Bitcoin Savings and Trust is probably a Ponzi Scheme: A Petition - page 4.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

Quote from: PatrickHarnett on May 17, 2012, 09:06:58 PM

Quote from: JoelKatz on May 17, 2012, 01:10:03 AM

To be a bit more precise about my position, I don't think it's a Ponzi because it doesn't fit the pattern of a Ponzi very well -- at least, not yet. However, I cannot imagine anything legitimate that it could possibly be.

Update: Also, I can't imagine it being wise to invest in something when you have absolutely no basis on which to estimate the level of risk involved.

Mega lol - tell that to JP Morgan. $2B (or maybe three billion- they are not sure yet) They don't know how to estimate risk either.

Exactly. If you can't estimate risk, don't invest.

PatrickHarnett

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Quote from: JoelKatz on May 17, 2012, 01:10:03 AM

To be a bit more precise about my position, I don't think it's a Ponzi because it doesn't fit the pattern of a Ponzi very well -- at least, not yet. However, I cannot imagine anything legitimate that it could possibly be.

Update: Also, I can't imagine it being wise to invest in something when you have absolutely no basis on which to estimate the level of risk involved.

Mega lol - tell that to JP Morgan. $2B (or maybe three billion- they are not sure yet) They don't know how to estimate risk either.

publio

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Good point, but then the thread title should be renamed to Is BS&T a Ponzi?

Blazr

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Quote from: ?? on ??

bitcoins are not illegal in the usa

That not entirely true. It all depends on the way the law is interpreted (especially when looking at anti-money laundering laws). Its a grey area at the moment.

Maged

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Quote from: ?? on ??

bitcoins are not illegal in the usa so i highly doubt he will get jailed (or shot). however if btc becomes illegal i would think about taking most my btc from pirates bank.

obama wont shoot pirate just to hurt palin, that is just silly.

Bitcoins aren't illegal, but if this isn't a ponzi, it most certainly involves something illegal - most likely the drug trade.

MrTeal

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Even if it's not a ponzi, I can't see how it's not a high risk endeavor. Pirate pays out 3300%EAR, it stands to reason his rate would be a higher or he isn't making any money. There aren't a whole lot of safe ways to make that kind of return. Granted I don't know much about his operation as I have very little exposure to his operation, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if my PPT bonds became junk because Pirate got shot or ended up in jail.

N12

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Woah Maged, I don’t want to be on record having explicitely said it is not a ponzi. Put me in the unknown camp that leans towards not ponzi. I pretty much share the opinion Patrick and Joel just expressed in the last two posts.

I would never recommend anyone to invest with him since even if it is not a ponzi, it might be risky, or invest in anything for that matter, not even Bitcoins.

Everyone should make his own bets, and my personal bet right now remains the same, though it might change as I continue evaluating things.

JoelKatz

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Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.

To be a bit more precise about my position, I don't think it's a Ponzi because it doesn't fit the pattern of a Ponzi very well -- at least, not yet. However, I cannot imagine anything legitimate that it could possibly be.

Update: Also, I can't imagine it being wise to invest in something when you have absolutely no basis on which to estimate the level of risk involved.

PatrickHarnett

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Wow, that took some counting.

By the way Imsa, I'm not sure it's not a ponzi, it's that I don't have a reason to believe it is one. It might still be, I don't know for definite. Certainly when I opened my account five months ago I considered it, but the concern most people have is if it simply disappears (ponzi or not).

Maybe it's simply a good way to channel presidential campaign funds - vote Palin - the world needs a good laugh.

Maged

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Quote from: PatrickHarnett on May 16, 2012, 10:23:56 PM

So, referring back to the OP, what was the count of those that agreed BS&T is a ponzi? It's at least 5 (out of 55000 members). Even Ross Perot polled 18.9%.

This might not be completely accurate, but here's what I've seemed to find in this thread:

Ponzi:
nrd525
MarketNeutral
terrytibbs
Maged
theymos
JoelKatz
Matthew N. Wright
P4man
curious
Sukrim

Not a ponzi:
bitlane
ineededausername
PatrickHarnett
coin_toss
reeses
exahash
Otoh
psy
Tomatocage
sadpandatech

Neutral:
Meni Rosenfeld
jcpham
cytokine

Unknown (leaning towards not a ponzi):
hashking
BurtW
imsaguy
znort987
splatster
johnthedong
farfiman
miscreanity
ShadowAlexey
Chaang Noi (Goat) ช้างน้อย

Unknown (leaning towards ponzi):
pekv2

So, out of the people that had some kind of opinion, approximately 30.5% of posters here believe that it is a ponzi, 61.1% think it's not, and 8.3% are neutral.

PatrickHarnett

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So, referring back to the OP, what was the count of those that agreed BS&T is a ponzi? It's at least 5 (out of 55000 members). Even Ross Perot polled 18.9%.

sadpandatech

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: sadpandatech on May 16, 2012, 01:59:10 PM

Quote from: ShadowAlexey on May 16, 2012, 01:18:40 PM

Dont you miss a point that it is difficult to get funds, because bitcoin is unstable and there are others who want to borrow funds at your "normal" rate?
And if you can get more by having more btc available for sale?

aye, they all know that as it was covered extensively when he was first asked why the need for garunteed available funds. people are quick to forget.

and stop pming me to ask zomg, how 75%.. hehehehehehehe ask him. Kiss

pirate wakes up with 347 PMs, lulz!

