Bitcoin recognized as digital currency in Shanghai

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Quote from: legendbtc on September 28, 2023, 05:00:48 AM

Quote from: kryptqnick on September 28, 2023, 04:23:39 AM

I didn't consider Hong Kong that big of a deal because it's a very peculiar part of China where things are done differently and which even has a different legal status from most of China. But Shanghai's a very different story, as it's one of the biggest Chinese cities. The court suggest viewing Bitcoin as personal property, not a currency, but it's still significant. Is this decision likely to be overruled? Or is it likely that this court's actually expressing the view of the government, considering how centralized power is in that country?

Even if it is rejected, I still see it as a positive thing from the country of billion people because as we know, they are one of the countries with the harshest ban on bitcoin and cryptocurrency. So even if this recognition is rejected, it is certain that there will be other proposals in the future.

Bitcoin has been growing without China for years, this news is not big news for bitcoin. But it is also interesting to know that the demand for bitcoin has become so great that there is no way to stop it anymore. Like it or not, I believe the Chinese government must accept the fact that it cannot stop bitcoin.

I see the point entirely;,I like the fact that even as the needs of the China government needs Bitcoin's attention,the need for Bitcoin's attention and usage should be put into consideration and be placed up on a scale of 1 to 10.China or no china, Bitcoin is relatively associated with an intense growth and approach to finances.

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Quote from: kryptqnick on September 28, 2023, 04:23:39 AM

I didn't consider Hong Kong that big of a deal because it's a very peculiar part of China where things are done differently and which even has a different legal status from most of China. But Shanghai's a very different story, as it's one of the biggest Chinese cities. The court suggest viewing Bitcoin as personal property, not a currency, but it's still significant. Is this decision likely to be overruled? Or is it likely that this court's actually expressing the view of the government, considering how centralized power is in that country?

China has banned bitcoin and unbanned bitcoin so many times I think I lost count. I love referencing that south park clip about the chinese banning bitcoin lmfao, now that junk is some funny stuff man lolol. Its only declared property in China until its not anymore which could happen as soon as next week with their track record ha. But I don't think that will be the case here, I think everyone is taking bitcoin much more seriously and now it is looked at in a much different light then before...

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Quote from: $weetne$$ on November 21, 2024, 11:36:05 PM

I think he has because already the Chinese are big lovers of Bitcoin and we have alot of people from that region involved in investing in Bitcoin and with the legalization of Bitcoin in china, it will encourage more people to buy and with their population, we can have a large amount of people joining the industry.

To be fair, before bitcoin was banned in China, they were one of the biggest population to buy and hold bitcoin so needless to say that there definitely is demand in the region for bitcoin. Who could say what or how could bitcoin have progressed in China if there were no laws that banned it in the first place. Maybe it would have been the innovators and pioneer of web3 and crypto related projects but well these are all what ifs and now they are going to need to catch up again.

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Since it is now legal to own Bitcoin as a personal property, I do not think there is any more laws stopping the wide range of adoption that will be coming form China. First it was the US being very friendly to Bitcoin with the incoming president and then it's China, this are all signs of what the bull market holds and shows the potential of the kind of bull market run that we are about to have, with more positives news the price will keep increasing.

I do wonder if this would trigger China. We know that China and US do not get along well together. Could China see US being friendly with Crypto as a threat that they would want to start being friendlier to crypto than US or will they completely go towards the opposite direction? It is crazy to think how crypto is so wrapped and involved in politics as well.

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Quote from: bbc.reporter on November 21, 2024, 09:27:47 PM

Has this Chinese judge begun something which might cause the Chinamen and women to become more brave and they also might be encouraged to buy and own bitcoin because of the opinion expressed by this judge? The article also mentioned that institutional investors under the jurisdiction of China are not allowed to invest in the cryptospace, however, I speculate that this might change. We cannot for certain know when this change might occur, however. This might be longer than 5 years.

I think he has because already the Chinese are big lovers of Bitcoin and we have alot of people from that region involved in investing in Bitcoin and with the legalization of Bitcoin in china, it will encourage more people to buy and with their population, we can have a large amount of people joining the industry. Since it is now legal to own Bitcoin as a personal property, I do not think there is any more laws stopping the wide range of adoption that will be coming form China. First it was the US being very friendly to Bitcoin with the incoming president and then it's China, this are all signs of what the bull market holds and shows the potential of the kind of bull market run that we are about to have, with more positives news the price will keep increasing.

