Bitcoin price Manipulation, the impact of Bitcoin SV.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: cellard on December 11, 2018, 11:11:29 AM

Well I think Roger Ver has broken several laws with some of the things he has done. For starters, why the hell did he allocate hashrate from his bitcoin dot com cloud mining contracts into the BCash ABC chain without asking for permission if the people that where hiring the hashrate to mine BTC wanted to switch from BTC to BCHABC? I can't believe he actually did that with a straight face, it is insanity.

you got a source/link? i never heard anything like that. i did a quick google search, but nothing popped up. if he really diverted their hash power and didn't refund/compensate them, that definitely seems like grounds for legal damages.

Quote from: cellard on December 11, 2018, 11:11:29 AM

Not to mention the fact that he confused a lot of people with the wallets being bcash and not Bitcoin and coins being lost, but the hashrate allocation thing was ridiculous. He also proved ABC is centralized due the arbitrary checkpoints, and they used to cry about Bitcoin development being centralized.

i heard both sides implemented checkpoints, which seems to render the whole "hash war" thing a moot point. was it only the ABC side?

South Park

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Quote from: thecodebear on December 06, 2018, 05:04:53 PM

I wouldn't mind if that split just spells the end for both of them. That whole BCH community is so toxic. Pretending like BCH is Bitcoin and whatnot. Even the BCH developer who recently wrote an article about how BCH devs screwed their blockchain with bad choices in the wake of the split pretended that BSV is Bitcoin. I have a few BCH but I wouldn't mind losing that money and seeing both BCH offshoots shrink to nothing - and seeing that charlatan Ver lose much of his crypto riches would be hilarious, dude is a plague on the crypto space.

That is what really bothers me as well, if they want to create as many of those fake copies of bitcoin then they are free to do it, but they are trying to make it seem as if their coins are the original bitcoin when it is obvious it is not, this only creates even more confusion among those that would like to invest in the market so if both coins disappeared I will be very happy about that.

cellard

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Quote from: 1Referee on December 09, 2018, 02:13:17 PM

Quote from: cellard on December 09, 2018, 12:37:47 PM

The net result is a clear one: Bitcoin wins. An example is set for those that go into a fork picnic: Bankruptcy awaits.

Bitcoin had nothing to lose in the first place, so there hasn't been anything that made it win. It was well expected that a split would happen, because nChain and CoinGeek have a roadmap in mind that doesn't align with anyone other than their own minions. It was also expected that ABC would shift over hashrate from BTC to its own silly chain to protect what's left of its economical incentives. Very predictable behavior from fraudsters.

I'm sure that Roger will come out just fine, because he has never been someone that bothered to care about bear markets where prices tank badly. Bitmain on the other hand can say goodbye to its IPO. It hasn't only lost the far majority of value when it comes to the coins that it holds, but it is also close to present the world horrible business reports due to the bear market.

Well I think Roger Ver has broken several laws with some of the things he has done. For starters, why the hell did he allocate hashrate from his bitcoin dot com cloud mining contracts into the BCash ABC chain without asking for permission if the people that where hiring the hashrate to mine BTC wanted to switch from BTC to BCHABC? I can't believe he actually did that with a straight face, it is insanity.

Not to mention the fact that he confused a lot of people with the wallets being bcash and not Bitcoin and coins being lost, but the hashrate allocation thing was ridiculous. He also proved ABC is centralized due the arbitrary checkpoints, and they used to cry about Bitcoin development being centralized.

Calvin and Craig probably ran out of money to keep attacking ABC while mining their own coin so they released that press release which to me it just sounds like a waving whit flag.

Net result is both forks lost and BCH holders are losing money (actual money measured in BTC).

rickadone

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I don't think what happened was a "manipulation" but more like a crazy person doing silly stuff to promote his own coin. Obviously, Craig is a lunatic but is he a stupid lunatic or a smart lunatic we can't really tell, no one can really tell the difference on both of those things but him trying to write Arabic after the hacked satoshi account wrote in Arabic was a pity mistake that showed how idiotic he could be so I doubt he has enough mind to "manipulate" the market himself. He just sold a bunch of coins (tens of thousands of coins to be exact) which affected the market badly for all of us and dropped the price since there was not enough buyers at the time.

