the version that gets confirmed. If there are multiple versions of the same unconfirmed transaction available, only the miner who includes one of those transactions in a block gets to decide which version of the transaction gets confirmed.

Despite this lack of assurance, multiple merchants and services today still make this assumption.

There are several benefits to users from removing this first-seen simplification. One key benefit, the ability for the sender of a transaction to replace it with an alternative version paying higher fees, was realized in Bitcoin Core 0.12.0 (February 2016) with the introduction of BIP125 opt-in Replace By Fee (RBF).

Since then, there has been discussion about completely removing the first-seen simplification and allowing users to replace any of their older unconfirmed transactions with newer transactions, a feature called full-RBF. This release includes a mempoolfullrbf configuration option that allows enabling full-RBF, although it defaults to off (allowing only opt-in RBF).

Let us see what would happen has full RBF is on the latest version of Bitcoin Core, if node runners will support it (mempoolfullrbf=1) which will later make opt-in RBF not necessary.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18711
The story is also very easy to tell, but setting zero transaction fee is nearly impossible because most people are using SPV wallets which the fee will be customized to at least 1 sat/vbyte.
You can do it on full client wallet, like Bitcoin Core.
It's not even the fact that most wallets won't let you do it, but rather, most nodes won't bother to broadcast it. Yes, you can create a transaction on Bitcoin Core which pays less than 1 sat/vbyte in fees, or indeed zero fee altogether, but given that the vast majority of nodes use the default minRelayTxFee of 1 sat/vbyte, then your transaction simply won't be broadcast through the network.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 641
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I must say that this is a very good article that would guide beginners and even some experienced Bitcoin users. I affirm all these as accurate, which makes me know the extent to which they are concise and detailed for anyone to read a short article and still gain all the needed knowledge through it.

Basically, I'm used to the Electrum wallet among your listed wallets, and it's a very good option that supports the replace-by-fee (RBF) feature. While the Child-Pays-for-Parent (CPFP) is another option to accelerate BTC transactions but has not been a good option for me due to its complexity. Regardless, what has an advantage usually has a disadvantage, and thanks for elaborately sharing the hurdles anyone could face in using all these features.

Conclusively, the high fee to execute small transactions caught my attention, and it's highly insane. This makes me advise that anyone that wants to transact Bitcoin should visit mempool to adjust the fee accordingly to their preference for completion speed to avoid unnecessary delay and extra cost.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
I agree, it should be more readily available to amateur investors. I read a story about a guy who was very wealthy from investing in bitcoin. He was the victim of a home invasion & was tortured to send a large amount of bitcoin to the thieves.
It would be good if the story points to privacy, because it is possible that if privacy is taken seriously, thieves would not have invaded his home. But people just do not care about privacy these days, unlike before when bitcoin was created.

The story is also very easy to tell, but setting zero transaction fee is nearly impossible because most people are using SPV wallets which the fee will be customized to at least 1 sat/vbyte. The thieves may use a kind of wallet that would not reflect unconfirmed transaction until it is confirmed.

I am a fan of RBF but never heard of this angle before. Seems like it would just confirm before the home invaders would leave.
Presently, no miner would take 0 fee, so expect the transaction not to confirm at all unless RBF is used to include a fee.


How did he manage to broadcast a transaction less than 1 sat/vbyte? I've been trying to figure out how to do this for an experiment but am not sure if it's possible.
You can do it on full client wallet, like Bitcoin Core.
member
Activity: 221
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He sent x amount of bitcoin with 0 sat/byte fee, he waited for them to go & then did RBF to an address that HE controlled.


I am a fan of RBF but never heard of this angle before. Seems like it would just confirm before the home invaders would leave.

How did he manage to broadcast a transaction less than 1 sat/vbyte? I've been trying to figure out how to do this for an experiment but am not sure if it's possible.

Are you sure that he didn't just send with 1 sat/vbyte?
legendary
Activity: 3262
Merit: 1614
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I agree, it should be more readily available to amateur investors. I read a story about a guy who was very wealthy from investing in bitcoin. He was the victim of a home invasion & was tortured to send a large amount of bitcoin to the thieves. He sent x amount of bitcoin with 0 sat/byte fee, he waited for them to go & then did RBF to an address that HE controlled.

