Bitcoin or gold? - page 380. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Amph

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Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 11:19:58 AM

Quote from: Amph on June 25, 2016, 09:42:01 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:48:36 AM

Quote from: markj113 on June 25, 2016, 02:32:05 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:23:46 AM

You can easily estimate the real market for oil by multiplying production by price. 96 million barrels per day would give 35,040 million barrels per annum, which at the price of $50 per barrel would be 1.75 trillion dollars of oil produced annually (for the given conditions). The total amount of all gold out there estimated to be 182,000 metric tonnes which roughly equals to 5,650 million troy ounces. At the price of $1,300 per ounce you get your 7.1 trillion dollars of the so-called "market cap" for gold...

Now, the annual production of oil in dollar terms constitutes only a quarter of all gold produced throughout history

You cant work out gold cap based on physical supply as comex is currently leveraged over 500:1 so market cap is significantly higher.

I'm comparing only physical oil with physical gold. Annual gold production in, say, 2014 reached 2,860 metric tons, which at $1,300 per ounce roughly equals 120 billion dollars. This number amounts to a little over 6% of oil production in dollar terms (strictly speaking, we should use the 2014 prices, and in this case the percentage shrinks to mere 3%). That's why I'm saying that gold market is actually by far smaller than oil market. 7 trillion dollar gold market cap is pointless per se since it cannot be used for comparison purposes. It is just a number which may be fun to count or learn about, lol, but which is as meaningless as it is misleading because it has nothing to do with real markets...

All paper will burn

it does not make sense to ignore the marketcap and see only the trading volume, because it is clear that not all the supply available will ever be used for trading, that's why i was not talking about trading volume, and i don't care about it

even in bitcoin only a tiny % of coins is used for trading the vast majority are in hold mode, some are lost etc...

Exactly this "tiny % of coins" determines the price (read volatility, i.e. what we started with), not the market cap, which itself is just a product of multiplication of two numbers, one of which is price. And exactly because of this the +7T dollar gold market cap is irrelevant while the volume actually traded is. Ttrading volume may actually be times the market cap if, for example, the same coin changes many hands in the given time span...

I'm really fascinated how stubborn or stupid you are (you choose which)

it does not make sense because those coin in hold mode can at any time enter in play and destroy your daily trading like nothing, so one must take into account the whole marketcap and not the daily trading done with the coins in action

besides that only a stupid call other stupid, you random insulting as usual don't bring nothing to the discussion, keep them for yourself

hawkins

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I think both are very good at this time, you only live view, which will give you a big advantage, bitcoin or gold. if I was you, I probably would choose bitcoin, because so much expertise that I know about bitcoin

deisik

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Quote from: Amph on June 25, 2016, 09:42:01 AM

still the oil marketcap is less significant than gold , that's why there is more swing, but those swing are still insignificant compared to bitcoin p&d, so the theory that a greater marketcap equal to more stability it's correct

As I said, market cap as such is irrelevant to price determination since it is a result of this process (often meaningless at that), not one of its factors. Whereas the volume traded is one of the major factors in finding the market price as well as restraining volatility. Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as oil market cap (only trading volume per certain period of time)...

If you disagree, I'm all years to hear your version what "oil market cap" is (and how it is calculated)

gerXhonza

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Quote from: GamingBro on June 25, 2016, 11:24:03 AM

Quote from: tigershark on June 25, 2016, 11:14:55 AM

I think it's better to keep a little of both gold and bitcoin as well as other investments. We don't know which ones are going to increase or decrease so it is better to diversify.

Sometimes people have no opportunity to get some gold, but almost everybody can use internet nowdays, so bitcoin in this case is much better, but gold is safety anyway.

Gold is always good but the best thing about bitcoin is you don't need to buy full bitcoin, you can always buy it small parts and that gives an opportunity to buy even more in future if price drops.

GamingBro

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Quote from: tigershark on June 25, 2016, 11:14:55 AM

I think it's better to keep a little of both gold and bitcoin as well as other investments. We don't know which ones are going to increase or decrease so it is better to diversify.

Sometimes people have no opportunity to get some gold, but almost everybody can use internet nowdays, so bitcoin in this case is much better, but gold is safety anyway.

deisik

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Quote from: Amph on June 25, 2016, 09:42:01 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:48:36 AM

Quote from: markj113 on June 25, 2016, 02:32:05 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:23:46 AM

You can easily estimate the real market for oil by multiplying production by price. 96 million barrels per day would give 35,040 million barrels per annum, which at the price of $50 per barrel would be 1.75 trillion dollars of oil produced annually (for the given conditions). The total amount of all gold out there estimated to be 182,000 metric tonnes which roughly equals to 5,650 million troy ounces. At the price of $1,300 per ounce you get your 7.1 trillion dollars of the so-called "market cap" for gold...

