Bitcoin: The dream of Cypherpunks, libertarians and crypto-anarchists

franky1

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Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on February 25, 2024, 12:40:04 PM

Are you so kind though, to share what was the context for presenting these emails into the Court of Law?

Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on February 26, 2024, 11:26:50 AM

Quote from: cygan on February 25, 2024, 02:24:42 PM

i think the reason for this is that Adam Back has long been suspected of having been involved in the creation of BTCitcoin.
these published e-mails will probably dispel this suspicion...

I understood that Adam Back was connected with Satoshi and some people believed he was the real Satoshi... What I did not understand was why such papers were taken to a Court of Law. A Court of Law should involve a trial, in my opinion, which implied, eventually a trial where Adam Back was involved.

I read the article but I did not see any reference there about such trial... only that the emails were taken to a Court. So I was wondering what is the reason for this... Did anyone sue Adam Back? Did authorities require him to present the emails for some reason? There is nothing stated for what led to the emails being presented to the Court...

im sure after a couple month you worked it out by now
it was about the CSW vs COPA case
where CSW falsely insinuated prolonged involvement with cypherpunks, and adam back had to give evidence of his limited communication with the real satoshi to debunk the CSW false claims of communication depth which CSW falsely claimed to had involvement in as (falsely) satoshi

GazetaBitcoin

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Quote from: cygan on March 18, 2024, 11:22:01 AM

what do you think of this suggestion?

Thank you for your input, cygan. I added the emails to OP, at the section you suggested. I thought for a while where they would fit best and the section you recommended was very suitable. But I added the emails a bit lower within that section, as I wanted to preserve the header with the image of Times and the quote from Satoshi.

Please take a look

I hope the place where I added the emails is good and they are linked nicely with the part about Satoshi's discussion with Martti Malmi.

cygan

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Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on March 13, 2024, 06:59:36 AM

✂️
Where in OP should I put them?
✂️

what do you think of this suggestion?

Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on June 14, 2020, 04:34:23 PM

✂️
Satoshi, the last (?) Cypherpunk

The first signs of Bitcoin's development

If these 5 e-mails are to be believed (and there is no way to do this easily) there has been contact between Satoshi Nakamoto and Adam Back since august 2008, when Satoshi asked Adam for his opinion on the paper.
With these 5 important 'documents' we can once again map a certain period of time and realize that SN has been in contact with some cyberphunks here

[images of this 5 E-Mails]

The Times, January 3^rd, 2009, London issue, morning edition || Image source: TheTimes03Jan2009.com

✂️

GazetaBitcoin

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Quote from: cygan on March 10, 2024, 03:00:31 PM

Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 10, 2024, 02:43:10 PM

Since there is no link contained in your post, here's a 2015 article on the topic. My way of attempting to communicate something like: "link or it didn't happen"

i have deliberately linked my post without a link, because the whole manifesto (with the corresponding link) from Eric Hughes has already been deposited by GazetaBitcoin in his op Wink

Thank you JJG for this input... much appreciated... Thank you cygan as well, since you noticed the OP has a reference to that article...

And, speaking of OP, I would kindly ask cygan this: where do you think it would be best place to add the emails share by you in the earlier post? Where in OP should I put them? Since you cam with this (very good) proposal I would be flattered if you'd share also where I should add these emails. So feel free to share how the respective new paragraph of OP should look like, and I will add it

I am more than certain you will come with a good idea and I'll be flattered to add your paragraph to OP.

cygan

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on March 10, 2024, 02:43:10 PM

...
Since there is no link contained in your post, here's a 2015 article on the topic. My way of attempting to communicate something like: "link or it didn't happen"

i have deliberately linked my post without a link, because the whole manifesto (with the corresponding link) from Eric Hughes has already been deposited by GazetaBitcoin in his op Wink

JayJuanGee

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Quote from: cygan on March 10, 2024, 09:05:42 AM

small side note:
31 years ago on march 9, 1993, Eric Hughes published a cypherpunk's manifesto called 'Cypherpunks write code.'
let's celebrate it and continue to uphold this philosophy

Since there is no link contained in your post, here's a 2015 article on the topic. My way of attempting to communicate something like: "link or it didn't happen"

cygan

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small side note:
31 years ago on march 9, 1993, Eric Hughes published a cypherpunk's manifesto called 'Cypherpunks write code.'
let's celebrate it and continue to uphold this philosophy

GazetaBitcoin

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Quote from: cygan on February 25, 2024, 02:24:42 PM

i think the reason for this is that Adam Back has long been suspected of having been involved in the creation of BTCitcoin.
these published e-mails will probably dispel this suspicion...

