Bitcoin Rise Due to Lower US Dollar? - page 2.

STT

legendary

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Dollar could be seen in decline during July which I think helped the rise from those prices but since then dollar went sideways and BTC price has been positive to flat. I think there is not much pressure from a higher dollar worth or boost from its move low so BTC for now is on its own.
Momentum since the recent low has been quite solid, I relate this to the 50 day average now and how well we would pass this vs this shorter term 2 day momentum measure.

2 day average should fail as it only lasts day to day but more important for bullish action is keeping 10500 as a low and support vs price history resistance overhead.

wxa7115

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on August 30, 2020, 05:10:52 AM

Dollar will always lose value, that is what fiat currencies do, that is why we have bitcoin. To start off with dollar has always lost value in the most important regular stuff, your gallon of milk may not lost too much and it could be worth just a bit more than what it was 10 years ago, but check how much Harvard takes for studying there 10 years ago, 20 years ago and 30 years ago and you will see the difference, take a look at TV's and you will not see huge difference, even though technology is mind bogglingly better it is maybe x2 than what it was 10 years ago, or computers, yet check healthcare and you will see how it went up x10 just in the past 10 years, a cancer treatment could take up as much as half a million dollars.

So long story short, people increase your salary based on computer and milk and so forth and they ignore the college fee and health, they cherry pick.

What you are describing is the incredible power of inflation, most people never realize it and they just complain about a recent price increase in one of the products they buy but when you being to look at the increases on the prices over a time span that includes decades you begin to see how powerful that tax really is.

A very simple experiment that people can run on their minds is to try to remember the cost of a product from your childhood and now go to your nearest store and see the price of the same product now, if you have lived long enough it will not be rare to see the price of the product has doubled or even tripled during that time and yet people do not see this and refuse to acknowledge the fiat system is unfair to them.

Botnake

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on August 30, 2020, 05:10:52 AM

So long story short, people increase your salary based on computer and milk and so forth and they ignore the college fee and health, they cherry pick.

That's what most people didn't see, no wonder even if we have a good salary but it's still not enough to live a comfortable life. I experienced that, I strive so hard to work, got promoted and get a better salary but at the end of the day, I'm still in debt. They say we should learn how to minimize our expenses and increase savings, but for me, this is not the life I like, its not financial freedom, what I want to see is an affordable basic needs and healthcare benefits is one of these now.

So IMO, saving alone is not good, invest more and save less, and I'm investing on crypto since 5 years more or less already.

TheGreatPython

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Dollar will always lose value, that is what fiat currencies do, that is why we have bitcoin. To start off with dollar has always lost value in the most important regular stuff, your gallon of milk may not lost too much and it could be worth just a bit more than what it was 10 years ago, but check how much Harvard takes for studying there 10 years ago, 20 years ago and 30 years ago and you will see the difference, take a look at TV's and you will not see huge difference, even though technology is mind bogglingly better it is maybe x2 than what it was 10 years ago, or computers, yet check healthcare and you will see how it went up x10 just in the past 10 years, a cancer treatment could take up as much as half a million dollars.

So long story short, people increase your salary based on computer and milk and so forth and they ignore the college fee and health, they cherry pick.

wxa7115

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Quote from: bitgolden on August 27, 2020, 01:38:28 PM

Bitcoin falls/rises because of higher/lower "fiat" not just us dollar. I know that us dollar is actually what bitcoin is pegged on and there is really all the talks about how much bitcoin worths with dollar and we calculate the rises and falls like that.

However just because it is pegged to dollar when we are calculating or discussing doesn't mean that is the only thing it is affected by. When a third world country has a bad economy, the people there go into crypto as well to save their money too, that is really the only thing you can hope for and I believe there is really no reason to just think dollar is the only thing that affects it. So by all means us dollar do effect bitcoin but that doesn't mean that others do not, all fiats do end up effecting bitcoin and its price.

But so far those crises have hit countries that are not really that influential when it comes to the world economy and as such the price of bitcoin has a tendency to go higher in those countries because the supply of available bitcoin is very low, but it doesn't really have an effect on the global price of bitcoin.

For that we will need that one of the most powerful countries of the world suffers a massive crisis and that people migrate to bitcoin and quite honestly the only country in which I could see that scenario happening is in the United States, I say this because that is where there is a huge awareness about what is bitcoin, there are many investors there already and the government prints money as if there is no tomorrow.

wiss19

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It doesn't apply to stocks because stocks are based on companies and if people buy a ton of that stock that cause it to go up, there is a reason why it could be overvalued, if a stock worths 1 dollars but people buy like crazy and stock becomes 2 dollars, that means people are overvaluing it, or let's say it worths 2 dollars per stock and people undervalue it and sell it mostly and price of it becomes 1 dollar, that means it is undervalued.