Now, the annual production of oil in dollar terms constitutes only a quarter of all gold produced throughout history

You cant work out gold cap based on physical supply as comex is currently leveraged over 500:1 so market cap is significantly higher.

I'm comparing only physical oil with physical gold. Annual gold production in, say, 2014 reached 2,860 metric tons, which at $1,300 per ounce roughly equals 120 billion dollars. This number amounts to a little over 6% of oil production in dollar terms (strictly speaking, we should use the 2014 prices, and in this case the percentage shrinks to mere 3%). That's why I'm saying that gold market is actually by far smaller than oil market. 7 trillion dollar gold market cap is pointless per se since it cannot be used for comparison purposes. It is just a number which may be fun to count or learn about, lol, but which is as meaningless as it is misleading because it has nothing to do with real markets...

All paper will burn

it does not make sense to ignore the marketcap and see only the trading volume, because it is clear that not all the supply available will ever be used for trading, that's why i was not talking about trading volume, and i don't care about it

even in bitcoin only a tiny % of coins is used for trading the vast majority are in hold mode, some are lost etc...

Exactly this "tiny % of coins" determines the price (read volatility, i.e. what we started with), not the market cap, which itself is just a product of multiplication of two numbers, one of which is price. And exactly because of this the +7T dollar gold market cap is irrelevant while the volume actually traded is. Trading volume may actually be times the market cap if, for example, the same coin changes many hands in the given time span...

I'm really fascinated how stubborn or stupid you are (you choose which)

tigershark

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I think it's better to keep a little of both gold and bitcoin as well as other investments. We don't know which ones are going to increase or decrease so it is better to diversify.

diodio5

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Quote from: boybugs18 on June 25, 2016, 02:40:16 AM

I would go for Gold as it is very much easier to sell in the present day rather than Bitcoin .

Lol I think it will take more easily bitcoin. you just need to go to the exchange using your gadget or your laptop and you can sell and buy very easily on the exchange. different when you want to sell gold. you should take it to the store of gold and I'm sure you will be frightened by the robbers. it will be very difficult #imo

Amph

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Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:48:36 AM

Quote from: markj113 on June 25, 2016, 02:32:05 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:23:46 AM

You can easily estimate the real market for oil by multiplying production by price. 96 million barrels per day would give 35,040 million barrels per annum, which at the price of $50 per barrel would be 1.75 trillion dollars of oil produced annually (for the given conditions). The total amount of all gold out there estimated to be 182,000 metric tonnes which roughly equals to 5,650 million troy ounces. At the price of $1,300 per ounce you get your 7.1 trillion dollars of the so-called "market cap" for gold...

Now, the annual production of oil in dollar terms constitutes only a quarter of all gold produced throughout history

You cant work out gold cap based on physical supply as comex is currently leveraged over 500:1 so market cap is significantly higher.

I'm comparing only physical oil with physical gold. Annual gold production in, say, 2014 reached 2,860 metric tons, which at $1,300 per ounce roughly equals 120 billion dollars. This number amounts to a little over 6% of oil production in dollar terms (strictly speaking, we should use the 2014 prices, and in this case the percentage shrinks to mere 3%). That's why I'm saying that gold market is actually by far smaller than oil market. 7 trillion dollar gold market cap is pointless per se since it cannot be used for comparison purposes. It is just a number which may be fun to count or learn about, lol, but which is as meaningless as it is misleading because it has nothing to do with real markets...

All paper will burn

it does not make sense to ignore the marketcap and see only the trading volume, because it is clear that not all the supply available will ever be used for trading, that's why i was not talking about trading volume, and i don't care about it

even in bitcoin only a tiny % of coins is used for trading the vast majority are in hold mode, some are lost etc...

still the oil marketcap is less significant than gold , that's why there is more swing, but those swing are still insignificant compared to bitcoin p&d, so the theory that a greater marketcap equal to more stability it's correct

JumperX

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Quote from: boybugs18 on June 25, 2016, 02:40:16 AM

I would go for Gold as it is very much easier to sell in the present day rather than Bitcoin .

Do your really think that gold is easier to sell in compare to bitcoin? No..bitcoin is very easy to sell and buy in compare to gold, as while selling gold you need to follow many rules and regulations.

deisik

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Quote from: markj113 on June 25, 2016, 02:32:05 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:23:46 AM

You can easily estimate the real market for oil by multiplying production by price. 96 million barrels per day would give 35,040 million barrels per annum, which at the price of $50 per barrel would be 1.75 trillion dollars of oil produced annually (for the given conditions). The total amount of all gold out there estimated to be 182,000 metric tonnes which roughly equals to 5,650 million troy ounces. At the price of $1,300 per ounce you get your 7.1 trillion dollars of the so-called "market cap" for gold...

