Topic: Bitcoin problems are pushing me to Dash ! Thanks Amanda Johnson (Read 6450 times)

Link to an astute analyst:

Wow, such a pleasant person.   

Keep taking your Info-wars Vitamins.  We need your brain power to Fight The Future!   

Problem with that design is that if the 15 masternodes on your partition stop functioning or censor you, you have no other options.

A blockchain either synchronizes between all nodes or it doesn't, with the commensurate tradeoff in unbounded permissionless or bounded permissioned. We can't have it both ways.

Maybe that's what they'll end up doing?

Bingo. And chain reorganizations can still reverse InstantX.

But I wasn't going to bother to slaughering InstantX at this time. Let the fools buy this and later let them stampede out...

I hope Roger Ver takes a huge illiquid position in Dash as the insiders buying from themselves might delude someone into doing.

Evan you better start cashing out now... (and selling out to greater fools such as Roger Ver)

In fact, the error in DASH's scheme is that ultimately, the transaction is still written on the block chain.  Instant X is nothing else but a kind of certified mem pool confirmation.  But if DASH hits the same bottleneck as bitcoin does, and there is a huge mem pool lag with miners picking only the most lucrative transactions out of the pool to make full blocks, your instant-X confirmed transaction may very well never end up on the block chain, just like with bitcoin.  

So what is the value of an instant-x confirmed transaction that ends up not being on the block chain ?

In fact, one should push the logic to the extreme, and not write transactions on the chain any more, but just balances.  If you trust that 15 random master nodes validate a transaction, one could just as well have them validate the new account states.  And then, there's not really a need for a block chain with transactions any more !  Only a shared ledger between masternodes.  You might still maintain a small block chain BETWEEN master nodes, where regular "states of accounts" get their hash registered (and only their hash).  But the master nodes maintain the balances (which are distributed on demand to the normal nodes, as well as the masternode block chain and the active mem pool, to verify that the latest balance has its hash on that chain, and that the current balance is the right "latest hash stamped balance" on which the mem pool transactions have been applied.  Say that every 12 hours, a "current balance" hash is produced by the master nodes, and written to the block chain.  So there are 2 entries A DAY on the current block chain.  That makes for a tiny chain, doesn't it !  There's the day's mempool worth of transactions which is shared by all nodes, and updated by the instant-X scheme of master nodes, and there's the masternodes' shared "current state of balances" (the delta wrt to the last stamped state of balances), which is the net result of all the mempool transactions.  

And that's it.

Very light-weight.  Very small block chain.   The only thing that normal nodes can do, is download, each time when they are active, the last stamped balance sheet, verify that this corresponds to the hash on the chain, and the active mem pool, verifying that this mempool corresponds to the the difference between the last stamped balance sheet, and the current active balance state (which will become stamped soon).  

So no, you cannot verify old individual transactions "when you were not there".  Yes, as long as you are an active normal node, you can verify that the balances are updated correctly.

You've just re-invented normal banking.

All transactions HAVE BEEN public.  Normal nodes COULD HAVE recorded them (and kept the whole "block chain of transactions").  But the network can forget this for normal operation.  A newcomer cannot verify how the balances got to their actual state, but can verify *from that moment onward* that all transactions correspond to all balance movements, and as long as he stays connected.   If he "hooks off", he has to trust that the system continues to work that way, and that others to the verifications.  

Some normal nodes may keep the full records.  These full records are equivalent to the full block chain of transactions.  All signed transactions from the recorded mem pools come down to the block contents of bitcoin like block chains.  But they don't have to be shared by all nodes.  Nodes are only interested in the DELTA of balances when they are active.  The don't care about how the balances got there (and if they are interested, they can try to obtain "full block chain information").  But there's no need to do this for current transactions to go on.  You can have a daily 10 GB worth of transaction pool, which you can forget about once the balances are updated and stamped.

See first of all it is your money so no one can force you where you should invest your money but I think you are taking it too far this is the first time dash got some sort of increase but bitcoin has got many more high jumps compared to dash and about features why do you care if you just buying for investment purpose then why do you care for it's features.

LOL another guy on his ignore list ? must be long hahahha
Sadly the usual idiots here railing on with massive rants oblivious to what the fucking topic is.
As usual it's the same handful of idiots spouting off like king shit with the worlds biggest chip on their shoulder and i spend every day all year long reminding them what the topic is and how to stay on it.
You'd think such incredible geniuses here would catch on after all these years of lecturing them.

nope  

And yeah i rant.. ON TOPIC !

