The conspiracy language isn't relevant to the main point, so I'll sidestep that.
More to the point: do people really think .gov gives a flying fuck about a petition? Has any petition to congress/president/judges/pta-moms ever actually accomplished anything beyond telling the petitionees precisely who thinks what? The website isn't there to change anything; it's there for data collection.
Topic: Bitcoin petition to stop US gov from interfering (Read 5079 times)
I did a search, and didn't see this posted anywhere here, so here it is. If its been posted already, feel free to remove. It doesn't look like there's much chance of reaching the goal, but ya never know!
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/cease-all-actions-overt-or-covert-intended-interfere-free-market-enterprises-bitcoin-and-mt-gox/P0X41V1X
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/cease-all-actions-overt-or-covert-intended-interfere-free-market-enterprises-bitcoin-and-mt-gox/P0X41V1X
If the US (or any major government) wanted to destroy Bitcoins, they would build enough ASICs to be about to mount constant 51% attacks until no one cared about Bitcoins anymore.
Or they could just declare Bitcoins illegal based on its use by drug-dealing, child-porn-making, terrorists.
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Bitcoin was created by a special team at the Treasury called "Stack Hunt". The project began in 2006 after an internal report on illicit online transactions generated significant concern within the highest levels of the US government. "Stack Hunt" tracks every coin and uses complex statistical analytics to uncover the identities of persons using Bitcoins.
The US government isn't that stupid. Washing Bitcoins is relatively easy compared to washing hard cash. With time it will become even easier and cheaper to wash them.
As a practical manner the US didn't even succeed with going after silk road salesman.
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They keep most of their coins in cold storage, so unless they're going to pull some physical black ops stuff, there's no stealing the bulk of any exchanges coins.
Right because the US government has no possible way to run a physical blacks ops...But even without physical attacks the government could just stay a month in the system and get the key of the "cold storage" coin vault.
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Not to mention, I doubt any expensive 0day exploit most governments have access to would not risk loosing that asset against a system that could possibly reverse engineer and ruin the very expensive "super secret 0day".
If you look at the way the government used Flame or the way the Chinese hack all kinds of US companies I don't think the have much fear to start cyber attacks if the care about hurting someone. The black market price of a zero-day exploit for a government is around $1 million. The stuff isn't "very expensive".
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The Government would much rather keep things covert until the point where the gloves must come off and then they start saber rattling, followed by making laws, and examples of people to really shut Bitcoin down.
What incentive does the government have to do this covertly?Openly declaring that the government wants to move against bitcoin would stop the venture capitalist people from moving money into bitcoin.
The US was never really covert about opposing Wikileaks and the 100 people task force against Wikileaks.
I really don't understand the people who think that the government is an all powerful entity out to get them but then fails so miserably at the task even through it would be relatively easy.
The petition says in part:
"There is evidence to suggest that recent attacks in the media and through so called DDOS (distributed denial of service attacks) on crypto-currency exchanges such as Mt. Gox are being run by elements of the U.S. government...."
Other than some comments on YouTube vids I never heard of any such "evidence." I have seen claims that the hard fork was cased by the FBI because Gavin had apparently met with them a few days before. Then I saw some comments that speculated the government did DDOS attacks against Mt. Gox but I never seen any credible evidence of that and I find it extremely hard to believe. I would not sign a petition like that.
"There is evidence to suggest that recent attacks in the media and through so called DDOS (distributed denial of service attacks) on crypto-currency exchanges such as Mt. Gox are being run by elements of the U.S. government...."
Other than some comments on YouTube vids I never heard of any such "evidence." I have seen claims that the hard fork was cased by the FBI because Gavin had apparently met with them a few days before. Then I saw some comments that speculated the government did DDOS attacks against Mt. Gox but I never seen any credible evidence of that and I find it extremely hard to believe. I would not sign a petition like that.
If the petition wants to be taken seriously they should remove this immediately. As long as it stands I cannot sign it.
If I would be a nation state opposed to bitcoin and use cyber capabilities against it, I wouldn't run DDoS attacks. I would hack MtGox and steal their coins. Both China and the US should have the capabilities to do so. If all the bitcoins of the exchanges would be constantly stolen.
