Bitcoin = political? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Snoop Dogg

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on August 05, 2014, 06:39:04 AM

Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on August 05, 2014, 06:05:42 AM

Im not sure i agree actually i still find it neutral and just technology. If a political system did shift to say libertarian the word libertarian changes meaning.

Satoshi would disagree with you:

"[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though." - Satoshi Nakamoto

His personal politics are inconsequential however, its the design of the protocol that matters and its effects upon society. If Bitcoin was indeed manipulated by governments to become more politically controllable than you have essentially just forked Bitcoin and created an alt. If Bitcoin is changed from its originally design specifications at a fundamental level than we can hardly call it Bitcoin anymore and doing so is an act of manipulative propaganda.

maybe thiswill be one manipulating biggest on internet . but bitcoin will amazing if they got accepted for interrnet currency . it will be really high price.

Possum577

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Loose lips sink sigs!

Quote from: Polycoin on August 04, 2014, 03:28:12 PM

Bitcoin is controlled by the 7 tribes of the northeast quadrant in Southwest Hong Kong in EastWest China.

Of course, but are they Democrat or Repbulican? Whig or Labour? ha ha

Possum577

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Loose lips sink sigs!

Bitcoin can embody any political beliefs that one applies to them but it doesn't represent one political ideology. It can't, it doesn't have beliefs it's just a method for trade.

Anyone comparing it to libertarian-ism may be confusing the act of capitalism with the method (or currency) through which the capitalism is facilitated.

elliwilli

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et rich or die tryi

I don't think that the original COP for bitcoin and the first intentions of it were in fact political.
I think that it evolved political meaning and intentions near the start as it was first picked up y crypto-anarchists and the like who are libertarian.
I think bitcoin has since become a political object and ideology due to its main users being liberal to some extent.

raganius

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Quote from: Este Nuno on August 05, 2014, 01:47:26 PM

Quote from: raganius on August 05, 2014, 01:19:03 PM

Quote from: 1K on August 04, 2014, 03:06:36 PM

What does it matter what Satoshi intended it to be? It is what it is and the people will use it as they wish. Nobody can stop it now.

Very true. Satoshi (whoever he is) does not own Bitcoin.

With the amount that he mined he's may not own it but he definitely has the ability to bring it to its knees if he wanted to. Wink

true... but still, I count with the possibility that he has lost access to those PrivKeys Wink

beetcoin

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why does OP think libertarian is not a political faction? it is one. a definition of politics is "having a policy or system of government." libertarianism is a policy, or world view of how "government" should or shouldn't function. libertarian and politics are not mutually exclusive.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: raganius on August 05, 2014, 01:19:03 PM

Quote from: 1K on August 04, 2014, 03:06:36 PM

What does it matter what Satoshi intended it to be? It is what it is and the people will use it as they wish. Nobody can stop it now.

Very true. Satoshi (whoever he is) does not own Bitcoin.

With the amount that he mined he's may not own it but he definitely has the ability to bring it to its knees if he wanted to. Wink

raganius

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Quote from: 1K on August 04, 2014, 03:06:36 PM

What does it matter what Satoshi intended it to be? It is what it is and the people will use it as they wish. Nobody can stop it now.

Very true. Satoshi (whoever he is) does not own Bitcoin.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on August 04, 2014, 03:56:32 PM

calling it libertarian is like calling a vacuum cleaner an anarcho syndicalist

Vacuum cleaners are actually Socialist as they are very efficient at consuming all loose coin from your home to dispose in the trash and generally suck when used in everyday life.

btcxyzzz

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Monero - secure, private and untraceable currency.

Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on August 04, 2014, 03:56:32 PM

BTC has no political ideology, calling it libertarian is like calling a vacuum cleaner an anarcho syndicalist

BTC is pure political ideology. It's actually the first real money on Earth.

QuestionAuthority

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You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Humans will make everything including milk and ice cream political.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: inBitweTrust on August 05, 2014, 09:22:36 AM

Quote from: Este Nuno on August 05, 2014, 09:13:32 AM

Bitcoin is attractive to libertarians.

.... because of the inherent design principles of the protocol.

Why didn't Satoshi discuss the value of the bitcoin framework to socialists, communists, representative governments? Why did he only mention libertarianism and show extreme distrust with governments?

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own." - Satoshi Nakamoto

“We don’t want to lead with 'anonymous.' I am definitely not making any such taunt or assertion [that] 'The developers expect that this will result in a stable-with-respect-to-energy currency outside the reach of any government.'"- Satoshi Nakamoto

Wanting fair money or wanting to invent a revolutionary currency is enough on it's own and doesn't imply any specific political agenda. You can still be a socialist, communist, or believe in representative government and see the value in Bitcoin. It's not exclusive. I think everyone distrusts most modern governments regardless of what political ideology you believe in.