How many people here scroll past page after page of massive blocks of text of random bullshit ?

Ah, Spartacus

Dark markets are essentially related to drugs because states have made drugs a high risk/highly lucrative business, by outlawing them, and by pruning the commerce sufficiently for the threat to be credible, but not sufficiently to kill it all together.  In other words, dark markets selling drugs are a product of the state.  Normally, drugs are cheap to make, and offer would normally swamp demand, resulting in extremely low prices of drugs, for people wanting to use it ; much, much cheaper than quality food, for instance.

In order to use dark markets, and hence finance the costs of the risk of illegality, there must be an incentive that allows the price setting to be higher than the "legal" way of doing this.  With drugs, there simply isn't a legal way, and as there is a significant inelastic demand, one has the potential to have very high margins, which is exactly why states do this: to finance drugs cartels, which, in turn, allow the state to justify their taxations, spendings, and liberticide measures.  The same reasons btw why they finance and organize terrorism.

But dark markets are not automatically related to drugs.  They are also related to everything where there is an inelastic demand, and for which the "legal" way becomes too expensive, too "bad quality" or too restrictive.  With the advancement of communism, over-regulation, heavy taxation, and privileged handing-out of licences, states are pushing other markets into dark markets.  During WWII, when quality food was rationed (and essentially confiscated by the German army for their troops), there were dark markets for quality butter, eggs and so on.   In the US, during the alcohol prohibition, there were dark markets for wine and whiskey.   Where I live, there are already dark markets for housekeeping, gardening and other low-level services, which are way too expensive if you do it "officially" (called "black work"), simply because taxation is of the order of 2/3 of the net value exchange.  There are already dark markets for homework help for similar reasons.  I live in Europe, and with the bankruptcy of the "caring state" and the souvereign debt crisis that is building up from it, the high immigration levels (I have nothing against immigration as such, but we are not importing "people", we are importing poverty, which is then socialised over the whole of society until it cracks) taxation of quality goods and services of which there is inelastic demand can only skyrocket.

So, for me, dark markets are not related to drugs.  Drugs use dark markets because the conditions of the drugs market have been set up by the state that they are suited for dark markets (inelastic demand, and high "legal" costs).  But a lot of other things will be pushed that way, and already are ; things of daily life.

This is why I am a great defender of dark markets.  

BTW, I also evolved from liberalism, to minarchism, to anarcho-capitalism to full anarchy.

The world you are preparing for I refuse to live in. I'd much rather take 10 bullets than live one day in your vision of our future.

IMO you are already a slave. You've defeated yourself and accepted it by being willing cower and cope with a dysfunctional State. For me, hell no! We Americans did not give up our guns!

I am an optimist and if ever comes time to fight global absolute totalitarianism, then let's go ahead on guns blazing and not this hiding like slithery worms under a rock shitlife.

I admire warriors. I am very physical, not just cerebral.

Edit: for the small community anonymity wherein you trust your community but not the State, then much better you never send your transactions to the blockchain, only the hash. Then even if the State has your IP address or a powerful quantum computer it won't help them.

You won't be bringing your ruler because you aren't a man.

And you won't even show up, because you are chickenshit.

You can't walk your tough guy talk.

You are now on ignore. And will stay there for ever, or until you show up.

Should have put you on ignore a long time ago, so that we didn't reach this toxic point. I guess I am too willing to give people umpteen chances to reform themselves. But I really need to be more forthright when dealing with strangers over the Internet, because clearly there are some sick motherfuckers out here.

iCEBREAKER you are a pathetic psycho sociopath. Several people have confirmed to me the same appraisal of your incessant belligerence, unnecessary personal insults, exceedingly foul mouth, and other anti-social behavior.

man·hood
ˈmanˌho͝od/
qualities traditionally associated with men, such as courage, strength


My advice to men is don't create war where you aren't prepared for extreme violence. I personally don't condone unnecessary violence and I avoid violent confrontation where it can be avoided. But I do condone warriors and some native american warriors for example know how to extract your heart with their bare hands so fast that they can eat it in front of you before you die. Really it is not wise to pick unnecessary fights with men you don't know. If you've got some mental problem, it behooves you to get some help before you mess with the guy who ends your miserable life.