Bitcoin is not based on anything at all, it is only people buying and selling and nothing else, literally absolutely nothing else, no companies, no corporations, no nations no fiat, it is purely based on people buying and selling and that is it. Which is why they are not even similar to each other at all, there are vast differences.

atjiat

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According to the official statements of Goldman Sachs Bank, the dollar will show a depreciation for a long time and this situation has a very positive effect on bitcoin, since the depreciation of fiat currencies forces a large number of investors to switch to the side of the cryptocurrency market. Of course, the value of the dollar can change in accordance with changes in many factors, which include real US rates, as well as the performance of the economy. But it seems to me that the dollar could strengthen significantly after the National Convention of the Republican Party, which was held on August 24. If, as a result of this event, the gap between Joe Biden and Donald Trump narrows, then the dollar will begin to strengthen.

STT

legendary

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FED statement was yesterday and the take seems to be more weakness for dollar, basically seems like it will lose this recent low and continue on trend to lose value.

https://www.ft.com/content/99e2d049-a585-4a64-b89f-f2f0bb482906

I guess thats helping BTC to continue in the long term in a positive gradient, its a macro measurement not a direction indication and imo we have already lost most of % dollar for this year but just the outlook being negative is enough to encourage speculators in Bitcoin and a variety of assets alternate to dollar and the ongoing QE program.

Ridwan Fauzi

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Quote from: Kelvinid on August 27, 2020, 06:47:37 PM

It just happens that people are now realizing that Bitcoin investment is worth it this time while the pandemic isn't over yet. I'm sure, they'll soon come back investing local stock market once the crisis is done.

Yeah, I heard a several times ago that bitcoin's price movement was like SP 500 but it didn't happen anymore even if we compare with gold price movement bitcoin is more like it. So, we don't need to make the same between conventional asset who actually managed by one party and bitcoin.

But, you may be wrong when you say the investor will back to conventional investment if the economic situation back to normal. Because, as far as I know the intention for investor to store their money for investing is to get money and I'm sure bitcoin has given a lot of profit if they came when the economy crisis appear because bitcoin has risen for more than $6000 for three months back.

Kelvinid

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No, we might say that investors are losing their hands into the stock market and shifted to crypto investment. In fact, not only Bitcoin do the surge but also some altcoins.
Do we think that once US dollar value rises bitcoin value will dump? It certainly not a thing to expect with. It is only a coincidence that it looks like that, the market dumps while Bitcoin price keeps on rising but it is not a factor that wholely affects the trend.

It just happens that people are now realizing that Bitcoin investment is worth it this time while the pandemic isn't over yet. I'm sure, they'll soon come back investing local stock market once the crisis is done.

bitgolden

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Bitcoin falls/rises because of higher/lower "fiat" not just us dollar. I know that us dollar is actually what bitcoin is pegged on and there is really all the talks about how much bitcoin worths with dollar and we calculate the rises and falls like that.

However just because it is pegged to dollar when we are calculating or discussing doesn't mean that is the only thing it is affected by. When a third world country has a bad economy, the people there go into crypto as well to save their money too, that is really the only thing you can hope for and I believe there is really no reason to just think dollar is the only thing that affects it. So by all means us dollar do effect bitcoin but that doesn't mean that others do not, all fiats do end up effecting bitcoin and its price.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Finestream on August 17, 2020, 05:15:41 PM

Quote from: RealMalatesta on August 17, 2020, 05:10:51 PM

Bitcoin rise because bitcoin is a very valuable currency, .....

Bitcoin is always a valuable currency, from almost nothing to $12,000 now, that's the definition of valuable assets.
However, this coin does not only rise all the time, it has its bear and bull market and it's just that we are in the bull market right now, that $12,000 is a good price already, the market keeps bouncing every time it was dumped and that makes this year a good year for bitcoin so far.

So, is it due to USD struggling or the USA economy is? I also think so as we have investors from US who knows where their economy is heading, and they have already find a way to save their investments and that is flowing it to crypto especially on bitcoin.

To me it is clear that both the US dollar and their economy is struggling, it seems the politicians think that they can print as many dollars as they want and that there are not going to be repercussions in the future, there are some countries that are already avoiding the US dollar on their transactions and instead they are exchanging their own currencies and if this tendency continues then the dominance of the US dollar is going to diminish weakening its economy in the process.

And when you add that the United States has been one of the countries that has been hit the hardest by the pandemic and that tens of million of people lost their jobs and that those jobs are probably not going to be recovered in a very long time then we can conclude the economy of the United States is going to be in trouble for some time.

exstasie

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Quote from: el kaka22 on August 20, 2020, 09:58:40 AM

Secondly and most importantly, bitcoin is something that goes up when people buy more bitcoin than they sell it, there is literally NOTHING else that would make it go up, this is not a company, this is not a stock or share, this is bitcoin and the price only changes depending on how people trade it and that's it.