They keep most of their coins in cold storage, so unless they're going to pull some physical black ops stuff, there's no stealing the bulk of any exchanges coins. Not to mention, I doubt any expensive 0day exploit most governments have access to would not risk loosing that asset against a system that could possibly reverse engineer and ruin the very expensive "super secret 0day". Quote
The botnet's that run the DDoS on MtGox are probably payed via bitcoin by someone who spectulates on the price changes that the DDoS attacks cause.
DDoS attacks are cheap. You don't need to be a nation state to run a DDoS. You just need to pay a small sum of money to rent a botnet.
But back to a nation state attacking bitcoin, cyber attacks aren't needed. The US could simply start suing all bitcoin miners for facilitating money laundering and violating the principle of know-your-customer.
Announcing such law suits would alone do a lot more damage to bitcoins price than the DDoS attacks against exchanges. If current laws aren't enough congress can always pass additional laws.
The world doesn't look the way it would if the US government would make an attempt to shut down bitcoin. The US government isn't filled with the smartest people but if those people would go after bitcoin they could still do serious damage. Damages that exceed the damage that a single individual can cause by rented a botnet with his bitcoins.
DDoS attacks are cheap. You don't need to be a nation state to run a DDoS. You just need to pay a small sum of money to rent a botnet.
But back to a nation state attacking bitcoin, cyber attacks aren't needed. The US could simply start suing all bitcoin miners for facilitating money laundering and violating the principle of know-your-customer.
Announcing such law suits would alone do a lot more damage to bitcoins price than the DDoS attacks against exchanges. If current laws aren't enough congress can always pass additional laws.
The world doesn't look the way it would if the US government would make an attempt to shut down bitcoin. The US government isn't filled with the smartest people but if those people would go after bitcoin they could still do serious damage. Damages that exceed the damage that a single individual can cause by rented a botnet with his bitcoins.
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Governments operate on the theory of plausible denial ability, so no one is going to see any "proof".
Actually the US is perfectly able to attack other groups without any plausible denial ability.The Government would much rather keep things covert until the point where the gloves must come off and then they start saber rattling, followed by making laws, and examples of people to really shut Bitcoin down. People should really check out the guy that wrote that article. He claimed after the "correction" that this was just "their" first attempt to crash the thing and were most likely gauging the market to tune their software. He claims that when they really want to bring it down (and roll people in front of the cameras) is when the real carnage is going to ensue. He says they might not use their software again for years, or it could be next week, should the market go parabolic again or TPTB feel threatened. http://www.naturalnews.com/039850_bitcoin_bubble_crash_globalists.html
Where do I put a petition to ask Obama to stop stealing my socks?
If I would be a nation state opposed to bitcoin and use cyber capabilities against it, I wouldn't run DDoS attacks. I would hack MtGox and steal their coins. Both China and the US should have the capabilities to do so. If all the bitcoins of the exchanges would be constantly stolen.
The botnet's that run the DDoS on MtGox are probably payed via bitcoin by someone who spectulates on the price changes that the DDoS attacks cause.
DDoS attacks are cheap. You don't need to be a nation state to run a DDoS. You just need to pay a small sum of money to rent a botnet.
But back to a nation state attacking bitcoin, cyber attacks aren't needed. The US could simply start suing all bitcoin miners for facilitating money laundering and violating the principle of know-your-customer.
Announcing such law suits would alone do a lot more damage to bitcoins price than the DDoS attacks against exchanges. If current laws aren't enough congress can always pass additional laws.
The world doesn't look the way it would if the US government would make an attempt to shut down bitcoin. The US government isn't filled with the smartest people but if those people would go after bitcoin they could still do serious damage. Damages that exceed the damage that a single individual can cause by rented a botnet with his bitcoins.
The botnet's that run the DDoS on MtGox are probably payed via bitcoin by someone who spectulates on the price changes that the DDoS attacks cause.
DDoS attacks are cheap. You don't need to be a nation state to run a DDoS. You just need to pay a small sum of money to rent a botnet.
But back to a nation state attacking bitcoin, cyber attacks aren't needed. The US could simply start suing all bitcoin miners for facilitating money laundering and violating the principle of know-your-customer.
Announcing such law suits would alone do a lot more damage to bitcoins price than the DDoS attacks against exchanges. If current laws aren't enough congress can always pass additional laws.