As iamnotback has already pointed out in his link Dash does not solve any of Bitcoin's problems related to blocksize scaling. In fact one can argue that Dash actually makes these problems worse since not only the miners, but the masternodes and budget proposals also have to be funded from the diminishing block reward. The only thing Dash has provided here is a temporary kick the can down the road since the Dash network unlike the Bitcoin network does not have full blocks and Dash has an effective 4MB, over 10 min, blocksize as opposed to the 1 MB blocksize limit in Bitcoin.

A simple way to understand the Dash masternode network is to compare it to the United States Banking system:
The number of Banks is around 6700 add to this another 6100 Credit Unions and we are at over 12,000 deposit taking institutions in the United States, vs ~4000 Dash masternodes. Even worse and a more apt comparison needs to be bank and credit union branches since multiple Dash masternodes can be owned by one person. The capital needed to start a bank in the United states ~40,000,000 USD is way less as a proportion of the USD M0 money supply, ~3.500,000,000,000 USD than 1000 Dash for a Dash masternode is of the Dash M0 money supply ~7,100,000 Dash. Do the math please.

The above becomes relevant when one looks at the following:
Instant X. In instant X, 15 masternodes are selected at random to approve or disapprove transactions, by a simple majority. The comparison in the US banking systems would to have 15 bank branches selected at random to approve or disapprove a transaction instead of having a single bank approve or disapprove a transaction. Does that make the ledger decentralized? I do not think so.
The "decentralized" masternode voting process. Here we have the Banks voting in proportion to market capitalization on how to spend 10% of the USD "printed" by the US Federal Reserve. These funds are to be spent on hair brained marketing schemes for example.

I will leave it to the lawyers to sort out whether on not the Dash masternodes are MSBs In the United States and are subject to regulation by FinCEN. This is apart and in addition to the SEC requirements for Securities registration. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinbases-securities-law-framework-applied-to-every-ico-1808859

The above is only scratching the surface. There are way more issues for example the Second Pirate Savings and Trust attack against the Dash masternode network I mentioned before in this thread.

On a final note: The Dash instamine has been beaten to death. Dash has far more serious problems than that.

I think you can't really win against a violence monopolist that is after you.  However, you can do your thing with a violence monopolist that doesn't know you really exist.

You see, my hope for crypto is actually much more down-to-earth.  I think that we are moving towards a from of global communism, with tax rates close to 95% or even 99%.  Right now effective tax levels are of the order of 70%, which means that on every economical interaction, both parties need to produce 3 times more than what they obtain in the trade.  If I want to trade my apple for your orange, I need to produce 3 apples, and you need to produce 3 oranges, so that I can obtain 1 orange, and you can obtain one apple.  I think this factor will go up to 20, or even to 100 in the near future when global communism diverges.  Which means that if I officially want to trade one apple against one orange, I need to produce 20 apples or even 100 apples, and you will need to produce 20 oranges, or even 100 oranges, so that I obtain 1 orange, and you obtain 1 apple.

Under such taxation, no economic freedom can exist, but we will all get a lot of very low quality state service and have to do a lot of very useless work, to obtain very large bruto wages, which are then pruned off, to only have a few percent of it as genuine buying power outside of state support which is abundant, but of extremely low quality, except for an elite which will live in relatively large luxury.  Of course, under such severe taxation levels, the slightest bit of non-taxed economic activity will be actively repressed.
It is to fight those circumstances that I see "small, local crypto" as useful, where small underground local economic relationships can make life a lot better.  Joe grows some real vegetables (almost impossible to obtain through state support), and trades them for some quality education for his children, given by a neighbour that is knowledgeable of mathematics (quality education will be totally absent in state educational systems, which are just brainwashing institutions where the bare minimum to do your Amazon job is thought with totally inadequate teaching methods), and another neighbour that is knowledgeable of english.  Someone else is a medical doctor, and is helping people secretly getting better - public health services are of extremely bad quality and no-one ever gets cured there.  Local networks of people help each other underground, and for that they need a local kind of currency.  It allows you to get one-another some quality food, quality education, quality medical help, quality personal assistance, .... all things that are done in small local economies.  The small amount of economic needs outside of these local communities, like some electronic devices that work, that are not entirely compromised by state hackers and so on, will need more global currencies ; but this is much more dangerous to do - so one can use the little economic power-after-tax to buy these few "global" things that can hardly be locally produced.  But most of the "dark market economy" is simply locally grown quality food, local personal services to one-another (education, medical help, personal help like keeping children, helping older people.,...), and such things.  It is too dangerous to set up any material production.  And yes, some people will  get caught, but if the networks are sufficiently local, small, distributed and changing, the system can not be brought down as a whole.
It is this kind of "dark market" that I hope things like monero (clones ?) can help when global communism will set in.