I understood that Adam Back was connected with Satoshi and some people believed he was the real Satoshi... What I did not understand was why such papers were taken to a Court of Law. A Court of Law should involve a trial, in my opinion, which implied, eventually a trial where Adam Back was involved.

I read the article but I did not see any reference there about such trial... only that the emails were taken to a Court. So I was wondering what is the reason for this... Did anyone sue Adam Back? Did authorities require him to present the emails for some reason? There is nothing stated for what led to the emails being presented to the Court...

cygan

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Quote from: GazetaBitcoin on February 25, 2024, 12:40:04 PM

✂️
Are you so kind though, to share what was the context for presenting these emails into the Court of Law?

i think the reason for this is that Adam Back has long been suspected of having been involved in the creation of BTCitcoin.
these published e-mails will probably dispel this suspicion...

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/bitcoin-adam-backs-complete-emails-satoshi-nakamoto

GazetaBitcoin

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Quote from: cygan on February 22, 2024, 02:16:39 PM

@GazetaBitcoin perhaps you should include these important 'documents'/'evidence' in your op and supplement it with them Wink

Thank you cygan! I will try to find a proper place for adding these to the OP.
Are you so kind though, to share what was the context for presenting these emails into the Court of Law?

cygan

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Adam Back's full email history with Satoshi Nakamato was entered into the court records today - this includes a total of 5 emails that i would like to share with you here
the first email was sent from SN to AB on August 20, 2008

@GazetaBitcoin perhaps you should include these important 'documents'/'evidence' in your op and supplement it with them Wink

cygan

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the following image is currently causing fresh speculation in the BTCitcoin and crypto community about the true identity of the mysterious BTCitcoin inventor. the image shows an interesting, albeit questionable, translation of the name 'Satoshi Nakamoto' into japanese katakana and hiragana characters, which, when interpreted as latin letters, should result in the name 'Hal Fin(n)ey'
the speculation surrounding the characters is the latest chapter in the long history of detective work surrounding the identity of Satoshi Nakamoto. it shows that the search for the inventor of BTCitcoin is often driven by the hope of finding a clue in every little detail - i hope we never find out who SN was...

GazetaBitcoin

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Thank you for sharing this, cygan! And I apologize for the delayed reply but I completely forgot about it.

Indeed, it's hard to believe that Hal was Satoshi. I read many articles about Hal and also multiple statements he made and he seemed very honest... Besides, after I read his post from the forum I became convinced there is no chance for him to be Satoshi. The post in question is this one and it's a must read, from my perspective: Bitcoin and me (Hal Finney).

I also recommend to everybody to merit that post, as it is, in a way, Hal's legacy...

cygan

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yesterday the well known Jameson Loop published a very interesting blog article about the legendary cypherpunk Hal Finney. with this article he presents his research results, and supports his claim that HF was/is not Satoshi Nakamoto.

Quote

A compilation of evidence that Hal Finney and Satoshi Nakamoto were different people.

https://blog.lopp.net/hal-finney-was-not-satoshi-nakamoto/

GazetaBitcoin

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First of all, I apologize for not being present inside my own thread for a while. I was out of country and I had only my phone with me, so it was impossible for me to write long posts using the phone. Anyway, I am back now

Quote from: JayJuanGee on October 02, 2023, 12:34:28 PM

I am pretty sure that I had seen something like that previously.. I cannot remember exactly where.... or maybe I just heard such an e-mail had been sent without actually seeing the contents.. like what is being shown in your cited image.

I remember this. I saw this years ago, on gwern's website.

In fact, it seems that DDmr found already the source:

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on October 02, 2023, 01:01:18 PM

The "discovery" of the emails may date back to 2014, as depicted here:
https://gwern.net/doc/bitcoin/2008-nakamoto

I remember I studied well gwern's website, being very well impressed about the materials presented there. With that oocasion I also found out that gwern was also active on our forum and it's sad that they ceased being active here...

