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Topic: Bitcoin snack machine (fast transaction problem) (Read 54789 times)

member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Aw. I thought you were actually going to post an actual photo of a Bitcoin snack machine. Either way, this discussion is fine without it.


I think it'd work by entering a code, entering your address then taking the funds out to give you a candy bar.
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
You can do it like in Japan with those IC cards you can recharge with FIAT (SUICA, PASMO). Just make it works with Bitcoin, load a card you can use everywhere (vending machine, convenience stores etc.) and it will work well. Of course, that does mean a 3rd party is involved with off-chain transactions.
Or we can just wait until developers figure out how to make fast and secure transactions for everyday expenses.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 4453
>>Proudly cycling merits for Team Foxpup<<
And how much for the transaction fee?  I don't know, this is kind of like the idea of the bitcoin arcade that was floated on here recently.  It's just so much easier to use quarters or dimes in a vending machine.  And pocket change is completely anonymous unless the vending machine has a camera on it.  There are some things bitcoin is not practical for, and this is one of them.
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Double spend and get free snacks all-day. A lot would actually do this which makes the no confirms possibly a bad idea.
sr. member
Activity: 474
Merit: 250
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accept 0 confirm, but have a camera taking buyer face, and having show ID, and have an algor to check if both match
If you did that, no one would want to use the snack machine anymore. That process is way too long.
legendary
Activity: 2450
Merit: 2567
@ me if you need my response

Quote
51% attacks are nearly impossible to deter unless the TX is included in a block before the last checkpoint. Other than that, transactions proporgate instantly and brick and motar merchants usually release the goods once they verify that there is a high chance that it won't be a double spend.

Because payment processors Smiley
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/40ejy8/peter_todd_with_my_doublespendpy_tool_with/cytut1p

Shapeshift deactivated 0conf as users were exploiting miner's differing policy to accepting transactions. It can easily be migrated by requiring a conf for those TXes that miners are unlikely to accept. ATMs are the likely victims and for vending machines, not so much.  The double spend above is more for 0 conf than 1conf+. It is safe to assume that transactions with 1 confirmations are hard to reverse unless there's a fork.
full member
Activity: 206
Merit: 100
We could have 10GB blocks and a Million nodes and we should still have an average wait time of 10 minutes for each confirmation with a recommended minimum of 10 confirmations before you consider your transaction complete and irreversible; for this reason Bitcoin will never be used for payment in a snack machine.
The price of a snack is an acceptable risk to accept payments with 0 confirmations.
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1004
You can wait until the lightning network is working so we can have this type of super fast 0 confirmation while secure payments, until then i would not worry a lot about it, we can't deal with this type of thing using on-chain transactions.
legendary
Activity: 2310
Merit: 1223
You need to wait 10 minutes. Best create a website where person can order the food in advance and buy it for write a password to the machine.

I think this is the best solution.

And also I think that creating such Bitcoin snack machine nowadays may be a good start for a business: people would use the opportunity to buy a snack with Bitcoin even if they normally wouldn't the buy snack, just for fun. Someone should try to make it real.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Bitcoin will never be instant regardless of block size or network configuration. The number of nodes has nothing to do with confirmation times.

We could have 10GB blocks and a Million nodes and we should still have an average wait time of 10 minutes for each confirmation with a recommended minimum of 10 confirmations before you consider your transaction complete and irreversible; Shocked for this reason Bitcoin will never be used for payment in a snack machine.
Nearly instant, they said... Sad
Actually, 6 confirmations is pretty much secure with the only risk being major block re-org and 51% attack, both of which are hard to execute.

Only an hour then. cool beans.

Quote
51% attacks are nearly impossible to deter unless the TX is included in a block before the last checkpoint. Other than that, transactions proporgate instantly and brick and motar merchants usually release the goods once they verify that there is a high chance that it won't be a double spend.

Because payment processors Smiley
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/40ejy8/peter_todd_with_my_doublespendpy_tool_with/cytut1p
legendary
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
You need to wait 10 minutes. Best create a website where person can order the food in advance and buy it for write a password to the machine.
I think this will be good option to give instant service. Bitcoin payment can be good option for online ordering service, you order and get things delivered. Or it can be using multisign address to pay fully after both parties agree to do deal.
legendary
Activity: 1288
Merit: 1056
Bitcoin will never be instant regardless of block size or network configuration. The number of nodes has nothing to do with confirmation times.

We could have 10GB blocks and a Million nodes and we should still have an average wait time of 10 minutes for each confirmation with a recommended minimum of 10 confirmations before you consider your transaction complete and irreversible; for this reason Bitcoin will never be used for payment in a snack machine.