Ever since those times people have been selling because they want to get out and there are not enough buyers to balance things out.

gentlemand

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 09, 2018, 11:03:08 PM

But that's shitcoins with tiny trading volumes, people who have confused bcash and Bitcoin are a small minority of Bitcoin traders, no way there's enough of them to justify going from $6,000 to $3,000 and staying here. I also don't buy the bot trading theory, because if it was true, then the market would be pumped and dumped on a daily basis, if bots can be so easily tricked.

I distinctly remember XEM going batty when it was XLM that had significant news. Both rose sharply while everything else was not doing very much and XEM itself had nothing much on the horizon. It didn't last too long but I couldn't think of any other explanation.

hatshepsut93

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Quote from: gentlemand on December 09, 2018, 06:05:36 PM

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 09, 2018, 05:58:19 PM

because it assumes that traders are illiterate and retarded.

Many of them are. I've seen coins with a similar ticker to another coin that received some major news pump as well until it tails off when enough people realise. And most of it these days is bot driven. If one moron starts a run the bots may well pile in.

But that's shitcoins with tiny trading volumes, people who have confused bcash and Bitcoin are a small minority of Bitcoin traders, no way there's enough of them to justify going from $6,000 to $3,000 and staying here. I also don't buy the bot trading theory, because if it was true, then the market would be pumped and dumped on a daily basis, if bots can be so easily tricked.

gentlemand

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Quote from: hatshepsut93 on December 09, 2018, 05:58:19 PM

because it assumes that traders are illiterate and retarded.

Many of them are. I've seen coins with a similar ticker to another coin that received some major news pump as well until it tails off when enough people realise. And most of it these days is bot driven. If one moron starts a run the bots may well pile in.

hatshepsut93

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I doubt that bcash markets have any serious influence over Bitcoin markets. The theory that people confuse both coins is just dumb, because it assumes that traders are illiterate and retarded. In fact, any drama in bcash world is bullish for Bitcoin, just like any other bad news for altcoins, especially those who claim to be "bitcoin killers". So, why would traders sell BTC because of bcash drama? The answer is, it's just a coincidence, and the price drop from $6,000 is a natural part of the bear market.

gentlemand

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Quote from: kryptqnick on December 09, 2018, 03:42:03 PM

I completely agree with you. I think that bitcoin getting below such a stable price barrier near $6k at the same time when news about this mad guy appeared cannot be a coincidence.

I think everyone and everything was looking for a direction. Our special friend Craig provided it. Everyone else followed through. If the price had sat at $6500 until it suddenly took off again a couple of years later, that would not have been normal behaviour.

Before this fall many absolute shitcoins were still crazily high. Now we're finally seeing some actual purging.

kryptqnick

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Quote from: hugeblack on December 06, 2018, 03:52:29 PM

I might be wrong but I think the main reason for all this manipulation is the result of the impact of BitcoinSV. I do not know what Craig Wright is doing, but his attempt to ruin BitcoinCash have worked.

I completely agree with you. I think that bitcoin getting below such a stable price barrier near $6k at the same time when news about this mad guy appeared cannot be a coincidence. Bitcoin Cash is almost dead (though it's not that obvious in the bear market and it's still above SV), Bitcoin Private is another useless clone (I get it that it is the original, but why did the bitcoin cash team didn't do it in the first place if they wanter authenticity so much?!), the market is generally down. You know that things are going bad when you see stable coins among the most successful performers Cheesy

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figmentofmyass

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Quote from: cellard on December 09, 2018, 12:37:47 PM

Craig Wright and Calvin Ayre have already capitulated:

https://coingeek.com/original-bitcoin-reborn-bitcoin-sv-bsv-bch-hash-war-ends/

They promised there wouldn't be a split. The reality is that there was a split, and a permanent one. They keep burning money. They will go bankrupt.

Same goes for Jihan and Roger Ver, stuck with massive BCHABC bags.

The net result is a clear one: Bitcoin wins. An example is set for those that go into a fork picnic: Bankruptcy awaits.

if bcash were a worthy competitor, perhaps, but the market spoke loud and clear about that ever since it was launched. when the ABC/SV split happened, bcash was only valued at 7% of BTC. it was already irrelevant. i don't see how bitcoin really benefits from shitcoins cannibalizing each other like this. if anything, miners like bitmain/ver and coingeek might sell BTC to fund their little wars. i think the way the media covered it also confused newer investors (bitcoin vs bitcoin cash).

rokkyroad

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Quote from: kumiskura on December 06, 2018, 06:25:24 PM

Personally the main reason behind this manipulation is not only because of Bitcoin SV nor Bitcoin ABC, but instead, it is all because of those shitcoins.
we have more than 1000 coins or even 10.000 coins right now.
it is too big for our current investor to handle it all if right now it is only 10 coins on our total market. the price will not go this down because the distribution is very wide. and the manipulator won't have this kind of power to pump and dump the price.

