Topic: Bitcoin: Revolution Or Trap? (Read 1407 times)

People were greedy before money existed, therefore money didn't make people greedy.

Your vision of a society based on gratitude can only function in small tribes or communities.

It's not possible on a global scale, which is why bitcoin exists.

Another disturbing angle involves the growing cyber-war capabilities of the US and other major nations. In the aggregate they are throwing tens of billions of dollars each year at developing the tools to hack virtually any system. If they gain access to the algorithm that governs the increase in the supply of a given crypto-currency – or figure out how to intercept transactions en route from buyer to seller – they would be able to hijack that currency for their own ends, either to finance themselves or punish/control those who depend on it. As Catherine Austin Fitts says, “Anybody who thinks the government can’t control crypto-currencies is just dreaming.”

This lack of physical reality ultimately means that crypto-currencies can’t, in our opinion, be considered “money.” That is, they function beautifully as a currency, but as a store of value they are suspect because they lack a corporeal existence. So they’re not an appropriate place for one’s life savings.

But don’t count them out. Given the speed with which other Internet applications – and the Internet itself – have evolved from techie playthings to essential tools of modern life, it’s easy to envision crypto-currencies traveling the same path. They have the potential, once their kinks are ironed out, to function as an efficient online currency in a gold-base

There is a much more valuable commodity we could be exchanging.  The commodity being energy.  Happiness, peace.

Imagine being paid in gratitude.  And buying goods in gratitude.  Imagine a society that shares as one giant family, people would have more peace than ever before.

While money is not good nor bad, it is a tool that facilitates greed.  It corrupts the mind, for it's very purpose is to wager possessions.  So long as we limit ourselves with greed, we will not experience the limitless positivity that each of us is capable of feeling.  As long as you can buy another man's soul for the benefit of your own wealth, corruption will exist.

Bitcoin is something that will phase out current financial system that is flawed. It only takes education and current generations will happily accept the fact they use "internet money" as long as it's widely accepted and saves them all fees they accumulate over life time and pay to banks.

Next generations will have to learn to be more efficient, truly cost-effective and to provide a product or a service for ever lower cost that is build to last (just like in the good old days - a coffee table that lasts 2 generations - none of the ikea crap).

We're adding more zeros after the dot as far as I remember - having said that, as long as old currencies are in use, there will be inflation in the real world, thus hopefully 1 bitcoin will be worth a small fortune in near future.

With the  automation of production and eventually contruction, transport and farming everything will become cheap to the point when we balance out renewable energy, resources and needs (not greeds) of every human in the world. So cheap, it becomes free. That will be the moment, when bitcoin will serve its final purpose - transform us into truly free society, with no money, no goverments and politicians. All systems running open source, for people by the people of the world that has no longer artificial political boundaries, but is the way it looks from the outer space. A blue green dot living in harmony, like a single organism, not a bunch of idiots high on their greed playing "who's got the biggest cock" game.

If you don't know venus project, google it - it's very inspirational. Jacque Fresco is a true visionary. I think he was missing this piece of a puzzle - bitcoin - something that will allow societies to knock down just another wall that divides us - old school centralized economy.

Once we have matter energy transport, allowing us to live anywhere, and food replication, allowing us to no longer farm, it will free up vast numbers of resources and reduce the requirements for people to be wage slaves for life for peanuts.. I look forward to that day. I suspect the power structure won't want to give up their power base and ability to make money off the backs of others so easily though... the change will take time.....  as for having no money, that will take a very long time... human nature dictates certain people lust for power, status, and wealth, and as long as these people exist, there are going to want to acquire more and more of these resources. I am not one such individual however I know some that are.

It's not a trap nor revolution - it's more likely to say evolution as it's like the new era of financial world is coming and it's going to change also the worldview on finance, politics and culture.

Corporations would not be a menace to society without a dollar to feed the cogs.

1.Sometimes lack of government regulation makes resources extremely scarce.