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Has this Chinese judge begun something which might cause the Chinamen and women to become more brave and they also might be encouraged to buy and own bitcoin because of the opinion expressed by this judge? The article also mentioned that institutional investors under the jurisdiction of China are not allowed to invest in the cryptospace, however, I speculate that this might change. We cannot for certain know when this change might occur, however. This might be longer than 5 years.

The South China Morning Post cited an article written by judge Sun Jie of the Shanghai Songjiang People’s Court, published this week on the official WeChat account of the Shanghai High People’s Court.

Read in full https://en.cryptonomist.ch/2024/11/21/official-in-china-it-is-legal-to-own-bitcoin/

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What many governments don't understand, especially regarding how Bitcoin works, is that it is impossible to ban or eliminate it, since banning Bitcoin is like banning the internet. Politicians who want to control the banking system and force everything to go through it don't realize that individuals can trade Bitcoin with just a device that has internet access and do so anonymously. Not only that, but they can also send funds outside the country to anywhere in the world. Bitcoin has no entry or exit barriers, and governments will have to learn to live with that, and for those who don't like it, too bad.

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on October 02, 2024, 10:34:02 PM

It is indeed surprising that the Shanghai People's Court suddenly recognized Bitcoin after all the bans and penalties they previously imposed on Bitcoin and mining, causing miners to emigrate abroad or sell their equipment.

Although the Shanghai People's Court's declaration that Bitcoin is a digital currency means that Chinese Bitcoin holders will be taxed, this is much better than the current situation. We hope that the Chinese government has begun to understand the importance of Bitcoin, similar to the United States, and that it cannot be ignored or stopped.

Agreed that it might be taxed, however, this is only a necessity for the Chinese government under the rule of the Xi of the Jin and the Ping to accept bitcoin and certainly after this, the cryptospace. This will imply that much inflows from Chinese seed investors, venture capitalists, traders, market makers and other types of whales will begin arriving when Shanghai has opened their jurisdiction for cryptocoin exchanges, DeFi exchanges, lenders, borrowers, liquidity providers and all types of other participants.

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Quote from: Russlenat on October 03, 2024, 02:40:16 AM

Quote from: yhiaali3 on October 02, 2024, 10:34:02 PM

Although the Shanghai People's Court's declaration that Bitcoin is a digital currency means that Chinese Bitcoin holders will be taxed, this is much better than the current situation.

It’s not taxable yet since Bitcoin isn’t considered legal tender and isn’t widely accepted as a payment method. It’s currently viewed as a unique digital currency, and there's no specific mention of taxation in the guidelines. You can own Bitcoin secretly and keep it in your wallet without breaking any laws. However, the moment you declare that you're accepting Bitcoin in exchange for goods or buying it, you could be charged for violating the law. It’s still early days, but this is actually good news for Bitcoin enthusiasts in the country. Hopefully, more positive developments will come, and Bitcoin will be openly accepted like in other major countries.

They should take advantage of this situation while their government has no strict regulations when it comes to crypto taxations. The declaration may entice their citizens to explore the benefits of crypto transactions, and thus, may contribute in the increase of the demand.
It also shows that the government can really change their perspectives over bitcoin or crypto market. Remember, the news few years ago about China banning crypto, and here we are now, Shanghai is recognizing again this digital currency.
Shanghai is China's financial hub, so such move is actually another good boost for btc. This news however, started in 2022. So I am assuming that this year, they have better treatment to the crypto market.

"In 2022, the Shanghai High People’s Court declared Bitcoin a virtual asset with economic value, protected by Chinese law. This ruling acknowledged Bitcoin’s unique characteristics, distinguishing it from traditional currencies."

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Quote from: Fiatless on October 03, 2024, 08:00:18 AM

It is on record that the Chinese government has little or no respect for citizen's fundamental rights. But my point is that a former government official wants China to be a key player in the crypto space just like the US and I see it as nationalism.

The key thing is that it is a former minister who now says one thing, but when he was a minister he said something completely different. Unfortunately, you have one way of thinking that doesn't make much sense - because after all, you think that China should compete with the US (or anyone else) when it comes to cryptocurrencies.

