Bitcoin: The Social Phenomenon - page 4.

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Quote from: JayJuanGee on January 17, 2020, 01:16:32 PM

...

OK, you got a point, but still:

If I take the tweet posted on the Seven Network Effects and more precisely with merchants and consumers. How are we supposed to increase the mass adoption concerning them if speculation is taking over merchants and consumers? Bitcoin is known as an investment and not an alternative currency.

A merchant will tell you he wants to be paid with money, not with stock option and he won't bother to look closely at it. No matter if you explain he can save on the fees charged by Visa card. Try yourself to talk with a merchant, he'll laugh, and he'll tell you he's not gonna bother where there's no demand. 1 consumer every 6 months interested to pay with bitcoins, yahoo!

Speculation is also the reason why administrations and governments start to bother us with regulations. It started to come at the same time around 2016.
What's the goal to create a digital currency decentralized if, in the end, we have the same problems, better to go back to fiat.

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Quote from: LeGaulois on January 17, 2020, 01:04:37 PM

Quote from: maxreish on January 17, 2020, 03:04:17 AM

Quote

The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate. But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

Why you guys are always mixing "Bitcoin" and "investment". From a currency decentralized it's now an online investment with people hoping to become rich... Undecided

using centralized companies on the top of that. If a day the price goes down to $1 they will disappear. People who truly need to use Bitcoin as a payment mean will stay.
Decentralization or not, people don't care anymore, cryptography or not people don't give a shit, privacy or not doesn't matter.
From the xxx,xxx transactions daily, most of them are related to trading activity, how many are for the real uses cases.

I don't want to be an investor, I want to be someone who uses Bitcoin to buy this or that because I don't have other alternatives. If I want to play the investor game I go to buy an apartment and rent it to someone. If I want to gamble I go to buy a scratch ticket at 1€, it costs me less than a Bitcoin and I have probably more lucks to become "rich" if I buy many.

I truly think that the 'investor' mentality refrain Bitcoin to evolves indirectly

Do you really believe that any one person can assert what bitcoin is good for and what it is not good for?

In the end, each person who gets involved in bitcoin decides for himself/herself (and even institutions and governments) regarding whether to get involved in bitcoin, which ways they believe bitcoin can serve them and how much to get involved. Speculation and/or investment seems overlap at least a few of the seven network effects (referring to trace mayer's outline here), and even if someone considers personal utility of bitcoin versus the utility that others might get from bitcoin, that is going to affect the persons perception of both present value and future value.

For example, someone in the more developed world might have a lot of access to a variety of means to transact, and they really have hardly any actual use for bitcoin, but that should not necessarily stop that same person to decide to buy into bitcoin as an investment based on perceptions regarding other use cases that others have and therefore speculate and invest into bitcoin regarding those perceptions of present or future utility.

You cannot really get away from either speculation and/or investment with any asset and it seems to be one of the more base level of the network effects.

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Quote from: maxreish on January 17, 2020, 03:04:17 AM

Quote

The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate. But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

Why you guys are always mixing "Bitcoin" and "investment". From a currency decentralized it's now an online investment with people hoping to become rich... Undecided

using centralized companies on the top of that. If a day the price goes down to $1 they will disappear. People who truly need to use Bitcoin as a payment mean will stay.
Decentralization or not, people don't care anymore, cryptography or not people don't give a shit, privacy or not doesn't matter.
From the xxx,xxx transactions daily, most of them are related to trading activity, how many are for the real uses cases.

I don't want to be an investor, I want to be someone who uses Bitcoin to buy this or that because I don't have other alternatives. If I want to play the investor game I go to buy an apartment and rent it to someone. If I want to gamble I go to buy a scratch ticket at 1€, it costs me less than a Bitcoin and I have probably more lucks to become "rich" if I buy many.

I truly think that the 'investor' mentality refrain Bitcoin to evolves indirectly

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Quote from: maxreish on January 17, 2020, 03:04:17 AM

Quote

The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate. But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

As we adopt many new technologies and innovations in our daily living same is the case with the Bitcoin. It is also one the best invention made by the human minds. Instead of focusing on the risky part if you put your focus on its value and the benefits it offer, you will surely realize its value. It is the best investment method that traders should adopt for good earning.

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Quote from: hermawan9416 on January 17, 2020, 12:02:21 PM

Do you think that something as phenomenal as bitcoin in the financial sphere is waiting for us in the future?

Bitcoin is in the financial sphere... and bitcoin is the thing that you have been waiting for. If you are trying to refer to some other nonsense such as defi phoney baloney then you should be considering that those systems are better built upon bitcoin, to the extent that they are going to be secure.

