Bitcoin should NOT determine the market - page 15.

MrCrank

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 09:06:11 PM

I really really love crypto but I think it is not a good thing that the price of BTC determines what the entire market does. I feel like there should be something done that makes the crypto market more decentralized where the price of BTC doesn't swing the market up and down there should be some sort of better system put in place otherwise we are just creating a system that is just the same as the current fiat system we have where the most "trusted/valuable" asset determines the entire market.

Just some thoughts, what do yall think??

Bitcoin control price of all altcoins. It's true.
I think this is normal situation.
BTC price determine Altcoin price = altcoin/BTC

Denker

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 09:06:11 PM

I really really love crypto but I think it is not a good thing that the price of BTC determines what the entire market does. I feel like there should be something done that makes the crypto market more decentralized where the price of BTC doesn't swing the market up and down there should be some sort of better system put in place otherwise we are just creating a system that is just the same as the current fiat system we have where the most "trusted/valuable" asset determines the entire market.

Just some thoughts, what do yall think??

So are you whining about the USD in Forex too then??
Bitcoin is the most traded coin. It was the first one, so has the first mover advantage and an overwhelming network effect.
Even if exchanges like Binance would allow altcoin/USD pairs I'm pretty sure the situation wouldn't change that much.
Because in the end people will convert their altcoin profits into BTC! All the crypto OGs will tell you that. They trade and speculate with altcoins to make more BTC! Because BTC is what matters in the end. Like that or not.

Angle22

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It is clear that the bitcoin is in the blockchain system, the blockchain system is not controlled by humans. We can not regulate and tweak the bitcoin system, and the butcoin price is only determined by the market.

aksay79

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Quote from: sakahayang on June 03, 2018, 10:12:30 PM

I think so too, because it would be very dangerous if the price is determined by the market. but if the price can be determined by an individual or a group of people then bitcoin its no longer a decentralized-based blockchain system but centralization, where the centralization system is governed by one person only and if this happens it will be more harmful to users bitcoin.
In conclusion, the price issue is determined by the market is that many sell bitcoin due to panic when there is bad news affecting bitcoin prices. and this can not be controlled, given the bitcoin is completely determined by its users.
and the solution is self-awareness, not to sell bitcoin because panic because panic will make a loss for himself.

Yes I mean isn't that what is happening now? There are organizations/people like roger ver or mt gox that can manipulate the price of BTC with the large amounts of BTC they hold?

yes that's right you say, behind the rise and fall of the btc price is the game form of most bitcoin holders, they can create big dumps and also big pumps with their lot of capital, the market surely has the effect of their actions

BitcoinNewbie15

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 09:06:11 PM

I really really love crypto but I think it is not a good thing that the price of BTC determines what the entire market does. I feel like there should be something done that makes the crypto market more decentralized where the price of BTC doesn't swing the market up and down there should be some sort of better system put in place otherwise we are just creating a system that is just the same as the current fiat system we have where the most "trusted/valuable" asset determines the entire market.

Just some thoughts, what do yall think??

Eventually the market will not follow Bitcoin. Currently, there are hardly any fiat pairs. Most other coins need to be bought with Bitcoin. Once more fiat trading pairs are opened up on various exchanges, other coins will likely decouple themselves from Bitcoin.

stompix

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 04, 2018, 11:21:35 AM

Y
Yes you told me "I love how you contradict yourself" it's an insult saying IDK what I'm doing/saying being a contradiction.

Grow up, this is not kindergarten!!!

Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 04, 2018, 11:21:35 AM

All I'm saying is there should NOT be ONE currency that dictates an entire market that is not good it gives too much power to people that have a lot of BTC which is exactly why BTC was created to take power out of the hands of small groups of people. But with BTC determining the entire crypto market it makes for a very centralized market even though BTC is "decentralized" it really isn't if wales could manipulate the market like we see all the time... Then the only advantage we have over fiat is that it is finite and more can't be created.

The $ is king because the US economy is the king of the global economies.
That's the simple reasons for it, people trust the $, that's why they deal with it, if the US goes down the whole world is in trouble, and the last crisis proved that pretty well. And it's the same with altcoins.