Quote from: Fiatless on October 03, 2024, 08:00:18 AM

The graph I showed contains the crypto revenue of some countries and not their entire GDP. China's total revenue in 2023 was slightly above $3 Trillion. Indeed, $9.36 Billion is still insignificant, but at least it was an addition to the total government revenue. The benefit might not be massive (like I earlier said) but it could help build some infrastructure.

If you think that one bag of sand on one huge beach makes a difference, then your logic makes sense - but even if all CEXs and all BTC mining farms were located in China, it would not represent even 0.1% of what China earns in one year. Besides, China is a huge country and the impact of $10 billion on infrastructure is practically invisible.

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Quote from: Lucius on October 03, 2024, 05:29:00 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on October 02, 2024, 06:01:49 AM

I said national interest because the reason why he wants China to review its policy on cryptocurrency is to compete with the US. He doesn't want China to be an onlooker in the crypto market, that's love for his country.

This only made me laugh, because you are talking about some kind of political love of current and former members of the Communist Party of China towards the Chinese people? Does China have "political love" for the millions who are in labor camps just because they did some trivial thing against the regime?

It is on record that the Chinese government has little or no respect for citizen's fundamental rights. But my point is that a former government official wants China to be a key player in the crypto space just like the US and I see it as nationalism.

Quote from: Lucius on October 03, 2024, 05:29:00 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on October 02, 2024, 06:01:49 AM

They lost money. Maybe they didn't know that the industry would grow this big. The US recently changed its rigid stance on Bitcoin by approving the Spot ETF after years of refusal.

China might be a rich country but it doesn't undermine the fact that they still need more money. The goal of any economy is to keep expanding, so every opportunity regardless of how small will be appreciated. The US economy is benefitting massively from the crypto market.

Do you know the difference between a billion and a trillion? China's GDP in 2023 was about $18 trillion, and according to the graph you show, gains in the US from cryptocurrencies amount to $9.36 billion for that same year - 1 trillion equals 1000 billion. Now tell me what kind of massive benefits you are talking about when it comes to the US, which had a GDP of $27 trillion in 2023 - what does $9 billion mean in that amount?

The graph I showed contains the crypto revenue of some countries and not their entire GDP. China's total revenue in 2023 was slightly above $3 Trillion. Indeed, $9.36 Billion is still insignificant, but at least it was an addition to the total government revenue. The benefit might not be massive (like I earlier said) but it could help build some infrastructure.

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Quote from: Fiatless on October 02, 2024, 06:01:49 AM

I said national interest because the reason why he wants China to review its policy on cryptocurrency is to compete with the US. He doesn't want China to be an onlooker in the crypto market, that's love for his country.

This only made me laugh, because you are talking about some kind of political love of current and former members of the Communist Party of China towards the Chinese people? Does China have "political love" for the millions who are in labor camps just because they did some trivial thing against the regime?

Quote from: Fiatless on October 02, 2024, 06:01:49 AM

They lost money. Maybe they didn't know that the industry would grow this big. The US recently changed its rigid stance on Bitcoin by approving the Spot ETF after years of refusal.

China might be a rich country but it doesn't undermine the fact that they still need more money. The goal of any economy is to keep expanding, so every opportunity regardless of how small will be appreciated. The US economy is benefitting massively from the crypto market.

Do you know the difference between a billion and a trillion? China's GDP in 2023 was about $18 trillion, and according to the graph you show, gains in the US from cryptocurrencies amount to $9.36 billion for that same year - 1 trillion equals 1000 billion. Now tell me what kind of massive benefits you are talking about when it comes to the US, which had a GDP of $27 trillion in 2023 - what does $9 billion mean in that amount?

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Quote from: OcTradism on September 28, 2023, 12:27:59 AM

Now they recognized Bitcoin as an unique cryptocurrency, LMAO. Bitcoin is Bitcoin and it has been recognized by Bitcoin community who use it and understand its value. Shanghai or Chinese government won't be able to stop or break the Bitcoin adoption growth.

The population of China is 1.412 billion people. If you know how strict China is and how big of an impact they have on world trade and the economy, then you'll know that the Chinese government is able to ruin the growth of Bitcoin adoption.

