Why would a person found with so called illegal Bitcoin be considered a criminal without investigation & when he/she is not the criminal? Are there laws against the holding of tainted money?
Does the amount of illegal fiat currency in circulation reduce the value of the total supply of the currency?
Well, If this becomes a serious problem in the future, I guess more people will start mixing their coins or even use lightening network to avoid the problems associated with tainted Bitcoin.
Topic: Bitcoin Store of Value Question - page 2. (Read 339 times)
No one will punish anyone for using bitcoins that was used in crime 20 transactions ago because it will be impossible to prove in court that you had anything in common with crime. Especially if they were mixed by mixing services or even mixed in organic way:
1- 200$ bitcoins from crime send to me to wallet on which I store 1000$ crime free bitcoins (17% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime)
2- I have transfer 1200$ to exchange with 100 000$ bitcoins in hot wallet. I've bought LTC for longer hold (0,002% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime)
3- someone withdraw 1000 BTC from exchange to new created wallet (0,002% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime).
4- this guy is running an ICO and send 10 BTC to bounty manager to run bounty (0,002% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime).
5- This guy started signature campaign and paid 300$ in bitcoin to you on your bitcoin wallet on which you store 1000$ crime free bitcoins. (0,0007% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime).
This 200$ in 5 transactions was mixed in a way that your 300$ have direct connection with them, but only 1/142800 of your funds are connected to crime. I can't imagine a court that will punish anyone for receiving a transaction of funds that are in 1/142800 connected with crime.
So in my opinion there is no difference between new coins and existing coins even if they were used in crime long time ago.
1- 200$ bitcoins from crime send to me to wallet on which I store 1000$ crime free bitcoins (17% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime)
2- I have transfer 1200$ to exchange with 100 000$ bitcoins in hot wallet. I've bought LTC for longer hold (0,002% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime)
3- someone withdraw 1000 BTC from exchange to new created wallet (0,002% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime).
4- this guy is running an ICO and send 10 BTC to bounty manager to run bounty (0,002% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime).
5- This guy started signature campaign and paid 300$ in bitcoin to you on your bitcoin wallet on which you store 1000$ crime free bitcoins. (0,0007% concentration of bitcoins derived from crime).
This 200$ in 5 transactions was mixed in a way that your 300$ have direct connection with them, but only 1/142800 of your funds are connected to crime. I can't imagine a court that will punish anyone for receiving a transaction of funds that are in 1/142800 connected with crime.
So in my opinion there is no difference between new coins and existing coins even if they were used in crime long time ago.
As demand goes up, so does the price...
If someone's paying $20k for virgin bitcoins, people will happily buy from exchanges for a lot less...
It might turn into gold too if it's the private keys to the 12.5btc that are sold... So three people could have one key. So people could flock away if they start getting scammed.
If someone's paying $20k for virgin bitcoins, people will happily buy from exchanges for a lot less...
It might turn into gold too if it's the private keys to the 12.5btc that are sold... So three people could have one key. So people could flock away if they start getting scammed.
At the end of the day , there are going to be virgin Bitcoins in circulation , and if there is a private entity that exists out there buying up all the coins , then we will have a supply problem , no?
But the virgins will be tainted at some point --my imagination was thinking something else than Bitcoin, damn.The freshly minted Bitcoin will be spent, mixed, traded, etc., IMO there is no way to separate them for a long period of time. Even if there are whales who hoard freshly minted coins, they need to spend it to buy whatever they want, whenever they want. Hence, the concept of tainted coins is weak.
To me, this question seems like: if my £20 bank notes has trace amounts of cocaine from the person before it, is it worth less?
And also it is generally worth the same amount. You just se epeople trying to haggle on the price if they think it comes from a less legit source... Although sometimes mined crypto ("clean" stuff is worth more, like the bank note with AA00000001 as its serial.
If you look into mixers then they have evil units shared between different outputs, many people use them for fully legal purposes (based on international laws). So one input of illegality can go through the mixer without a trace of where it leaves (if mixed well)... They could then of course mix to xmr, grin or dash too via some online services thst do exchanges without signups.
Many crimes have been linked to bitcoin but not as many as have been linked with cash and financial institutions...