The world doesn't look the way it would if the US government would make an attempt to shut down bitcoin. The US government isn't filled with the smartest people but if those people would go after bitcoin they could still do serious damage. Damages that exceed the damage that a single individual can cause by rented a botnet with his bitcoins.
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Governments operate on the theory of plausible denial ability, so no one is going to see any "proof".
Actually the US is perfectly able to attack other groups without any plausible denial ability. LOL
Asking a government to stay out? GFL. If they really wanted to, they'll simply use the "terrorism" clause and push their agenda that way. After all, we all signed over our freedoms for the battle of "terrorism". It works like this: stop believing the government has any power, and they'll cease to have power. If you believe Bitcoin is right, you don't need a higher authority to authenticate your belief, not God, nor man. Asking them "please, please stop bothering us!" with a petition is just advocating the state as something which has power.
Asking a government to stay out? GFL. If they really wanted to, they'll simply use the "terrorism" clause and push their agenda that way. After all, we all signed over our freedoms for the battle of "terrorism". It works like this: stop believing the government has any power, and they'll cease to have power. If you believe Bitcoin is right, you don't need a higher authority to authenticate your belief, not God, nor man. Asking them "please, please stop bothering us!" with a petition is just advocating the state as something which has power.
+1
When you realize that you are being targetted by a conspiracy, you don't start complaining to the world, you start a larger conspiracy yourself.
I saw this comment Tech Crunch this morning:
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Bitcoin was created by a special team at the Treasury called "Stack Hunt". The project began in 2006 after an internal report on illicit online transactions generated significant concern within the highest levels of the US government. "Stack Hunt" tracks every coin and uses complex statistical analytics to uncover the identities of persons using Bitcoins.
The code is freely available to see, check it yourself for any reporting engines. Every transaction can be viewed in real time. The entire network can be seen transparently. I cannot deny that "stack hunt" exists or existed. Plus this information itself comes from a random comment on some forum somewhere, it can hardly be taken as hard evidence that Bitcoin is some kind of Government op. Aside all that, why would a totalitarian style government introduce a system that give them less control and not more.
If they wanted a universal currency, it would be under their direct control. Bitcoin goes against every system like that.
A petition is useless at this point, if they want to undermine Bitcoin they will, or will try if it screws with their own agendas. If Bitcoin comes under harsh regulated laws, we will then know what their stance is. If it does, we then know they actually fear Bitcoin as a direct threat to their financial powerbase.
When you realize that you are being targetted by a conspiracy, you don't start complaining to the world, you start a larger conspiracy yourself.
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If i thought a silly petition like this was worth arguing over debating I would have done so.
Just to be clear: I think the petition is silly too, but the idea the government would attack bitcoin is very plausible, especially with all the media momentum it had garnered since Cyprus. Like I said above, good luck finding proof; so by definition it IS a "conspiracy theory", but so was the Gulf of Tonkin incident until recently.
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On a side note.... why do people in America think everything revolves around America and the American government.
1) The American government has shown little to no intent on messing with bitcoin aside from a few politicians who wanted the silk road banned. In fact it's been the opposite, the government has recently provided some groundwork for exchanges to follow, showing more of an acceptance to bitcoin then a desire to shut it down.
1) The American government has shown little to no intent on messing with bitcoin aside from a few politicians who wanted the silk road banned. In fact it's been the opposite, the government has recently provided some groundwork for exchanges to follow, showing more of an acceptance to bitcoin then a desire to shut it down.
It's because the greenback is the reserve currency for the world. If countries start loosing faith in the dollar, then the US Government is going to be in an even bigger pickle then they are now--it's a matter of national security. The whole petrodollar thing first shocked me when I learned about it, but then it became so clear why we fight some of these stupid wars. It's not just about the oil and the military contractors, but about the fact we make countries accept only dollars for their oil. Imagine how much less the dollar would be worth if it wasn't mandated for OPEC countries? It's all about keeping federal reserve notes as the worlds reserve currency.
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2) If there was a government that wanted to shut down Bitcoin by diong DDOS I can think of quite a few more countries who would be a more likely culprit than America. China for example is the exact type of government that would HATE bitcoin and they also have the power to carry out a massive DDOS.
