Topic: Bitcoin Ponzi scheme or not - page 2. (Read 4036 times)

K, whatever. I made my point. Have you already corrected your poll vote? Now, repeat after me: "Bitcoin is not a Ponzi scheme"...

There's been a surge of legitimate bitcoin adoption in the last year according to the figures.

I love the technology and I know it will survive so I don't even think there is a sinking ship to worry about

Someone did a study and the overwhelming majority of transactions were for legitimate purposes.

People are investing millions in bitcoin startups and infrastructure now precisely because it has shrug off the "dark net" associations you refer to. That was a big issue maybe 2 years ago but not anymore.

The negative press doesn't mention that over a 2 year period bitcoin has probably been the best investment on the planet. Sure it's hard a hard year. Nothing's perfect I don't have rose colored glasses I've just seen it all before, and I know that right now bitcoin is still maturing at a phenomenal rate considering the newness of the tech. People were saying bitcoin won't go anywhere when it was worth $1 and people are still saying it now. Nothing's changed in that department

There are also decentralized exchange solutions like XCP that don't rely on a centralized exchange. Ripple also has an interesting solution to this problem. Sure it's still new technology whoever doesn't think that is blind. But that also means it has a long way to go and considering it's age it's nothing short of phenomenal as far as new technologies go.

I also think the fact more and more people keep using and developing with bitcoin even with the hacks and scandals shows the real staying power of the idea of bitcoin. I see the glass half full you see it half empty that's all

If bitcoin ever did have the crash you refer to I would buy as many as possible that's for sure.

EDIT: I think I read somewhere that with current mining tech / costs it is not worth selling bitcoins for less than $200 so I would be very suprised if it did go sub 200. If there was a big shrug off of mining infrastructure as a result of sub $200 coins I would be buying a lot. Bitcoin would be back if that ever happened. But people will refuse to sell for less than $200 and I find it extremely unlikely. It is a black swan event (highly unlikely catastrophic scenario).

I only have other opinion than you, libertarian. chill !

You said "wallets started with some coins in it then bitcoins would not be sound money" then it was created to bring profit right? Good. that means this "legendary" person, SN(who can be a kind from Ukraine or Abu Abas from Libya) pocked some millions of Bitcoin, waiting to raise its value and then he sold. it seems fair

you, as a little bunny that you are, are thinking that someone wants you to get rich overnight and he created a monetary system where everybody will be a Trump with many patootles  ) pffff.
Please do not smoke so much...

 You are part of the craptocoins hoarders wait for the dust to settle and noobs to be encouraged once more into buying as the price is stable and then repeat the dump and crash several times more.

Riiiiight, because you didn't get a handwritten invitation to participate you think you've been buttfucked without lube. Paper went public 2 months before the genesis block dumbass.

Of course I am, because an speculative bubble and a Ponzi scheme are not the same thing. Like, at all.



At the time Nakamoto pocketed his million coins he didn't laugh because guess what: they weren't worth a damned piece of shit. The only thing he did was launch an open experiment of a new kind of sound, digital money. He published a paper explaining how it all worked. He released the node's code. You could talk to him, spot bugs, send him patches. You could mine for worthless coins. At this stage just a handful of crypto-anarchists played with them as if they were exchanging peas or little river stones with each other. During roughly these first 2 years they were worth ZILCH, you can check it yourself. After all this time the coins started to gain some slight value due to sheer public interest, but before this point you could get a shitload of 'em for free using your crappy computer's CPU or simply asking "pretty please".

I don't know if he actually envisioned any of this and I guess we'll never know, but he was clearly not "premining valuable coins to dump them to idiots on day 1". Of course, this is actually the case of most other altcoins, whose creators just prey on fresh get-rich-quick fools who feel like they missed the Bitcoin train.







Why? Because SN was a God-like creature and not a dumbass troll as you are, that's why. If all wallets started with some coins in it then bitcoins would not be sound money and they'd still be worth nothing 6 years on (if they still existed at all). Alternatively, if only the X first wallets had coins in it then early adopters could have just created lots of them an claim most coins either way. Not that you can't create such an altcoin if you feel so inclined...

For every arbitrary youtube vid/article you quote in your one-sided shill argument, I could quote another 10 negative articles outlining why this is no more than a speculative bubble that will soon collapse.

Look.  I'm not doubting that the bitcoin fundamentals were quite impressive.  In an 'idealistic' society, it would have flourished 10-100 fold by now, and perhaps been the next 'tablet computer' of payment processing.

However, majority of the technology fell into the wrong hands, casting a negative cloud over it that could not and cannot be remedied.

Every single one of the biggest and supposedly most trusted exchanges all go down due to hacks/scams...new coin ipo scams galore, and basically every other perspective new start up involving some form of scamming in one way or another.

Then there's Silkroad 1 and 2. 

I'm not even going to include the amount of p2p scamming that goes on on an individual basis on forums either. 

With all this negative press, do you think any new large scale corporations are going to actually spend time and money to implement it? Come on dude, this is common sense.  Take off your rose colored blinders.  Without new adoption...it's going nowhere...unless you're happy with just trading worthless coins to joe bloe in India like hoarding Farmville money...maybe that's your thing.

You're in denial man.  It's a burning/sinking ship..and it will take you down with it.  So be it though.  So long as you're 'happy' with the fundamentals, it shouldn't matter if you lose every penny you spent, amirite? That's a great way of looking at things though  

are you happy if I use "speculative bubble or collective delusion"  instead of ponzi?