This is very true. We've always had shitcoins but etherium unleashed torrents of tokens and crooked ICOs. This served to dilute the market and those that got burned never returned. Had we concentrated on bitcoin god only knows what it would be worth today.

Unscrupulous, greedy, and power hungry folk are working hard to destroy world changing technology.

1Referee

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Quote from: cellard on December 09, 2018, 12:37:47 PM

The net result is a clear one: Bitcoin wins. An example is set for those that go into a fork picnic: Bankruptcy awaits.

Bitcoin had nothing to lose in the first place, so there hasn't been anything that made it win. It was well expected that a split would happen, because nChain and CoinGeek have a roadmap in mind that doesn't align with anyone other than their own minions. It was also expected that ABC would shift over hashrate from BTC to its own silly chain to protect what's left of its economical incentives. Very predictable behavior from fraudsters.

I'm sure that Roger will come out just fine, because he has never been someone that bothered to care about bear markets where prices tank badly. Bitmain on the other hand can say goodbye to its IPO. It hasn't only lost the far majority of value when it comes to the coins that it holds, but it is also close to present the world horrible business reports due to the bear market.

cellard

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Craig Wright and Calvin Ayre have already capitulated:

https://coingeek.com/original-bitcoin-reborn-bitcoin-sv-bsv-bch-hash-war-ends/

They promised there wouldn't be a split. The reality is that there was a split, and a permanent one. They keep burning money. They will go bankrupt.

Same goes for Jihan and Roger Ver, stuck with massive BCHABC bags.

The net result is a clear one: Bitcoin wins. An example is set for those that go into a fork picnic: Bankruptcy awaits.

Febo

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Quote from: hugeblack on December 06, 2018, 03:52:29 PM

I might be wrong but I think the main reason for all this manipulation is the result of the impact of BitcoinSV. I do not know what Craig Wright is doing, but his attempt to ruin BitcoinCash have worked.

He have lots of media power and he uses it. in last month or so he announced that most big altcoins will die in next year. I know for Monero he said end of 2019. That are attacks. Of course he is not that strong to make such price jumps, but it was about right time to find bottom. So not much push was needed.

gentlemand

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Quote from: BrewMaster on December 09, 2018, 09:13:11 AM

this is not the first time someone tried to take over bitcoin. it is just a new way of doing it. in the past there has been numerous attacks against bitcoin and there will be a lot more and as bitcoin grows the number of take over attempts will only increase.

The question of what form future fuckery will take intrigues me.

At some point, hopefully soon, the idea of doing it via another coin will be laughable and indeed it's very disappointing people are dim enough to follow it now.

There'll come a point where attempting the same thing will be like a flea trying to rugby tackle an elephant. It'll simply be ignored completely.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: thecodebear on December 06, 2018, 05:04:53 PM

I wouldn't mind if that split just spells the end for both of them. That whole BCH community is so toxic. Pretending like BCH is Bitcoin and whatnot. Even the BCH developer who recently wrote an article about how BCH devs screwed their blockchain with bad choices in the wake of the split pretended that BSV is Bitcoin. I have a few BCH but I wouldn't mind losing that money and seeing both BCH offshoots shrink to nothing - and seeing that charlatan Ver lose much of his crypto riches would be hilarious, dude is a plague on the crypto space.

this is not the first time someone tried to take over bitcoin. it is just a new way of doing it. in the past there has been numerous attacks against bitcoin and there will be a lot more and as bitcoin grows the number of take over attempts will only increase.

their split only increases the drama it won't kill either of them. simply because they are not some newbie created shitcoin! they are shitcoins backed by people with money and mining power and that keeps them alive and a nuisance.