The same thing applies to any investment asset, including stocks. Stocks have a limited number of shares issued so they are ruled by supply and demand, just the same as Bitcoin.

Quote from: el kaka22 on August 20, 2020, 09:58:40 AM

This means if dollar gains value or loses value is irrelevant

Personally I am skeptical of a concrete causal connection, but it's definitely possible. There is lots of capital tied up in dollar-denominated debt and bonds. As yields drop, it only makes sense that those investors exit for markets with better returns, meaning risk assets like stocks, BTC, and gold.

el kaka22

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You have to realize two things, first of all lets say that dollar going down could effect bitcoin, that is not really important but lets say that is true, would that also mean bitcoin would go down if dollar gains some strength?

Secondly and most importantly, bitcoin is something that goes up when people buy more bitcoin than they sell it, there is literally NOTHING else that would make it go up, this is not a company, this is not a stock or share, this is bitcoin and the price only changes depending on how people trade it and that's it.

This means if dollar gains value or loses value is irrelevant, if people see dollar losing value and comes to crypto that could be the situation but even there people sees dollar lose value but they do end up buying bitcoin which is the only thing that makes it go up.

shoreno

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on August 18, 2020, 03:01:30 PM

Weakening of US dollar value is not contributing towards the bullish trend on bitcoin, it is just due to the people are moving to the assets from theor cash deposits and it is happening everywhere in the world.

what if people use thier dollar to buy btc ? but im not sure if dollars value can lower that way because that how crypto work . when you spend your crypto the overall value of crypto decrease but one thing is for sure and that is the btc value increase when people purchase it .

Quote from: DeathAngel on August 19, 2020, 10:02:02 AM

The entire fiat system is collapsing in front of our very eyes. This is only the beginning, bitcoin is the key to your financial security. Do not get left in the cold as a debt slave.

we cant be sure with that because btc can also collapse as much as fiat do but the collapse of fiat system give people an idea to invest on btc and other assets for security purpose .

royalfestus

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Bitcoin is a reliable asset and has shown to at least make profit to every investor in 3 years irrespective of how high the price of the purchase was. THose time of bull run there was no pandemic and the value of dollar was good, I dont understand how the devalution of dollar at the this time made the different. DEFI wasn't responsible and ethereum wasnt relevant in the OP's opinion. The devaluation of dollar is for time and I believe things will get back after USA election, either Trump wins or lose

exstasie

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Quote from: Rune on August 16, 2020, 03:05:31 PM

It's obviously going up due to the self fulfilling prophecy of the halving it does it every single time because people with money know they can keep this pattern going and pump it after the halving.
They will keep doing this until the price gets to high to pump any longer.

Or it's just organic supply and demand. How could we tell the difference? That's the problem with conspiracy theories about whales. They can't be proven one way or the other.

Quote from: Rune on August 16, 2020, 03:05:31 PM

I am skeptical of Tether and websites like bitmex having a lot of control over the price.

I am skeptical Bitmex has as much control over the price as people think. As for Tether, they and Bitfinex represent a massive chunk of the crypto economy in terms of volume and liquidity. Those will always be determining factors for price discovery.

DeathAngel

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The entire fiat system is collapsing in front of our very eyes. This is only the beginning, bitcoin is the key to your financial security. Do not get left in the cold as a debt slave.

carlfebz2

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Quote from: Viscore on August 18, 2020, 10:08:25 AM

We have witnessed the last 2017 Bullrun but we don't hear about the declining sentiment of USD before. It is just like it happens today, we can't either to say that USD losing its value, no it is not. What I see this is that people are investing Bitcoin this time, quite different in the past days. Nothing it correlates with the low market demand for USD cos it never looks like that and it seems too far for a real happening.

People do really love on correlating things even if it isnt really that relevant nor does have any sense at all if we do consider on how the market behaves.Its totally unpredictable and

theres no sentiment or factors can really be precisely based of for it to become a reason on the current movement we are into.Lower US dollar value? Im not saying its irrelevant but

people shouldnt really easily believe on this kind of reasoning.Whatever the reason is, its still unknown to anybody but its good to look at these kind of numbers once again.

hulla

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Lower in the price of dollars doesnt contributed to the surge in price of bitcoin cause US dollars have experienced some lower price before the pandemic and it does not impact any surge in price and what I believe lower price of USD impacted was the price of Gold.
Which I believe Buffet investment in gold is enough as an example.

Different people with different viewpoint.

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