While China does posses substantial cyber threats, the US about 3 months ago activated 3,000 offensive "cyber warriors". You bet your ass they have some serious DDoSing servers ready to go all around the world at a moments notice. Bitcoin adoption in China per capita is very low compared to the US.
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Who in their right mind would accuse the government of interfering without solid proof?
Governments operate on the theory of plausible denial ability, so no one is going to see any "proof". You realize the CIA employs "economic hitmen" that take down whole countries, right? Bitcoin would be joke in comparison.
Silly waste of time the petition, does more harm than good.
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I think the question we should be asking is who had the most to gain by pumping and dumping (seems like "someone" really threw down a lot of fiat about 3 days before the "correction"). Also, who has the vast media influence to make the crash virtually front page news in most major publications around the world in short order?
Instead we have this petition.
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It's kind-of like the cops finding no "solid proof" on a cheating, alcoholic, wife abusing husband when his wife comes up dead.
The government is not Bitcoin's husband. A husband has no plausible deniability and they are suspect #1. What's your point?
On a side note.... why do people in America think everything revolves around America and the American government.
1) The American government has shown little to no intent on messing with bitcoin aside from a few politicians who wanted the silk road banned. In fact it's been the opposite, the government has recently provided some groundwork for exchanges to follow, showing more of an acceptance to bitcoin then a desire to shut it down.
2) If there was a government that wanted to shut down Bitcoin by diong DDOS I can think of quite a few more countries who would be a more likely culprit than America. China for example is the exact type of government that would HATE bitcoin and they also have the power to carry out a massive DDOS.
1) The American government has shown little to no intent on messing with bitcoin aside from a few politicians who wanted the silk road banned. In fact it's been the opposite, the government has recently provided some groundwork for exchanges to follow, showing more of an acceptance to bitcoin then a desire to shut it down.
2) If there was a government that wanted to shut down Bitcoin by diong DDOS I can think of quite a few more countries who would be a more likely culprit than America. China for example is the exact type of government that would HATE bitcoin and they also have the power to carry out a massive DDOS.
I love it when people can't even bother to mount a written ad hominem attack and go staight for a stupid picture without even one shread of thought or argument.
If i thought a silly petition like this was worth arguing over debating I would have done so. I didn't think it was though so I just posted a funny picture.
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Who in their right mind would accuse the government of interfering without solid proof?
Governments operate on the theory of plausible denial ability, so no one is going to see any "proof". You realize the CIA employs "economic hitmen" that take down whole countries, right? Bitcoin would be joke in comparison.
You don't mess with the
I think the question we should be asking is who had the most to gain by pumping and dumping (seems like "someone" really threw down a lot of fiat about 3 days before the "correction"). Also, who has the vast media influence to make the crash virtually front page news in most major publications around the world in short order?
It's kind-of like the cops finding no "solid proof" on a cheating, alcoholic, wife abusing husband when his wife comes up dead.
I'm actually quite suprised there hasn't been any posts about this. It's funny, the day before the recent "crash" I read an article somewhere about how the Government was going to do exactly what the OP of that petition wrote. Honestly tho, it makes total sense. We had a huge jump from 140-190, then 240... Somone spent a lot of fiat to blow this thing up, and the coordinated news stories are just too damn "coincidental" to believe. They don't mention that on the whole bitcoin is up A LOT on the year, even after the "crash".
Let's not pretend that bitcoin doesn't pose a huge threat to TPTB, and trying to stomp it out before it even starts is just a no brainer. They'll do it again too...
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
read the rest here: https://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/how-the-looming-bitcoin-crash-will-be-exploited-by-globalists-to-outlaw-decentralized-crypto-currencies/
Let's not pretend that bitcoin doesn't pose a huge threat to TPTB, and trying to stomp it out before it even starts is just a no brainer. They'll do it again too...
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
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04/10/2013
The Plot to Criminalize Bitcoin
How do you criminalize bitcoin? The same way you get guns banned: Plan an attack, make sure lots of people get hurt, roll out all the victims in front of the cameras, then use the sob stories as moral justification to crack down with oppressive new laws.
This is the agenda being planned right now with bitcoin. The recipe works like this:
Step 1) Central banks buy up massive quantities of bitcoin currency, driving the prices into the stratosphere and encouraging millions of people around the world to jump on board the “get rich” bandwagon.