A coca-cola factory opened in an area in India that was scarce in water. Farmers lost their revenues and livelyhood and currently have to work away from their community for ridiculously low wages.
Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWSjWWsFy9g

Lack of government regulation would mean that pollution would be rampant affecting everyone's health. It's bad enough as it is.

2. I only smoke the dankest reefer. Whaaaa? I'm just kidding. I just run out of steam for this post.

1. Resources would be abundant without government regulations, sanctions or wealth disparities preventing populations from having stuff.
2. You can barter if you want, but if do, you're exchanging the positive energy you get from helping someone for a material thing.
3. Serious?  How would I let organized criminal cartels steal from me?  I wouldn't.

atm over 4 billion people (the poor) do not have access to cyber currency, some form of currency or trade would still have to exist here

Well I think what's interesting about Bitcoin is that it raises big and important questions about what money is and whether we need it. I detect a certain anarcho communism in some of the replies which suggest we can live without money (not something I'm averse to, but very difficult to achieve).

I think David Graeber is interesting here and his book Debt: A 5000 Year History. He makes some interesting claims based on extensive anthropological research and some leftie anarchist sympathies. Here are some of the points he makes in the book that are relevant to the debate about money:

1. While we think that money came from barter there is no anthropological evidence for this, actually the way villages often operated before money existed is people would do each other favours, there would be a strong sense of obligation. For example somebody gives you some milk, so next time you pay them back with a piece of meat; and the anthropological evidence from ancient civilisations (like Mesepotania) suggests this is what happened rather than barter. His argument is that barter is a myth generated by the economists, which has become entrenched and seen as common sense.

2. The idea of debt or obligation pre-existed money, so we have this idea of doing each other favours. In villages somebody would give someone a favour and the other person would try and do a bigger favour in turn. These communities based around reciprocal responsibilities and returning favours have existed for a long time before money. Graeber argues that money came into existence because governments (or rather monarchies) needed to fund wars and money was an effective means of orchestrating this.

3. Finally, we do these things today don't we? Say you buy a group of friends a beer, and you expect them to get you a beer later but if you are a nice bloke (or lady) you don't worry about it if they don't. However, if they really are your friends another time you will be in a bar and they will get you a beer. In a sense this kind of transaction is not based on exchange because you do not buy the beer because they will buy you one, its more a sense of an obligation you have. Graeber is an anarchist so he thinks these aspects of human behaviour can become the basis for an alternative society.

Anyhow its an interesting book. So regarding the points that were made earlier about why we need money:

1. How will you store or stockpile your reserves (for hard times, such as drought or famine) ?
2. If barter is not available, then how you will purchase the things you need?
3. How will you pay your taxes?

Well none of these things are essential if you can imagine an alternative society in which is based on people helping one another and doing each other favours. People lived in societies without money a few thousands of years ago.

Finally going back to Bitcoin, I don't think its the answer to all our problems but it is important because it is a technological invention that allows us to question the money system and the problems it causes. Bitcoin also shows us that alternative systems are possible.

It is revolutionary.  It is a way to break away from the stranglehold banks, credit cards, etc have on doily commerce.

Money should be used as a pricing mechanism for goods and services.  That's really the only purpose it should serve, it allows economies of scale to function by creating a single fungible unit of exchange that has value to anyone who receives of sends it.

The concepts of M1 money supply, quantitative easing, controlling interest rates, are all functions of big government and politics.  The adoption of BTC is a complete shift from these policies, I am surprised all the time that government has not intervened quicker.

If there is no money, then:

1. How will you store or stockpile your reserves (for hard times, such as drought or famine) ?
2. If barter is not available, then how you will purchase the things you need?
3. How will you pay your taxes?

Do you like the tyranny, war, poverty and enslavement that come with it?

No thanks. I like my markets.

It could be both you know. It's a revolution because it's a currency that is indipendant - fuck banks. But it may also be worth nothing in a year or two (lets hope not tho eh).

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

I think it is a great breakthrough, like the torrent technology.

Money? Gold & silver?