Even a hardcore Marxist would agree with Satoshi's statements that you quoted. All his quotes are simply stating facts. And if you read into them more he's clearly trying to avoid identifying Bitcoin with any one particular political ideology.

He might have been a libertarian. He probably was. But he definitely took care not to bog down his project with unnecessary political association.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Este Nuno on August 05, 2014, 09:13:32 AM

Bitcoin is attractive to libertarians.

.... because of the inherent design principles of the protocol.

Why didn't Satoshi discuss the value of the bitcoin framework to socialists, communists, representative governments? Why did he only mention libertarianism and show extreme distrust with governments?

"Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years. Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own." - Satoshi Nakamoto

“We don’t want to lead with 'anonymous.' I am definitely not making any such taunt or assertion [that] 'The developers expect that this will result in a stable-with-respect-to-energy currency outside the reach of any government.'"- Satoshi Nakamoto

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: inBitweTrust on August 05, 2014, 06:39:04 AM

Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on August 05, 2014, 06:05:42 AM

Im not sure i agree actually i still find it neutral and just technology. If a political system did shift to say libertarian the word libertarian changes meaning.

Satoshi would disagree with you:

"[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though." - Satoshi Nakamoto

His personal politics are inconsequential however, its the design of the protocol that matters and its effects upon society. If Bitcoin was indeed manipulated by governments to become more politically controllable than you have essentially just forked Bitcoin and created an alt. If Bitcoin is changed from its originally design specifications at a fundamental level than we can hardly call it Bitcoin anymore and doing so is an act of manipulative propaganda.

Satoshi's statement there gives us no information other than what we already know: Bitcoin is attractive to libertarians.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on August 05, 2014, 06:05:42 AM

Im not sure i agree actually i still find it neutral and just technology. If a political system did shift to say libertarian the word libertarian changes meaning.

Satoshi would disagree with you:

"[Bitcoin is] very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code than with words though." - Satoshi Nakamoto

His personal politics are inconsequential however, its the design of the protocol that matters and its effects upon society. If Bitcoin was indeed manipulated by governments to become more politically controllable than you have essentially just forked Bitcoin and created an alt. If Bitcoin is changed from its originally design specifications at a fundamental level than we can hardly call it Bitcoin anymore and doing so is an act of manipulative propaganda.

BitCoinNutJob

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Quote from: FUR11 on August 04, 2014, 03:59:28 PM

Quote from: BitCoinNutJob on August 04, 2014, 03:56:32 PM

BTC has no political ideology, calling it libertarian is like calling a vacuum cleaner an anarcho syndicalist

Well, it has some aspects that could make it more suitable for one political direction than the other. One of the most striking things would be that you can't influence the market or the economy by printing new currency units. I think it is a fact, that Bitcoin is better suited for a libertarian market than, say, a socialist one.

Im not sure i agree actually i still find it neutral and just technology. If a political system did shift to say libertarian the word libertarian changes meaning.

A highly socialist society could still come up with very creative ways to "control" bitcoin and at that point libertarians could be campaigning everyone should stop using bitcoin.

The invention of bitcoin has highlighted fiat currency as a limited design yet still a powerful tool currently.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Este Nuno on August 05, 2014, 04:42:51 AM

That's reaching a bit. All the research that Bitcoin was based upon was not necessarily done by anarchists. Wanting to make 'fair money' doesn't automatically translate in to anarchism.

This is where the confusion lies. Honest and fair money does indeed translate to an Anarchist/Agorist framework. Can you name me one other political framework that doesn't use violence and coercion under a non-voluntary social contract as a means to establish their political structure?

Not only does the cipher punk history show Bitcoin was developed mainly by libertarians/anarchists but the intrinsic properties within Bitcoin are voluntarist/agorist by design.

Governments of any political persuasion can use Bitcoin but the inherent nature of the technology makes collecting taxes and imposing regulation difficult to do if not practically unfeasible.

Este Nuno

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amarha

Quote from: inBitweTrust on August 04, 2014, 10:09:20 PM

Bitcoin as a protocol is indifferent what your political beliefs are, but is designed by anarchists for anarchist purposes.

That's reaching a bit. All the research that Bitcoin was based upon was not necessarily done by anarchists. Wanting to make 'fair money' doesn't automatically translate in to anarchism.

inBitweTrust

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A historical perspective of how Bitcoin was born from anarchists/cipher punks and designed specifically for political reasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPY-5SR-jPQ

Bitcoin as a protocol is indifferent what your political beliefs are, but is designed by anarchists for anarchist purposes.

1MCoin

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it doesn't seem like there were political intentions

Topic: Bitcoin = political? (Read 2090 times)