Step 2) Once bitcoin valuations reach a sufficient level of insanity, start a massive selloff by dumping the bitcoins you already bought onto the market, offering them for sale at any price (i.e. sell into falling prices, accelerating the loss in valuations).
Step 3) Watch panic take hold as the bitcoin crash accelerates, ending in a catastrophic wipeout of “valuation” of all bitcoins.
Step 4) Find “victims” of the bitcoin crash who can tell a good sob story for the mainstream media about how they invested little Johnny’s college money in bitcoin and lost it all. Roll them out on CNN and MSNBC where they cry on camera and talk about how they were ripped off by bitcoin and now they only trust the government from now on.
Step 5) Demonize bitcoin by characterizing it as a “libertarian pyramid scheme.” Lash out against both decentralized currencies and libertarians.
Step 6) Once the demonization gains traction, have traitors in the U.S. Congress announce a “Consumer Currency Protection Act” that outlaws non-central bank currencies such as bitcoin. It’s all “for your safety,” of course. Shut down all online bitcoin wallets and exchanges, calling them “criminal pyramid schemes” and arrest a few people using bitcoin to send a warning message to the rest.
Mission accomplished! You’ve now made bitcoin look like a “pyramid scheme,” you’ve scared the public into being wary of “anti-government currencies,” and you’ve criminalized their use by consumers.
The Plot to Criminalize Bitcoin
How do you criminalize bitcoin? The same way you get guns banned: Plan an attack, make sure lots of people get hurt, roll out all the victims in front of the cameras, then use the sob stories as moral justification to crack down with oppressive new laws.
This is the agenda being planned right now with bitcoin. The recipe works like this:
Step 1) Central banks buy up massive quantities of bitcoin currency, driving the prices into the stratosphere and encouraging millions of people around the world to jump on board the “get rich” bandwagon.
Step 2) Once bitcoin valuations reach a sufficient level of insanity, start a massive selloff by dumping the bitcoins you already bought onto the market, offering them for sale at any price (i.e. sell into falling prices, accelerating the loss in valuations).
Step 3) Watch panic take hold as the bitcoin crash accelerates, ending in a catastrophic wipeout of “valuation” of all bitcoins.
Step 4) Find “victims” of the bitcoin crash who can tell a good sob story for the mainstream media about how they invested little Johnny’s college money in bitcoin and lost it all. Roll them out on CNN and MSNBC where they cry on camera and talk about how they were ripped off by bitcoin and now they only trust the government from now on.
Step 5) Demonize bitcoin by characterizing it as a “libertarian pyramid scheme.” Lash out against both decentralized currencies and libertarians.
Step 6) Once the demonization gains traction, have traitors in the U.S. Congress announce a “Consumer Currency Protection Act” that outlaws non-central bank currencies such as bitcoin. It’s all “for your safety,” of course. Shut down all online bitcoin wallets and exchanges, calling them “criminal pyramid schemes” and arrest a few people using bitcoin to send a warning message to the rest.
Mission accomplished! You’ve now made bitcoin look like a “pyramid scheme,” you’ve scared the public into being wary of “anti-government currencies,” and you’ve criminalized their use by consumers.
read the rest here: https://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/04/10/how-the-looming-bitcoin-crash-will-be-exploited-by-globalists-to-outlaw-decentralized-crypto-currencies/
Sounds pretty solid, of course they could do this in a more cheaper/simple way. Just plan another shooting, the gun was bought using bitcoins, "anti-terrorist" laws etc.
Oh! Bitcoin already has a negative image in general press. Who in their right mind would accuse the government of interfering without solid proof?
And: Mt Gox is fair game to US because it based in outside of US.
Can the owner take the petition down or change it to something positive? (Just hopin' they're reading)
Instead make a petition to request comment on the legality.
-SZ
And: Mt Gox is fair game to US because it based in outside of US.
Can the owner take the petition down or change it to something positive? (Just hopin' they're reading)
Instead make a petition to request comment on the legality.
-SZ
I love it when people can't even bother to mount a written ad hominem attack and go staight for a stupid picture without even one shread of thought or argument.
I found it effective.
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