Now, the annual production of oil in dollar terms constitutes only a quarter of all gold produced throughout history

You cant work out gold cap based on physical supply as comex is currently leveraged over 500:1 so market cap is significantly higher.

I'm comparing only physical oil with physical gold. Annual gold production in, say, 2014 reached 2,860 metric tons, which at $1,300 per ounce roughly equals 120 billion dollars. This number amounts to a little over 6% of oil production in dollar terms (strictly speaking, we should use the 2014 prices, and in this case the percentage shrinks to mere 3%). That's why I'm saying that gold market is actually by far smaller than oil market. 7 trillion dollar gold market cap is pointless per se since it cannot be used for comparison purposes. It is just a number which may be fun to count or learn about, lol, but which is as meaningless as it is misleading because it has nothing to do with real markets...

All paper will burn

boybugs18

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I would go for Gold as it is very much easier to sell in the present day rather than Bitcoin .

coinplus

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Quote from: jossiel on June 22, 2016, 11:56:20 PM

Quote from: goldcoinminer on June 22, 2016, 11:50:17 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: avw1982 on June 22, 2016, 08:13:31 PM

Quote from: Dwelach on June 22, 2016, 09:30:02 AM

It is not wrong to use them both offcourse because there are always people who has both. But if you want to pay stuff in store you only can use gold becasue bitcoin is to new. So what is best i think gold.

Nope the best one is Bitcoin only, It is easy to trade than traditional gold. Border-less, you can carry bitcoin anywhere in the world. But gold needs a lot of formalities. Some people argue diamonds are border-less. But it can not be traded in minutes. So, bitcoin is greater than anything else...

I won't say that the best one is only bitcoin. Gold is good, bitcoin is good. It is just going to depend on how you are using them.
If you are a gold trader and then you are getting good profit from it then gold is the best choice for you.
Same thing with bitcoin.

I think we need to choose one in order to focus it to get the maximum income, what I like about bitcoins is we are in the early stage, so with that being said, we have the most potential to earn in the future and we know that bitcoins is beginning to be popular internationally so when massive adoption happens the price will skyrocket due to good demand.

For me, you don't have to choose one from them. As long as you are able to manage them properly that's not going to be a problem.
If you want to max out your income then go for many source like gold and bitcoin. If you are just going to focus to only one, you are
not able to max out your earnings.

I think for max out our profit bitcoin alone is enough as I am investing only in bitcoin and I am getting a very good amount of profit alone in bitcoin while for gold I will say that gold price increase is not sure or it is much slower so we cannot rely on it for profit.

markj113

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Quote from: deisik on June 25, 2016, 02:23:46 AM

Quote from: Amph on June 25, 2016, 01:51:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 24, 2016, 09:49:21 AM

Quote from: Amph on June 24, 2016, 08:25:22 AM

did oil have the same cap of gold? no, gold never had a 30% + swing on daily basis like bitcoin, which was recently dumped and rised again like it was nothing

I'm afraid that the oil market cap is times (if not orders) greater than that of gold market. Gold market is actually minuscule when compared to the volumes of oil traded daily, both physical and paper. Average real demand for oil equals to nearly 96 million barrels of oil and liquid fuels per day. And now add to that the host of oil derivatives markets to get an idea how huge this market actually is (though I shouldn't doubt your obstinacy, lol). It may well happen that the oil market is the largest market ever out there. And it is not unseen for oil to make 20% price swings within just a few days despite the enormous capitalization of this market...

Now go ahead with your usual bullshit and semantic noise

i'm not talking about volume, i'm talking about mere marketcap, gold has around 7T, oil has more than that? i doubt

You can easily estimate the real market for oil by multiplying production by price. 96 million barrels per day would give 35,040 million barrels per annum, which at the price of $50 per barrel would be 1.75 trillion dollars of oil produced annually (for the given conditions). The total amount of all gold out there estimated to be 182,000 metric tonnes which roughly equals to 5.650 million troy ounces. At the price of $1,300 per ounce you get your 7.1 trillion dollars of the so-called "market cap" for gold...

Now, the annual production of oil in dollar terms constitutes only a quarter of all gold produced throughout history

You cant work out gold cap based on physical supply as comex is currently leveraged over 500:1 so market cap is significantly higher.

deisik

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Quote from: Amph on June 25, 2016, 01:51:13 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 24, 2016, 09:49:21 AM

Quote from: Amph on June 24, 2016, 08:25:22 AM

did oil have the same cap of gold? no, gold never had a 30% + swing on daily basis like bitcoin, which was recently dumped and rised again like it was nothing

I'm afraid that the oil market cap is times (if not orders) greater than that of gold market. Gold market is actually minuscule when compared to the volumes of oil traded daily, both physical and paper. Average real demand for oil equals to nearly 96 million barrels of oil and liquid fuels per day. And now add to that the host of oil derivatives markets to get an idea how huge this market actually is (though I shouldn't doubt your obstinacy, lol). It may well happen that the oil market is the largest market ever out there. And it is not unseen for oil to make 20% price swings within just a few days despite the enormous capitalization of this market...