Quote from: DdmrDdmr on October 02, 2023, 01:01:18 PM

If the source is the same as I’ve placed below, I’m left wondering whether the author used AI to aid his writing, or he simply used old information and planted it without paying attention to the content and the reference to "recent" it enclosed.

Most likely, the author acted like an amateur and did not care to verify the source of the information. There are so many acting like this in our days...

DdmrDdmr

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There are lies, damned lies and statistics. MTwain

Quote from: cygan on October 02, 2023, 08:33:20 AM

a recently surfaced email now reveals more about Bitcoin's previously little-known origin story. <…>

Yesterday I saw an article (*) that typified the disclosure as recent, and it got me all kicked-up to see what it was all about. Reading the content of the email, much like JJ, I thought it rang a bell.

The truth seems to be that the email was disclosed years ago (although I can’t pinpoint exactly how many). Bitcoin.com has had the email content on its site since at least mid 2021 since at least mid 2021 and I believe I saw 2020 articles referencing it too.

If the source is the same as I’ve placed below, I’m left wondering whether the author used AI to aid his writing, or he simply used old information and planted it without paying attention to the content and the reference to "recent" it enclosed.

(*) https://finbold.com/this-is-the-first-known-satoshi-nakamotos-email-whats-inside/

Edit: 2016 thread here referencing the email:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13718422

The "discovery" of the emails may date back to 2014, as depicted here:
https://gwern.net/doc/bitcoin/2008-nakamoto

JayJuanGee

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Quote from: cygan on October 02, 2023, 08:33:20 AM

a recently surfaced email now reveals more about Bitcoin's previously little-known origin story. it is the oldest known piece of writing from Bitcoin founder Satoshi Nakamoto. a message from august 22, 2008 to Wei Dai.
for his part, Dai had been working (as mentioned by GazetaBitcoin in this thread) on a digital cash system called 'b-money' since 1998. apparently, SN was inspired by this, which is also confirmed by the e-mail. in it, the Bitcoin founder asks for the publication date of the b-money page so that he can quote it in his soon-to-be-published work.

I am pretty sure that I had seen something like that previously.. I cannot remember exactly where.... or maybe I just heard such an e-mail had been sent without actually seeing the contents.. like what is being shown in your cited image.

cygan

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a recently surfaced email now reveals more about Bitcoin's previously little-known origin story. it is the oldest known piece of writing from Bitcoin founder Satoshi Nakamoto. a message from august 22, 2008 to Wei Dai.
for his part, Dai had been working (as mentioned by GazetaBitcoin in this thread) on a digital cash system called 'b-money' since 1998. apparently, SN was inspired by this, which is also confirmed by the e-mail. in it, the Bitcoin founder asks for the publication date of the b-money page so that he can quote it in his soon-to-be-published work.

GazetaBitcoin

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Thank you for sharing this, cygan! It is a very important article.

As a matter of fact, I also had it bookmarked for months now (maybe even more than 1 year), as I intended to write a topic about Cypherpunks and I thought that some information from this article may be useful for my purposes. (I did not write that topic yet and I don't know when I'll do it, but it is still on my to-do list.)

However, I had this article saved from CoinDesk: https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2016/04/09/bitcoin-and-the-rise-of-the-cypherpunks. Apparently, Jameson Lopp is also a columnist at CoinDesk. At first I thought the CoinDesk article was pure plagiarism, as it looks 100% identical with the one you shared, but I noticed afterwards that it's the same author.

In any case, this is a very good reading for anyone interested to learn about Cypherpunks.

cygan

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came across this great essay written by Jameson Lopp today. as the title says, this is about the rise of Bitcoin and the cypherpunks, how it all started and what led to the fact that we now can't get Bitcoin out of our heads and out of the whole world anymore

Quote

While many of the innovations in the space are new, they’re built on decades of work that led to this point. By tracing this history, we can understand the motivations behind the movement that spawned bitcoin and share its vision for the future.

https://blog.lopp.net/bitcoin-and-the-rise-of-the-cypherpunks/

and if you are a bit too lazy to read the whole thing, you can also listen to it (narrated by Guy Swann): https://www.lopp.net/media-archive/presentations/Bitcoin_Audible-Bitcoin_and_the_Rise_of-_the_Cypherpunks.mp3

Topic: Bitcoin: The dream of Cypherpunks, libertarians and crypto-anarchists (Read 3366 times)