You seem to be concerned how your altcoin portfolio is influenced by the BTC whales.
Well, it's not the BTC whales that sell cheapcoin,meloncoin,uselesscoin and copycatcoin when BTC goes down.
It's the alt holders, so your issue should be exactly with the ones holding alts.

Basically, their trust in altcoins is so low that a single 10$ drop from BTC is making them poop their pants.
So rather than being angry at BTC and the BTC whales, and the fact that BTC dominates the market you should start doing something with the altcoin believers.
They are the one abandoning ship every time like rats.

adamantasaurus

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Quote from: leviathon on June 04, 2018, 11:23:24 AM

The reason why Bitcoin determines the prices of the whole market is cause it is the entry and exit point of the whole crypto market. If someone has to buy a altcoin or a token than he has to do it by first buying Bitcoin as most of the exchanges have only BTC trading pairs. Until there are other options like USDT or USD trading pairs widely adopted expect the market to move based on Bitcoin prices.

Yes I understand all of that just saying it is not good Wink

gives too much power to one coin (centralization)

adamantasaurus

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Quote from: Kprawn on June 04, 2018, 10:53:36 AM

Well, Why should Bitcoin be any different to any other Commodity or Currency that are currently out there? We are already

struggling to get people to understand that Bitcoin can both be a Currency and a Commodity at the same time, just imagine if

we add something that does not adhere to the basic principles of markets based on Supply & Demand. What is it specifically

about the "Supply & Demand" that is bothering you? {Volatility? Whales?} Huh

It should be different from any other commodity or currency because it is different it is the first of it's kind what other currency has this much volatility what other commodity can you generate more of by running it on a computer (staking) or by running gpus/asics to verify transactions (mining). Crypto is a very unique and interesting concept so that makes it extremely different from anything else so why should it be run like things it is different from?? Maybe don't worry so much about getting people to understand it that time will come most people didn't understand the internet a lot of people still don't and that didn't stop it's progress, although it became more and more user friendly as time went on (i'd imagine the same for crypto)

I LOVE the volatility don't like that the whales can manipulate the market

leviathon

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The reason why Bitcoin determines the prices of the whole market is cause it is the entry and exit point of the whole crypto market. If someone has to buy a altcoin or a token than he has to do it by first buying Bitcoin as most of the exchanges have only BTC trading pairs. Until there are other options like USDT or USD trading pairs widely adopted expect the market to move based on Bitcoin prices.

adamantasaurus

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Quote from: stompix on June 04, 2018, 10:47:36 AM

I didn't insult you, probably you dreamed that, but yeah I did pick everything apart in what you were saying because it makes no sense.

The market is as decentralized as it can be, people follow the bitcoin price because that's the only thing it matters and is important for them.
What should they follow, bcash? eos? dogecoin? Come with an alternative that would really be taken seriously by as many people as BTC is right now and that's it.

You want to come with a different idea and you want to impose what things that should influence the market, how is that decentralization Huh

Somebody deciding how, when and how much the market should move means control, the total opposite of what you were aiming for.

Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 04, 2018, 10:19:26 AM

Where the most valuable and trusted currencies dictate the world economy get it???

And you think that is wrong?
Maybe all the world should run on bolivars, Russian rubles, and Turkish liras.
Let's see how that economy would look.

Yes you told me "I love how you contradict yourself" it's an insult saying IDK what I'm doing/saying being a contradiction.

No I don't want to impose what things should influence the market I'm just saying that one coin (BTC determining an entire market is not decentralization)

Yes I think that is not good because that makes one thing more valuable than everything else that is how the world is run now the USD is the standard for the world to look at for how the economy is doing which gives the USA a lot of unnecessary power and control over a lot of things. And the opportunity to do some really screwed up things (like completely bankrupt a country if they don't like their politics or w/e)

All I'm saying is there should NOT be ONE currency that dictates an entire market that is not good it gives too much power to people that have a lot of BTC which is exactly why BTC was created to take power out of the hands of small groups of people. But with BTC determining the entire crypto market it makes for a very centralized market even though BTC is "decentralized" it really isn't if wales could manipulate the market like we see all the time... Then the only advantage we have over fiat is that it is finite and more can't be created.