Bitcoin foundation is the key and its founder, Satoshi Nakamoto, who is estimated to have mined 1 million bitcoins in the currency’s early days. His stash is spread across many wallets. He pocketed the early bitcoins and laughed.. ha ha ha

47 individuals own 28.9% of the approximately 12 million Bitcoins in existence so far. Another 880 own 21.5%, meaning 927 people control half of the entire market cap of the digital currency. Another 10,000 individuals control about a quarter.

And the rest  (around a million) get the crumbs (700,000 are out of circulation, whether through government seizure or people losing their passwords).  

So, you are not so many people. around of 1 mil all together. With all your propaganda, advertising and many other things ONLY 1 mil. people. I think Zeek Rewards had more members without any conference and media )

Question: why didn't the Bitcoin foundation gave to any Bitcoin wallet a fix amount of bitcoins at the time they started this ....project? why do you need the fiat currency if you say that it's so bad?

Lol, true that. In this light it really sounds like an awful proposition  

Stock market IPOs are actually a 100% premine in fiat   So far cryptocurrency is the only radically alternative wealth distribution model that has worked.

Lol. A jug of fresh, drinkable water has more "intrinsic value" than a ton of printed paper  



Let me ask you a question. Do you think that stocks are Ponzi scams? What about IPOs, where the owners can "easily mine approx 1/3rd of the total potential supply before going public"?

Why should anyone listen to you? You have demonstrated that you don't know what a Ponzi scheme is, you don't know what "intrinsic value" means, and you really don't know very much about Bitcoin. What do you know about? Maybe you should stick to that.

New investors do not pay off old investors to enter bitcoin, therefore it is not a ponzi scheme.

Something like the U.S. Social Security retirement program is a ponzi scheme.

The first bitcoin developer Satoshi himself has barely touched his mined coins. So that doesn't really support your theory ...

The bitcoin ecosystem, as a decentralized phenomenon has grown organically over time.

I would say the growth of bitcoin can be seen as a process of emergence from complex adaptive systems theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

"Goldstein initially defined emergence as: "the arising of novel and coherent structures (e.g bitcoin), patterns (e.g blockchain) and properties (e.g uses of bitcoin and blockchain) during the process of self-organization (e.g growth of mining and bitcoin ecosystem) in complex systems (e.g internet and technological change)".

That's the truth but greed and a quick buck/BTC is worth the crazy risk.

That greed is seen by the people who want to use Bitcoin to get rich quick but it's definitely not a ponzi scheme

I don't understand how it could be a ponzi?  From what I understand about Ponzi's isn't it when you get people to invest, and pay people back with the invested money from other people?

On top of that, I don't understand why people like to do Ponzi's, they don't gain anything from them?  Technically speaking if they give back all of the money they invested to the early people, they don't gain anything from it.  Most of the time I realize they probably steal money from people but an honest ponzi the owner wouldn't make a dime.

the paper money have intrinsic value. your gov give value,the assets, the whole economy is based on the paper money.

Who gives value to Bitcoin? Propaganda and the new fools.

Bitcoin is developed allowing the creator and his friends to easily mine approx 1/3rd of the total potential supply before going public.
Bitcoin start trading and immediately jump in price due to limited supply.
Many fools jump on the bandwagon buying expensive hardware to mine  given the high price per BTC.

Many websites appear that add the tag exchanges to them to give the air of authority that suck in entrants by producing graphs and data that gives the illusion of rising prices and volume of trading when in reality they are nothing more than Ponzi scams

That goes for anything. What's so fucking hilarious is that people think scraps of paper have innate value.

you should ask yourself who are those who are controlling Bitcoin. Make 1 BTC = 1 USD and nobody will use it. I know it has started from almost zero but these days are gone now.

The only thing that it gives Bitcoin value, it is the perception.

Someone owns "coins" and he wants that this Bitcoin to have value in order to sell it for USD.   it's very simple.

There is a gang who is controlling the system even it's saying it is decentralized

Bistamp is related with Ripple, Bitcoin Foundation and others. Their shareholders are shareholders for many other bitcoin companies.

i think they will cover the loss because the scandal will be TOO BIG and it will involve all these companies and Bitcoin will crush.

So, they are a gang who is manipulating the market how they want and each of them are taking a piece of the cake named Bitcoin.
Proofs are everywhere : fake transactions, bitcoin price is given by few companies who are controlled by the same people.

Bitfinex, Coinbase + other many small exchangers are related with Bitstamp. Bitstamp is processing their orders.

You must be blind to not see these facts OR you don't want to see because you take advantage of this situation.

Why do you need new comers and why all this buzz in media if you don't really need new comers with new funds?

I agree that far too many people are spending too much time worrying about the price. Whether a bitcoin is worth $1 or $1000, it works the same way.

But, I would like to address the "created out of thin air" issue that people like to bring up. The fact is that all money is created out of thin air -- even gold. The difference between Bitcoin (and gold) and fiat currencies is that while they are all "created out thin air", the supply of bitcoins is not unlimited. This is an important advantage because the the value of a bitcoin cannot be diluted to nothing, unlike fiat currencies.

Sorry, LaudaM. If I gotta bust kingcolex's chops for advertising a Ponzi in their sig, I gotta bust yours too. Have you really looked into the GawMiners empire that you are shilling, or do you really value your credibility that lowly?