Obviously the robbers weren’t tech gifted so went he sent the bitcoin without a fee they didn’t have a clue. He then managed to divert to coins to himself to avoid losing them. I assume he moved house so they didn’t come back when they figured out what he’d done.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
What did you mean? Does any custodial wallet allow you increase the fee by any form? I can't remember if I have seen any such services or not. Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense either because custodial services usually cut higher fee than average and send with a higher fee as they send in batch.
They are custodial wallet, they may pay in batches like exchanges to gain more from their customers, so likely no custodial wallet has RBF, but possible if no batch payment and if the software of the wallet is well designed, but I do not think a custodial wallet would think in that direction. If I should conclude, no custodial wallet with that RBF feature, but the purpose of this thread is not still defeated, which is to refers only to the open wallets that support RBF, while discouraging close source wallet and custodial wallet.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18711
That would really be helpful, because of this, more people will dump their wallet for better ones.
Once full RBF becomes the standard and is in common usage, then every wallet should support RBF. I'm sure there will be plenty that won't, but failing to do so at that point becomes the same as failing to support segwit addresses - a complete failure on the part of that wallet or service.

Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense either because custodial services usually cut higher fee than average and send with a higher fee as they send in batch.
And by sending in a batch, they make RBF for a single user prohibitively expensive, since that individual user would be attempt to bump a batch transaction which could be several thousands of vbytes in size.
legendary
Activity: 2156
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Though I'm not familiar with most of them as I'm only using Electrum and Bitcoin Core for now, this is a helpful one. Thanks for this.


Note: No close source wallet mentioned, if there is any, let me know so I can edit and correct it. No custodial wallet mentioned, because of obvious reason of not your key not your coin.
What did you mean? Does any custodial wallet allow you increase the fee by any form? I can't remember if I have seen any such services or not. Also, it doesn't make a lot of sense either because custodial services usually cut higher fee than average and send with a higher fee as they send in batch.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1018
Not your keys, not your coins!
I mean if you have 0.005 BTC and you broadcast it, later you can use Replace by Fee by increasing your fee rate, but the total value of that transaction would be 0.005 BTC. It is the same value is your previous broadcasted transaction but with a lower fee rate.
Well, the additional fee has to come from somewhere. If you aren't adding more inputs, then you have to take away from the outputs, and if you don't have a change output to take away from then you will end up paying the recipient less than originally intended.
I did not mean about payments to others (receivers). I meant about using RBF for my own transactions so a little bit reduction in transaction value after increasing fee rate by bumping fee is not a matter.

I agree with you that if it is a transaction to a receiver that is not a sender too, the sender must add a little bit satoshi from that wallet to use RBF. Receiver will not like to receive a transaction that is less than what he should get even a few hundred of satoshi.
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 4795
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
It won't be long before opting in to RBF is a thing of the past. Every transaction will be eligible to be RBFed - the only stipulation is whether or not your wallet software will let you do it (but you can always import your seed phrase/private keys to a better piece of software if needed).
Which means it is still possible that if all nodes treats all unconfirmed transactions to support RBF by default, some wallets may decide not to still include the feature, but if the seed phrase or the private key of such wallet is imported on wallet that support it by default, it won't be like this time when not supported, CPFP would be used but more fee, instead, the seed phrase or private would be imported on the wallet that support RBF and be used to pump the fee using RBF. That would really be helpful, because of this, more people will dump their wallet for better ones.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 18711
Lastly, have you heard about full RBF? Nothing like that has been implemented, but maybe it would be possible in the future, you can follow this thread about it:
It has been implemented. The mempoolfullrbf option is part of Bitcoin Core v24.0, which will be released in the coming days. I don't think it will take too long before the network starts to adopt it, especially given that miners will make more profit if they do and will lose out on profits to other miners if they don't. It won't be long before opting in to RBF is a thing of the past. Every transaction will be eligible to be RBFed - the only stipulation is whether or not your wallet software will let you do it (but you can always import your seed phrase/private keys to a better piece of software if needed).

I mean if you have 0.005 BTC and you broadcast it, later you can use Replace by Fee by increasing your fee rate, but the total value of that transaction would be 0.005 BTC. It is the same value is your previous broadcasted transaction but with a lower fee rate.
Well, the additional fee has to come from somewhere. If you aren't adding more inputs, then you have to take away from the outputs, and if you don't have a change output to take away from then you will end up paying the recipient less than originally intended.
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