RAWR RAWR

sadpandatech

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Quote from: ShadowAlexey on May 16, 2012, 01:18:40 PM

Dont you miss a point that it is difficult to get funds, because bitcoin is unstable and there are others who want to borrow funds at your "normal" rate?
And if you can get more by having more btc available for sale?

aye, they all know that as it was covered extensively when he was first asked why the need for garunteed available funds. people are quick to forget.

and stop pming me to ask zomg, how 75%.. hehehehehehehe ask him. Kiss

ShadowAlexey

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Dont you miss a point that it is difficult to get funds, because bitcoin is unstable and there are others who want to borrow funds at your "normal" rate?
And if you can get more by having more btc available for sale?
It all depends on how much btc are people ready to buy in bulk and how much does Pirate have. Any way even if he is running ponzi I dont think that he is not investing in something like MMM, thats how he can get profit without any trouble,but we should be ready for everything,or hope that Pirate one day will provide info about his exchange with some details to check.

sadpandatech

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Quote from: P4man on May 16, 2012, 03:36:24 AM

Quote from: sadpandatech on May 15, 2012, 11:12:50 AM

if you knew what his biz model is, selling your placed coins at almost 76% markup then you would not start threads like this.

If anyone knows how to sell bitcoins for a 76% markup, I figure they'd be doing just that themselves, rather than lending pirate money. So Im assuming anyone depositing their money at Pirate doesnt have a clue either.

And if pirate knows how to sell seemingly unlimited amounts of bitcoins at a 76% markup, why does he still need to borrow? He will have to buy those bitcoins back anyway, since you say he is selling the coins he borrows. Surely he wouldnt sell other people's coins without replenishing them at some point, right? So whats the point of borrowing? It only means he has to buy many more coins on an exchange or otherwise and waste a massive amount of profit on paying interest fees. Unless of course, he is replenishing his sold bitcoins by borrowing more. Thats a business model I do understand.

I like cheese. =)

P4man

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Quote from: sadpandatech on May 15, 2012, 11:12:50 AM

if you knew what his biz model is, selling your placed coins at almost 76% markup then you would not start threads like this.

If anyone knows how to sell bitcoins for a 76% markup, I figure they'd be doing just that themselves, rather than lending pirate money. So Im assuming anyone depositing their money at Pirate doesnt have a clue either.

And if pirate knows how to sell seemingly unlimited amounts of bitcoins at a 76% markup, why does he still need to borrow? He will have to buy those bitcoins back anyway, since you say he is selling the coins he borrows. Surely he wouldnt sell other people's coins without replenishing them at some point, right? So whats the point of borrowing? It only means he has to buy many more coins on an exchange or otherwise and waste a massive amount of profit on paying interest fees. Unless of course, he is replenishing his sold bitcoins by borrowing more. Thats a business model I do understand.

imsaguy

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Don't send me a pm unless you gpg encrypt it.

Quote from: bitlane on May 15, 2012, 03:47:49 PM

Shouldn't you guys be slipping on your tinfoil hats and heading back over to crucify zhoutong and Intersango for stealing Christmas ?
I recently came across information that points directly to Intersango being the 3rd gunman on the grassy knoll as well as zhoutong knowing about 9/11 BEFORE it happened.....and may have remotely flown one of the highjacked planes (the one headed for Santa's Workshop, but never arrived due to the passengers fighting back).

You should all hurry over there NOW !

I must admit however, it is nice to see equal opportunity trolling on this forum....never putting all of your 'flames' into 1 basket.

Good job guys !

subed.

bitlane

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I heart thebaron

Shouldn't you guys be slipping on your tinfoil hats and heading back over to crucify zhoutong and Intersango for stealing Christmas ?
I recently came across information that points directly to Intersango being the 3rd gunman on the grassy knoll as well as zhoutong knowing about 9/11 BEFORE it happened.....and may have remotely flown one of the highjacked planes (the one headed for Santa's Workshop, but never arrived due to the passengers fighting back).

You should all hurry over there NOW !

I must admit however, it is nice to see equal opportunity trolling on this forum....never putting all of your 'flames' into 1 basket.

Good job guys !

Raoul Duke

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Quote from: sadpandatech on May 15, 2012, 11:12:50 AM

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Pirate bank = fail proof.. UNLESS>>> dun dun dun, the market is closed up by the gov. in which case we're all doomed...

if you knew what his biz model is, selling your placed coins at almost 76% markup then you would not start threads like this.

and who gives a shit who he is irl??

cheers

ROTFL

sadpandatech

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wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Pirate bank = fail proof.. UNLESS>>> dun dun dun, the market is closed up by the gov. in which case we're all doomed...

if you knew what his biz model is, selling your placed coins at almost 76% markup then you would not start threads like this.

and who gives a shit who he is irl??

cheers

Topic: Bitcoin Savings and Trust is probably a Ponzi Scheme: A Petition - page 4. (Read 25616 times)