Now go ahead with your usual bullshit and semantic noise

i'm not talking about volume, i'm talking about mere marketcap, gold has around 7T, oil has more than that? i doubt

You can easily estimate the real market for oil by multiplying production by price. 96 million barrels per day would give 35,040 million barrels per annum, which at the price of $50 per barrel would be 1.75 trillion dollars of oil produced annually (for the given conditions). The total amount of all gold out there is estimated to be 182,000 metric tonnes which roughly equals 5,650 million troy ounces. At the price of $1,300 per ounce you get your 7.1 trillion dollars of the so-called "market cap" for gold (which is meaningless since only a tiny part of that gold is actually traded)...

Now, just the annual production of oil in dollar terms constitutes a quarter of all gold produced throughout history

goldcoinminer

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Quote from: Amph on June 25, 2016, 01:51:13 AM

if you think that bitcoin will stop here, you ar ebeing wrong, bitcoin will at least double on each halving, as expected

so by 2028, you will have around 6-8k in bitcoin at the very least

I hope you are right man because I have fully trust bitcoins that it will really rise by the coming halving. Risking already a huge portion of my investment money because I see this as an opportunity to invest everytime there is halving.

Amph

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Quote from: deisik on June 24, 2016, 09:49:21 AM

Quote from: Amph on June 24, 2016, 08:25:22 AM

did oil have the same cap of gold? no, gold never had a 30% + swing on daily basis like bitcoin, which was recently dumped and rised again like it was nothing

I'm afraid that the oil market cap is times (if not orders) greater than that of gold market. Gold market is actually minuscule when compared to the volumes of oil traded daily, both physical and paper. Average real demand for oil equals to nearly 96 million barrels of oil and liquid fuels per day. And now add to that the host of oil derivatives markets to get an idea how huge this market actually is (though I shouldn't doubt your obstinacy, lol). It may well happen that the oil market is the largest market ever out there. And it is not unseen for oil to make 20% price swings within just a few days despite the enormous capitalization of this market...

Now go ahead with your usual bullshit and semantic noise

i'm not talking about volume, i'm talking about mere marketcap, gold has around 7T, oil has more than that? i doubt

i can't find a precise number right now on the web for oil....

Quote from: markj113 on June 24, 2016, 10:17:14 AM

Well looks like I have played my cards right.

All my profits from bitcoin have been put into gold the last 2 years.

I have just sold a part of my stack and will be dumping the rest Monday morning at dealer. This then gives me enough cash to pay off the remaining balance of my mortgage so I am one happy chappy.

40 years old and no debt. No credit cards, no store cards, no loans, no overdraft and no mortgage

if you think that bitcoin will stop here, you ar ebeing wrong, bitcoin will at least double on each halving, as expected

so by 2028, you will have around 6-8k in bitcoin at the very least

klaaas

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if you think in terms of profit in a short time ., bitcoin wil still has the highest rates in the past week

cambda

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Quote from: uname on June 24, 2016, 06:04:04 PM

Quote from: chineseprancing on June 24, 2016, 07:15:23 AM

Its better to buy bitcoins not gold. Gold price is increasing slowly but bitcoin increases so fast, its possible to get a large profit in bitcoins so i am recommending bitcoins

I think if you want to benefit quickly you have to choose bitcoin. but you should know its risks? if you want to be safe then choose investing in gold dude

If you want to earn good returns on your investments then first of all you need to minimize your risks, and that is only possible by diversifying your investments, so the best choice is to invest in both of them.

hermanhs09

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Quote from: uname on June 24, 2016, 06:04:04 PM

Quote from: chineseprancing on June 24, 2016, 07:15:23 AM

Its better to buy bitcoins not gold. Gold price is increasing slowly but bitcoin increases so fast, its possible to get a large profit in bitcoins so i am recommending bitcoins

I think if you want to benefit quickly you have to choose bitcoin. but you should know its risks? if you want to be safe then choose investing in gold dude

Gold is not safe LOL there is no point because there is no fine use for gold, bitcoin is a currency that has a printing limit where they cant send out more than taht amount and the halving will even cut that amount more to end up making btc rise more.

Topic: Bitcoin or gold? - page 380. (Read 984547 times)