Quote from: Poker Player on September 28, 2023, 02:33:35 AM

Neither do I, but the ann does not come from him, but from Shanghai People’s Court, although I think it is better to assume that if they announce this, it is because they somehow have the approval of the President or high authorities of the state. With the policy they followed after being one of the first countries to adopt Bitcoin and its mining, I don't trust a simple statement.

China is a direct competitor of the USA. Since the USA approved Bitcoin ETFs, China now has to do something. They decided to say no to Bitcoin but in a centralized world where the US has all the powers, it's not a good idea to say no to the decentralized currency, especially when the USA is gaining much power on it. I think it was very stupid of them to ban Bitcoin mining because many Chinese fled to other countries and put billions of dollars into investments. It's logical if they decided to recognize Bitcoin now.

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Quote from: yhiaali3 on October 02, 2024, 10:34:02 PM

Although the Shanghai People's Court's declaration that Bitcoin is a digital currency means that Chinese Bitcoin holders will be taxed, this is much better than the current situation.

It’s not taxable yet since Bitcoin isn’t considered legal tender and isn’t widely accepted as a payment method. It’s currently viewed as a unique digital currency, and there's no specific mention of taxation in the guidelines. You can own Bitcoin secretly and keep it in your wallet without breaking any laws. However, the moment you declare that you're accepting Bitcoin in exchange for goods or buying it, you could be charged for violating the law. It’s still early days, but this is actually good news for Bitcoin enthusiasts in the country. Hopefully, more positive developments will come, and Bitcoin will be openly accepted like in other major countries.

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Quote from: Fiatless on September 28, 2023, 03:45:18 AM

I am viewing this news from two perspectives. One, it is possible that the Chinese government is gradually changing the unfriendly perception about bitcoin so they are using court judgments to prepare the path for the policy change. Secondly, these judgments are merely for academic exercise, nothing will come out of them. The Chinese judiciary are not independent, in fact they are just rubber stamp to the communist party.

Do you know when Bitcoin will be accepted in China? Only when the political regime changes to one that is more loyal to the population. That is, it should be a democratic country, not a totalitarian regime. At the moment, this is just a futile effort and nothing more. Those who closely follow the news in the crypto world understand perfectly well that China is not a state that is predisposed to such fundamental changes. The current leadership is afraid to let go of the levers of pressure on citizens, as this threatens that the chairs of the ruling elite may shake.

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It is indeed surprising that the Shanghai People's Court suddenly recognized Bitcoin after all the bans and penalties they previously imposed on Bitcoin and mining, causing miners to emigrate abroad or sell their equipment.

Although the Shanghai People's Court's declaration that Bitcoin is a digital currency means that Chinese Bitcoin holders will be taxed, this is much better than the current situation. We hope that the Chinese government has begun to understand the importance of Bitcoin, similar to the United States, and that it cannot be ignored or stopped.

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Quote from: icalical on September 30, 2024, 01:10:20 AM

The very strong stance taken on cryptocurrencies by the Chinese government is, in itself, a big obstacle. Even with such legal recognitions, one would expect that the Communist Party will keep such a tight grip on regulation, especially when it comes to finance. hence, the general diffusion of Bitcoin in China might still be far off for the foreseeable future. While the court ruling lends certain legal legitimacy to Bitcoin as property, it is far from opening the doors for full-scale trading or mining.

You are right though I can see why people feel a bit excited about this recognition. It is better than China not acknowledging crypto anymore and holding on to their stance regarding crypto. At least this is progress that they are making. Despite the recognition, I am sure there will still be many strict policies about holding and trading. The government would want to have control over this as much as they can. I still think that it can be good for investors or traders to at least be able to do it in the country, but it will not be as free as it is in other countries. Many could even be a bit hesitant to actually use crypto due to regulatory policies that are not yet very clear. One step forward but still quite a long way to go.

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Quote from: OcTradism on September 30, 2024, 09:40:48 PM

Quote from: bbc.reporter on September 29, 2024, 10:47:04 PM

News update.

While China maintains a cautious stance, it has taken small steps towards becoming more open to crypto.