"Never say Never".. Do you know how many people have eaten their words by so arrogantly blurting out things like that?

Confirmations flood in fairly quickly, and IMO bitcoin isn't ready for "mass-adoption". Obviously the capabilities of the protocol aren't perfected, because this is a work in progress. Bitcoin is being improved every single day, gaining attention, supporters and developers.

Imagine how many people 200-years ago we're talking about the impossibilities of a snack machine AT ALL, because nobody could be trusted to leave the cash, or because "In-The-Air" transactions weren't "possible".
legendary
Activity: 2450
Merit: 2567
@ me if you need my response
Bitcoin will never be instant regardless of block size or network configuration. The number of nodes has nothing to do with confirmation times.

We could have 10GB blocks and a Million nodes and we should still have an average wait time of 10 minutes for each confirmation with a recommended minimum of 10 confirmations before you consider your transaction complete and irreversible; Shocked for this reason Bitcoin will never be used for payment in a snack machine.
Nearly instant, they said... Sad
Actually, 6 confirmations is pretty much secure with the only risk being major block re-org and 51% attack, both of which are hard to execute. 51% attacks are nearly impossible to deter unless the TX is included in a block before the last checkpoint. Other than that, transactions proporgate instantly and brick and motar merchants usually release the goods once they verify that there is a high chance that it won't be a double spend.
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
Bitcoin will never be instant regardless of block size or network configuration. The number of nodes has nothing to do with confirmation times.

We could have 10GB blocks and a Million nodes and we should still have an average wait time of 10 minutes for each confirmation with a recommended minimum of 10 confirmations before you consider your transaction complete and irreversible; Shocked for this reason Bitcoin will never be used for payment in a snack machine.
Nearly instant, they said... Sad
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1070
This might be achievable if you're using an offchain Payment processor like BitPay or Coinbase to send the payments to, but you get the product usually after few transactions or zero transactions, Maybe I think it's called off chain transactions. I wonder if that could be implemented to speed up the transaction problem with your vending machine.

I do not agree with solutions like this, because we deviating from the Bitcoin path and introducing 3rd party services to solve problems that could have

been solved by our own developers. These guys are testing sidechains and other solutions for problems like these. We have to chose which role, we

want Bitcoin to fill. Option A - Payment processor for micro payments or Option B - Cheaper Remittance service and investment

commodity. If we want to do both, we would need to make some compromises somewhere else.   Sad
hero member
Activity: 616
Merit: 591
This might be achievable if you're using an offchain Payment processor like BitPay or Coinbase to send the payments to, but you get the product usually after few transactions or zero transactions, Maybe I think it's called off chain transactions. I wonder if that could be implemented to speed up the transaction problem with your vending machine.
legendary
Activity: 883
Merit: 1004
Bitcoin will never be instant regardless of block size or network configuration. The number of nodes has nothing to do with confirmation times.

We could have 10GB blocks and a Million nodes and we should still have an average wait time of 10 minutes for each confirmation with a recommended minimum of 10 confirmations before you consider your transaction complete and irreversible; for this reason Bitcoin will never be used for payment in a snack machine.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 258
You need to wait 10 minutes. Best create a website where person can order the food in advance and buy it for write a password to the machine.
legendary
Activity: 2450
Merit: 2567
@ me if you need my response
Just use a off-chain solution like Xapo with instant transaction confirmation. You get people to sign up for a Xapo account and then have them use their Xapo debit card to pay for the stuff they want to purchase from these vending machines.

Once this takes off, Xapo could form a partnership with these vending manufacturers and arrange for discounts on fees for these micro transactions. At this stage all in card spending is free. Correct me if I am wrong.
There's a huge problem with this solution. We're using Bitcoin, not services that uses Bitcoin like a debit card. By giving your coins to Xapo, you are allowing them to monitor your spending habits and even control your coins fully. There are major privacy and security concerns regarding this. Xapo debit cards uses Visa and is thus not fully a Bitcoin solution. Offchain transfers are usually free for everyone. However, a better solution would be to implement counter measures against double spending and still accept 0 conf transactions. The risk is relatively low.
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1575
Just use a off-chain solution like Xapo with instant transaction confirmation. You get people to sign up for a Xapo account and then have them use their Xapo debit card to pay for the stuff they want to purchase from these vending machines.

Once this takes off, Xapo could form a partnership with these vending manufacturers and arrange for discounts on fees for these micro transactions. At this stage all in card spending is free. Correct me if I am wrong.
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