Batelk

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Quote from: thecodebear on December 06, 2018, 05:04:53 PM

I wouldn't mind if that split just spells the end for both of them. That whole BCH community is so toxic. Pretending like BCH is Bitcoin and whatnot. Even the BCH developer who recently wrote an article about how BCH devs screwed their blockchain with bad choices in the wake of the split pretended that BSV is Bitcoin. I have a few BCH but I wouldn't mind losing that money and seeing both BCH offshoots shrink to nothing - and seeing that charlatan Ver lose much of his crypto riches would be hilarious, dude is a plague on the crypto space.

Only Craig Wright and Kevin Ayre said BSV is Bitcoin. Most of us do not agree.

Tytanowy Janusz

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6000 $ was weaker with every bounce. It was obvious that without gamechanging news we will break it sooner or later.

Quote from: Tytanowy Janusz on September 14, 2018, 09:45:46 AM

Quote from: Bardman on September 10, 2018, 05:12:11 AM

if the support area around 6000$ holds again this time, we will be in a really good position to actually break the lower highs, we would only need a 1000$~ move to break it for the first time in basically a year.

If the support will hold. If not we will see 4-5k few days later. Question is - will it hold?

In my opinion there is no chance to it to hold. If market will act normal we we see 6k break in next 2 weeks. Only good news can save BTC.
Support is weaker with every bounce. Why?
1- With second bounce traders were buying on 6k to profit till 12k. Now with resistance close to 6700 it might not be worth to take risk.
2- Those who bought in february, may, with every dip close to 6k are slowly getting into half year into position without any profit. They are slowly getting bored and are looking where to sell
3- Shorters know that braking 5,5-6k will dump market instantly to 4k (stoplosses, overlaveraged longs) - big short from whale is getting more profitable and less risky - it might be easier to earn for big whale shoring at 6k rather than buiying to sell at 6500
4- all willing to buy at 6k range already did. Now we are seeing only low volume speculation

Take a look at silver few years ago and how its end up.

Looks similar to BTC? 27$ support looks as strong as 6000$ for btc

Thats how it end showing bottom at 15$. We need good news to help this support. Otherwise we will see another support at 4-5k what will postopne next pump from december 2018 too december 2019.

It was obvious for every good trader. My post from september. Support acctualy holds longer than i thought and holded for 2 months not 2 weeks (we have smart whales that simply stops selling close to support to not break it - thats why we had so low volume). Without BCH SV war we would break it too. We just made it faster (like euthanasia).

When we first time hit 6k there were a loot of buyers. Huge buy volume pushed price up. Same was second time. On 15 min candles you could see how manny investors thought that 6k is extremely cheap. Each bounce after that was weaker. There was less buy strenght. Last 2 bounces was made without strong buyers. Strong sellers simply stops selling to avoid current situation.

Now 3800 looked strong. Again we had strong buyers thinking that 3800 is cheap but panic selling break them in 10 days. Now 3400 after bart formation looks good but not as strong as 3600 was. I guess we will again break it and maybe find stronger support at 3000 or 2500. For now we need to have hope that 3400 will hold long enough.

hugeblack

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Quote from: Pursuer on December 07, 2018, 03:33:27 AM

the subsequent drops, however, are because the market crashed and the bottom is not yet formed and the market is currently searching for that strong bottom and until it is found we may see the same weird thing happening.

I do not think we are looking for a bottom, but rather are attempts to weaken cryptocurrencies and inject power into a certain one. I do not know how long this will continue, but these attempts are to strengthen SV or by people who benefit from the strengthening of it.

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 07, 2018, 03:41:40 AM

but momentum looks to be waning. the on-balance volume on BCHSV doesn't look very healthy. it looks like it'll collapse pretty hard after all this propping and pumping.

I did not expect them to reach this stage. Yes, the momentum is diminishing, but BCH is weaker than ever. "lost 92%" and perhaps if they continue to do that, they will prevail.

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 07, 2018, 03:41:40 AM

$6000 just wasn't as strong as everyone thought.

Support was strong, but it was a high point of stability, not a minimum.

Quote from: kumiskura on December 06, 2018, 06:25:24 PM

Personally the main reason behind this manipulation is not only because of Bitcoin SV nor Bitcoin ABC, but instead, it is all because of those shitcoins.
we have more than 1000 coins or even 10.000 coins right now.

The number does not make a difference, no one can put a lot of force into the coin for a long time, yes we have 2000 coin but 99% value it zero.

Topic: Bitcoin price Manipulation, the impact of Bitcoin SV. (Read 498 times)