BrewMaster

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM

Yes but don't you think most people are buying btc because it is the one that is mainly traded for alts? That's why I buy BTC I don't really hold btc I hodl alts. And use btc to secure my earning that I don't want to fluctuate too much.

this only makes YOU an exception. don't presume others are doing the same as you do.
also don't confuse all the discussions here with the following:
there are a lot of people who are buying (accumulating or bag holding) a lot of altcoins only BECAUSE they think if they hold something that is worth so little they will become rich when that thing grows as big as bitcoin. in other words they think just because some day bitcoin was worth nothing and now is worth $XXXX then the coin they are holding can do the same.
this is very different from investing in altcoins because they have a REAL future and it certainly doesn't mean these altcoins will go up.

ps. at the end of the day it doesn't matter what you and i think and what we say should or should not happen. the reality is that altcoins get dumped when bitcoin goes down.

Kprawn

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Well, Why should Bitcoin be any different to any other Commodity or Currency that are currently out there? We are already

struggling to get people to understand that Bitcoin can both be a Currency and a Commodity at the same time, just imagine if

we add something that does not adhere to the basic principles of markets based on Supply & Demand. What is it specifically

about the "Supply & Demand" that is bothering you? {Volatility? Whales?} Huh

stompix

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 04, 2018, 10:19:26 AM

SO before you start insulting me maybe you should try to contribute to the discussion instead of trying to pick everything apart another person says..... JEEZE!

I didn't insult you, probably you dreamed that, but yeah I did pick everything apart in what you were saying because it makes no sense.

The market is as decentralized as it can be, people follow the bitcoin price because that's the only thing it matters and is important for them.
What should they follow, bcash? eos? dogecoin? Come with an alternative that would really be taken seriously by as many people as BTC is right now and that's it.

You want to come with a different idea and you want to impose what things that should influence the market, how is that decentralization Huh

Somebody deciding how, when and how much the market should move means control, the total opposite of what you were aiming for.

Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 04, 2018, 10:19:26 AM

Where the most valuable and trusted currencies dictate the world economy get it???

And you think that is wrong?
Maybe all the world should run on bolivars, Russian rubles, and Turkish liras.
Let's see how that economy would look.

Ps. use multi-quotes, not one post for each reply.

adamantasaurus

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Quote from: batang_bitcoin on June 04, 2018, 01:22:18 AM

What would be that sort of better system?

Fiat system is being run and created by the government while bitcoin does have it's made limit to 21 million coins only. Try to think about speculations and other things that affects its market.

Im not quite sure what the better system would be yet, but just a thought that one should be created. We are essentialy copying the current money system in place where a small percentage of people have a large amount of the wealth (bitmain roger ver exchanges mt gox etc. etc.) And because those small percentage of people have the most btc they can swing this market in their favor at anytime.... There has to be a better way otherwise it is pointless and are just ensuring the same bullshit that has been going on for the past millennium.

adamantasaurus

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Quote from: stompix on June 04, 2018, 02:24:22 AM

Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 09:06:11 PM

I feel like there should be something done that makes the crypto market more decentralized where the price of BTC doesn't swing the market up and down there should be some sort of better system put in place otherwise we are just creating a system that is just the same as the current fiat system we have where the most "trusted/valuable" asset determines the entire market.

Make the crypto market better by decentralizing it, more like the fiat system.
Wow!

Second, the most trusted/valuable assets should dictate the price.
Weel isn't BTC the most trustable and valuable?
Who do you want to decide the price, those crappy shitcoins, and tokens that are probably going to die next year?
The very fact that they follow the price of BTC is proof they're surviving only because of the BTC hype.
Without BTC all the altcoins would be dead by now.

Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM

Yes but don't you think most people are buying btc because it is the one that is mainly traded for alts? That's why I buy BTC I don't really hold btc I hodl alts. And use btc to secure my earning that I don't want to fluctuate too much.

God, I love how you managed to contradict yourself in just two posts.