And also it is generally worth the same amount. You just se epeople trying to haggle on the price if they think it comes from a less legit source... Although sometimes mined crypto ("clean" stuff is worth more, like the bank note with AA00000001 as its serial.
If you look into mixers then they have evil units shared between different outputs, many people use them for fully legal purposes (based on international laws). So one input of illegality can go through the mixer without a trace of where it leaves (if mixed well)... They could then of course mix to xmr, grin or dash too via some online services thst do exchanges without signups.
Many crimes have been linked to bitcoin but not as many as have been linked with cash and financial institutions...
I agree with you. Fiat and Financial Institutions should be indicted for all of their crimes , but i digress.
At the end of the day , there are going to be virgin Bitcoins in circulation , and if there is a private entity that exists out there buying up all the coins , then we will have a supply problem , no?
Criminals use Bitcoin! This is a very shallow approach. Don't the same criminal organizations use dollars or gold? I think it's wrong to look at it this way. Bitcoin is already trackable. States can legally allow bitcoin. They can keep track of everything from which wallet is out of money.
For sure. I think that Criminals use fiat / gold as a means of crime. BTC is trackable correct , but i'm just saying that because there are some coins that are deemed "bad" , it makes the other ones that are virgins , more valuable.
Criminals use Bitcoin! This is a very shallow approach. Don't the same criminal organizations use dollars or gold? I think it's wrong to look at it this way. Bitcoin is already trackable. States can legally allow bitcoin. They can keep track of everything from which wallet is out of money.
To me, this question seems like: if my £20 bank notes has trace amounts of cocaine from the person before it, is it worth less?
And also it is generally worth the same amount. You just se epeople trying to haggle on the price if they think it comes from a less legit source... Although sometimes mined crypto ("clean" stuff is worth more, like the bank note with AA00000001 as its serial.
If you look into mixers then they have evil units shared between different outputs, many people use them for fully legal purposes (based on international laws). So one input of illegality can go through the mixer without a trace of where it leaves (if mixed well)... They could then of course mix to xmr, grin or dash too via some online services thst do exchanges without signups.
Many crimes have been linked to bitcoin but not as many as have been linked with cash and financial institutions...
And also it is generally worth the same amount. You just se epeople trying to haggle on the price if they think it comes from a less legit source... Although sometimes mined crypto ("clean" stuff is worth more, like the bank note with AA00000001 as its serial.
If you look into mixers then they have evil units shared between different outputs, many people use them for fully legal purposes (based on international laws). So one input of illegality can go through the mixer without a trace of where it leaves (if mixed well)... They could then of course mix to xmr, grin or dash too via some online services thst do exchanges without signups.
Many crimes have been linked to bitcoin but not as many as have been linked with cash and financial institutions...
So each Bitcoin in the Eco-system today isn't equal. Some Bitcoins were used in a crime , and if they were , they can be worth less because of the transactions that have been facilitated with that specific Bitcoin. And if there was a crime that happened 20 transactions ago , and you now have that specific Bitcoin , can you be indicted for a crime that someone else has committed but you are holding the Bitcoin that is associated with it?
If this is the case , how can we consider at this point , BTC as a store of value?
It's like both of us holding 1KG bar of gold , but mine is worth less than yours but the market agrees to buy BTC at a certain price...
If this is the also the case , doesn't that mean that the demand for virgin Bitcoins more valuable than the other BTC out in circulation and thus , the circulating supply should be different...? How much crime has been associated with the circulating BTC in circulation? and if the "legal" Bitcoin that has been circulated are the only ones that are valuable , then how much would BTC be actually worth?
Is there a metric that determines if a crime has been committed with the association of each Bitcoin in circulation? Could that be a good idea for a new metric?
If this is the case , how can we consider at this point , BTC as a store of value?
It's like both of us holding 1KG bar of gold , but mine is worth less than yours but the market agrees to buy BTC at a certain price...
If this is the also the case , doesn't that mean that the demand for virgin Bitcoins more valuable than the other BTC out in circulation and thus , the circulating supply should be different...? How much crime has been associated with the circulating BTC in circulation? and if the "legal" Bitcoin that has been circulated are the only ones that are valuable , then how much would BTC be actually worth?
Is there a metric that determines if a crime has been committed with the association of each Bitcoin in circulation? Could that be a good idea for a new metric?
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