OK, but I'm not going to share my ruler.   

No telling who or what you've stuck your manhood into over there in the Philippines.

Come to think of it, untreated late stage syphilis is as good an explanation as any other for your unhinged lunacy.

I didn't conflate. I accused them of creating dark markets as a plan to be "THE coin everyone is using".

I didn't accuse them of not creating privacy.

You conflated and placed your incorrect assumption of my intent on me with an erroneous insult to my person. Whereas, I was not insulting any person, but rather criticizing a strategy.

If you want to make irrelevant off-topic insults to me personally then fine. Do it to my face like a real man. And let's test our manhood. Otherwise keep our discussions civil and on point.


I have not denied the importance of privacy. Just reading through my posts over the past two days will present a couple of instances of myself pointing out that even the mainstream will need privacy. But IMO privacy isn't a feature that will drive mass adoption. Yet when Monero emphasizes or associates with dark markets, they are in the minds of the mainstream essentially associating the project with crime and I think that is not a wise priority for the marketing if mass adoption is the goal.

---

There you go again like a wimp-ass prick instead of civilized human being.


Walk your talk tough guy.

You need a good ass whooping. And eventually with that foul mouth of yours, you are going to get one (not necessarily by any particular person but just statistically speaking). Virtually every post you write is some foul mouthed ad hominem attack. You don't dare talk this way in real life. You only do this hiding in your basement like the little guy operating the Wizard of Oz.

Yes, you did.  Right here:


You only mentioned DNMs; you failed to mention all the other XMR use cases, such as off-chain BTC linkability breaking for better privacy.

And when called out for it, you go right back into your usual bipolar schizo schtick, whining about your victimization while simultaneously posturing like a thug.

Poor little internet tough guy, you really think "ZOMG FIGHT ME IRL" e-bluster is going to make me stop vigorously correcting you as required, don't you?   

I didn't.


I try to be a realist, even though philosophically I am aligned as a minanarchist. You don't go fostering destruction of society with drugs and expect to not have a backlash.


I was referring to attempts to create user adoption by espousing for example decentralized ebay-like concept that accepts anonymous payments.

Even if you argue that it is all for privacy and not for selling drugs online (yeah right  ), I still argue that privacy is not a primary mass market driver.

As usual, the tone of your reply exemplifies that you are incapable of fostering civilized discussion. And IMO this reflects poorly on Monero's community. If I was in fluffypony's position as BDFL, I would have publicly spanked and disowned you by now (being a decentralized project you could freely ignore it). Linus isn't afraid to do this. Again another reason why even though i think @fluffypony is a super nice guy, I don't see him as a capable leader.

I actually thought your reply to @charleshoskinson was very well organized and bordering on respectful discourse. Then you backslide again.


You are so brave from behind the protection of the Internet and government laws. How about you walk your talk wimp? I don't care about my life. Try me.

Who the hell cares what that shameless shill thinks ?
I never got the big uproar about it all.. do you all hang on her every word ?
I am not sure i heard of her until topics like this started popping up anyway.
It's not like i surf Youtube looking for idiot blow-hard's rammbling on about crypto coins LOL

This chick says her shit OVER THERE ..on Youtube and you guys OVER HERE flip out  

What is the problem HERE again ?

And lets have a poll and see how many of you base your trade decisions on her videos.

Why is this topic a thing ?
A fucking sleazy little rotten Monero shithead bumped it to try and bash DASH because it went up in price.
Games...  



Monero faggots everywhere !

Peter Todd and Greg Maxwell have said they use Monero as a mixing layer to ensure the privacy of their BTC tx.

That has nothing to do with "creating dark markets."

You do of course understand BTC tx are linkable and XMR tx are not.

So why do you indulge in the fallacious conflation of privacy provision (ie 100% fungibility) with "creating dark markets?"

That reeks of the .gov goon squads well worn parade of terrist/childpron/druglord hobgoblins.

Since you know better yet do it anyway, the simplest explanation does not (to say the least) paint you in a flattering light.