Chinese investors can still purchase crypto through Hong Kong-based firms, and in April, three Bitcoin ETFs were launched in Hong Kong.[/i]

Read in full https://www.dlnews.com/articles/regulation/china-pressed-speed-up-crypto-policy-us-bitcoin-etf-lead/

China can not step outside a big technology trend on the globe and the regime of Xi Jin Ping will end, after that China will move to a new era with their new national leader.

The nation grows up in unsustainable ways and it will struggle to maintain its position against other big nations. If its economic size drops, there will be less investment in their Army forces and its power impacts on geopolitics will drop consequently. I believe that it will happen and Bitcoin, cryptocurrency market will be more stronger against strategic, policy and regulation news from China in future.

The world is big and it's more than China mainland, so cryptocurrency market will move on with less worry on what's happening in China mainland.

However let me tell you, and I have repeated this many times in the forum already, the Xi of the Jin and the Ping has already declared in a speech that he wants China to be a leader in technology including blockchain. This was a speech during 2019, I reckon. If I remember correctly also mentioned that blockchain will be a part of China's big companies by 2030. But this might be a difficult mission if they do not open their jurisdiction for all blockchain technologies today, however. But this might occur on 2025 which will certainly be very bullish for the cryptospace.

Another bullish occurrence on this is it might create a precedent that America and Europe might also increase their efforts to be the leader in blockchain technology hehehe.

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Quote from: Lucius on October 02, 2024, 04:10:07 AM

Quote from: Fiatless on October 01, 2024, 02:54:42 PM

Zhu Guangyao's suggestion was fueled by national interest. The former minister wants his country to compete with the US in the crypto industry. The government can decide to accept or reject his advice. Until the news of a policy change comes from Xi Jinping or a top Chinese government official, the country remains unfriendly.
~snip~

What national interest are you talking about? Well, the average Chinese has only one thing in his interest, and that is to be obedient or to become an enemy of the CP - and in that case his life will turn into hell. That minister didn't do himself any favors by saying such things, who knows, maybe a very dark future awaits him.

I said national interest because the reason why he wants China to review its policy on cryptocurrency is to compete with the US. He doesn't want China to be an onlooker in the crypto market, that's love for his country.

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China has literally 0% interest in competing with the US in terms of cryptocurrencies - because if they ever wanted to, they wouldn't ban everything related to them. We are talking about economies that have a GDP of tens of trillions of $ - does anyone think that China lost something because it banned mining and trading with cryptocurrencies?

They lost money. Maybe they didn't know that the industry would grow this big. The US recently changed its rigid stance on Bitcoin by approving the Spot ETF after years of refusal.

China might be a rich country but it doesn't undermine the fact that they still need more money. The goal of any economy is to keep expanding, so every opportunity regardless of how small will be appreciated. The US economy is benefitting massively from the crypto market.

.
https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/cryptocurrency-gains-by-country-2023/#:~:text=2023%20estimated%20cryptocurrency%20gains%20by,%241.39%20billion%20in%20crypto%20gains.

There are also speculations that Hong Kong's decision to make the country a global crypto hub has the approval and backing of Mainland China. Maybe Hong Kong is China's crypto laboratory, who knows?

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Quote from: Fiatless on October 01, 2024, 02:54:42 PM

Zhu Guangyao's suggestion was fueled by national interest. The former minister wants his country to compete with the US in the crypto industry. The government can decide to accept or reject his advice. Until the news of a policy change comes from Xi Jinping or a top Chinese government official, the country remains unfriendly.
~snip~

What national interest are you talking about? Well, the average Chinese has only one thing in his interest, and that is to be obedient or to become an enemy of the CP - and in that case his life will turn into hell. That minister didn't do himself any favors by saying such things, who knows, maybe a very dark future awaits him.

China has literally 0% interest in competing with the US in terms of cryptocurrencies - because if they ever wanted to, they wouldn't ban everything related to them. We are talking about economies that have a GDP of tens of trillions of $ - does anyone think that China lost something because it banned mining and trading with cryptocurrencies?

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That's really a tough situation for the people in there. And that's what communism is all about based on the leadership that they'd follow.

Sadly, even if there will be a lot of good proposals about it, the final say will still come from the president Xi and no one will be able to alter that but only him.

But who knows? their economy needs to uprise because of the loans that they've given to many countries, they need another source for more money to flow into their economy.

Topic: Bitcoin recognized as digital currency in Shanghai (Read 719 times)