I think you misunderstood my post, I was saying I don't want it to be like the fiat system, YES I understand btc is the most trusted/valuable asset in the space and that is why it determines the market I understand that 100% I was just saying that is JUST like the fiat system. Where the most valuable and trusted currencies dictate the world economy get it??? I was saying there should be a better system put in place (Do I have the answer to that problem no I don't Never said I did either) just sharing the idea that something better should be created instead of an economy that is dependant on one currency to determine the value of that economy THAT IS CENTRALIZATION. The crypto market is centralized around the price of BTC is what I am saying.

I did not contradict myself, BTC doesn't fluctuate nearly as much as altcoins which is why I secure my earnings in it. If I wanted something that doesn't fluctuate at all I'd secure them in USD. Just commenting that when btc swings 1-3% some alts swing 10-20%.....

SO before you start insulting me maybe you should try to contribute to the discussion instead of trying to pick everything apart another person says..... JEEZE!

stompix

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 09:06:11 PM

I feel like there should be something done that makes the crypto market more decentralized where the price of BTC doesn't swing the market up and down there should be some sort of better system put in place otherwise we are just creating a system that is just the same as the current fiat system we have where the most "trusted/valuable" asset determines the entire market.

Make the crypto market better by decentralizing it, more like the fiat system.
Wow!

Second, the most trusted/valuable assets should dictate the price.
Weel isn't BTC the most trustable and valuable?
Who do you want to decide the price, those crappy shitcoins, and tokens that are probably going to die next year?
The very fact that they follow the price of BTC is proof they're surviving only because of the BTC hype.
Without BTC all the altcoins would be dead by now.

Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM

Yes but don't you think most people are buying btc because it is the one that is mainly traded for alts? That's why I buy BTC I don't really hold btc I hodl alts. And use btc to secure my earning that I don't want to fluctuate too much.

God, I love how you managed to contradict yourself in just two posts.

batang_bitcoin

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What would be that sort of better system?

Fiat system is being run and created by the government while bitcoin does have it's made limit to 21 million coins only. Try to think about speculations and other things that affects its market.

mk4

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Quote from: adamantasaurus on June 03, 2018, 10:25:08 PM

Quote from: mk4 on June 03, 2018, 09:42:52 PM

This will continue to happen unless bitcoin loses dominance. When people buy crypto, what do they usually buy first? Bitcoin. Simply because bitcoin has the highest amount of adoption compared to all other coins/tokens combined. Will this change in the future? Maybe. Maybe not. Probably if we get a good and safe stablecoin.

Yes but don't you think most people are buying btc because it is the one that is mainly traded for alts? That's why I buy BTC I don't really hold btc I hodl alts. And use btc to secure my earning that I don't want to fluctuate too much.

Well bitcoin is the main trading pair for most if not all coins and tokens, but that's not the main reason why bitcoin is being bought. A good number of people are still investing in bitcoin only(no alts), and believe it or not some people actually use bitcoin for transactions.

adamantasaurus

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Quote from: mk4 on June 03, 2018, 09:42:52 PM

This will continue to happen unless bitcoin loses dominance. When people buy crypto, what do they usually buy first? Bitcoin. Simply because bitcoin has the highest amount of adoption compared to all other coins/tokens combined. Will this change in the future? Maybe. Maybe not. Probably if we get a good and safe stablecoin.

Yes but don't you think most people are buying btc because it is the one that is mainly traded for alts? That's why I buy BTC I don't really hold btc I hodl alts. And use btc to secure my earning that I don't want to fluctuate too much.

sakahayang

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I think so too, because it would be very dangerous if the price is determined by the market. but if the price can be determined by an individual or a group of people then bitcoin its no longer a decentralized-based blockchain system but centralization, where the centralization system is governed by one person only and if this happens it will be more harmful to users bitcoin.
In conclusion, the price issue is determined by the market is that many sell bitcoin due to panic when there is bad news affecting bitcoin prices. and this can not be controlled, given the bitcoin is completely determined by its users.
and the solution is self-awareness, not to sell bitcoin because panic because panic will make a loss for himself.

Topic: Bitcoin should NOT determine the market - page 15. (Read 2990 times)