Topic: Bitcoin simply are not worth ($10 or $9 or $8) - page 2. (Read 7703 times)

I've been reading this thread https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/reddit-the-real-cost-of-bitcoin-breaking-down-the-math-36687 [Reddit] The Real cost of Bitcoin? - Breaking Down the Math I agree with a few of the posters that the numbers are manipulated in the fact that the bitcoin system can handle many more transactions than what is currently used, without any increased overall cost, resulting in a decreased cost per transaction.

This highlights a problem with 'miners' though.  Their supply far exceeds the demand.  They have to consume massive resources in order to obtain the 50 BTC reward and in order to become profitable they need to sell BTC at gouged rate on the markets.  The plain fact of the matter is that BTC is not worth that much, and that much power is not necessary to sustain the system.

It's expected that after the mining pool is tapped at 21,000,000 BTC that the miners will hemorrhage unnecessary miners as supply falls to meet demand levels.  The current situation though is that as 'miners' pump more processing power into the pool, they will have to gouge the price of BTC to keep running at a profit.

Quite simply I don't think it's ethical to be purchasing BTC at these rates unless you have a legitimate need for them.  I also speculate that this will catch up with miners, they are essentially pegging the bitcoin to the electricity and equipment involved (not unreasonable) and then throwing in as much electricity and equipment as they can get their hands on (in essence, the decentralized bank can do stupid shit too when the buyers let it.)

I fail to see how "ethics" applies to capitalism at all.  We are dealing with raw capitalism here, not your feelings.  If people can make money at it, they will do it.

This is the only comment that added any value whatsoever to the notion that we should have as much Hashing power as we do.

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In my case that is a very safe assumption.  I do not do business with either, for many reasons.

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I don't support the artificial value of BTC, don't buy BTC at ridiculous prices.  Let Miners learn the lesson banks wouldn't.  The Supply has outgrown Dema

You guys forgot to mention network security (look up the 51% attack) What is the cost of security and how do you even go about measuring it?

In essence I'm taking a Green stand on purchasing bitcoin.

I realize this is on the FAQ, but when whining about power used to run the bitcoin network have you considered the power used to run banks?  The gasoline used by bank tellers to commute every day?  The amount of industrial waste generated when producing armored cars, credit cards, deposit slips and even uniforms and guns for police acting as a deterrent to bank robbery?

Bitcoins are by far the most eco-friendly currency at the moment.  The amount of resources to support the entire bitcoin network is could very well be less than the total carbon footprint of a *SINGLE* bank branch office let alone something like the Citibank headquarters.

If your argument boils down to being green then you'd be a completely "unethical" hypocrite if you didn't convert all your conventional currency into bitcoin this instant.

That may or may not be, but that has zero effect on the price of BTC.

He means the electricity used in mining?  Jesus, that's a drop in the bucket compared to just about anything else.  The air conditioners in the USA right now, or driving to work, or all the TV's on right now in the USA alone.  Or the power used at Disneyland.

Get over it dude, you can pick on a million more important things.

Tree hugger.     (that last was a joke - Ridi seems kinds thick, so I wanted to make it explicit  )

I thought that too, but then I realized his ethical argument was tied into "too much fucking resource consumption."  In other words, he thinks its morally wrong to rape the planet of its resources for Bitcoins.

I fail to see how "ethics" applies to capitalism at all.  We are dealing with raw capitalism here, not your feelings.  If people can make money at it, they will do it.

Markets are a two way street.  That is basic economics.  You're example about the Hash Rate falling is exactly what I'm talking about.  My ethics say 11.9 is way too fucking much resource consumption for something that will still produce just fine a 2 or 3.  I plan to advocate that until the price reaches a point low enough to force our obese bitcoin miner baby to a healthy rate.

And what do you know, I'm not buying, I don't see why you are arguing my point.  Unless you think that speculation is the only reason a person would buy or sell.

Bingo.  If someone is willing to pay $1,000,000 for it, how is that unethical?  People place the value they want to place upon something.  Nobody is forcing them to buy, and yet, they are buying.

I could charge you $1,000,000 per BTC, and even then, how would that be unethical?  If you don't want it, don't buy it.

How does "market buy-side adjusts to protect the miners profitability." ?  This does not happen.  Just last week, when BTC went down below $10 and stayed there, many miners got out.  The network total hashrate went from over 15 THashes/s to below 12.  Right this second it's at 11.925 Thashes/s

Mining follows price, not the other way around.

The "market buy-side" protects it's own profitability, not the miner's.  That's just basic economics.  BTC traders trade because they think THEY can make money.  They buy or sell to enrich themselves.  They are not some charity for miners.

To re-iterate my point, it is the supply of Miners (or particularly processing power), not the supply of bitcoin, that I am concerned with.  Mining requires massive amounts of power which should serve to limit the amount of miners joining the pool.  Instead the market buy-side adjusts to protect the miners profitability.