In other words, Bitcoin is the change that you have been waiting for.. so it is just a matter of building upon bitcoin. Don't get me wrong, I am NOT completely denigrating the various innovations on a variety of shitcoins, including the various projects on ethereum, but we should be attempting to keep our eyes on the prize (which is bitcoin) and understand a lot of those projects to be serving as mere testing grounds to the extent that they might either be added to bitcoin or perhaps become some second or third layer appendage to bitcoin... They are not the innovation in themselves, which is bitcoin and bitcoin's security and resolution of the double spend problem through proof of work and other already existing bitcoin protocol dynamics.

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Do you think that something as phenomenal as bitcoin in the financial sphere is waiting for us in the future?

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Quote from: Twentyonepaylots on January 17, 2020, 10:50:35 AM

Quote from: maxreish on January 17, 2020, 03:04:17 AM

Quote

The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate. But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

Everyone is pretty much into bitcoin investment honestly. Sure there might be people who are against bitcoin's ways and more probably are not really impressed or interested on bitcoin's abilities but everyone has this desire in them. The only thing that drawing them back is their mindset. Glad that a lot of people are slowly coming out of their shells and are making their way little by little in the cryptocurrency world.

Trading, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are in demand for those people who are interested with these things most especially when they know the benefits that they can get and they can earn. Most of the people refuse to believe in this kind of job because their first impression to it is its a scam because their people against to the crypto world most especially in bitcoin thats why they kept on discouraging other people from joining here in crypto world.

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Quote from: maxreish on January 17, 2020, 03:04:17 AM

Quote

The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate. But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

Everyone is pretty much into bitcoin investment honestly. Sure there might be people who are against bitcoin's ways and more probably are not really impressed or interested on bitcoin's abilities but everyone has this desire in them. The only thing that drawing them back is their mindset. Glad that a lot of people are slowly coming out of their shells and are making their way little by little in the cryptocurrency world.

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Quote

The Bitcoin technology is easy to duplicate. But the Bitcoin social movement cannot be duplicated.

All of this makes me realized one thing:
I am so lucky I have met bitcoin.

There are people who doesn't have any confidence to try something new, something social friendly technology. But the fact that we are spending our money and time to a fully worthy technology like Bitcoin is definitely- a gift. They just complicate things, but the bottom line here is. Bitcoin has a significant value which can be helpful to some investors like us.

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Quote from: mk4 on January 08, 2020, 12:32:19 PM

Quote from: nullius on January 08, 2020, 12:19:48 PM

You may dislike me, you may disagree with me, you may condemn me—you may even decide that you hate me. But we both agree that Bitcoin has value; and Bitcoin itself is absolutely unbiased between us. *snip*

There are actually people who think that bitcoin "has no value"; and one of the most famous people who thinks that, well, we all know the dude:

Tweet URL: https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1124343659770593280

The good thing though, is that it doesn't matter that he thinks! The market decided(via supply and demand) that the current price is $8100(as we speak), so it doesn't matter if he thinks bitcoin has no value! It's one of the beauties of open markets.

The same thing can actually be said of gold, that is if people will decide that it has no value then the demand for it will plummet and its corresponding value can be reduced a lot. This same principle is operating with Bitcoin and that is the fact. It is the people who are deciding what an asset will have value and how much is the value that people will be accepting. Of course, there are many factors and principles at play here.

What OP presented here is actually (or should be) an eye-opener to all of us even including people who are into Bitcoin but are still doubting on its value and its future. Bitcoin is empowering all of us but things are on our hands...we have the power to make it worthless or we can make it truly valuable as it should be.

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Quote from: buwaytress on January 12, 2020, 06:28:56 AM

As much as I find myself thrilled by Bitcoin, I could not, for example, 2 years ago explain why it was worth $20,000 when it was months ago not, when I valued it as much.

Nor can I explain how people are willing to buy supposedly rare items online that can possibly still be manufactured without anyone being able to tell the difference (I'm thinking diamonds here).

Which is why we ideally need to steer the conversation with the general public more towards the tangible benefits they can gain from actually using Bitcoin, rather than the fiat money they may or may not make speculating with it.

The only "reason" prices move like they do is that markets are fickle and traders are seemingly quite susceptible to hype and FOMO. It doesn't really make a lot of sense and it's certainly not very easy to explain to the uninitiated masses in simple terms.

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Quote from: Artemis3 on January 09, 2020, 09:56:40 AM

the characteristics of bitcoin is what gives it value, not what it cost was to mine it. Of course, there is less incentive to mine it if the market value goes under production value. But the sole fact that there is demand at all, means it is useful to enough people to give it that value.

exactly. the only reason why people started looking at irrelevant things to speculate the value is that they couldn't predict the bitcoin price so they needed things like hashrate that could be measured.
but what they forget is that miners are workers that are getting paid. if the economy is good their check is fatter so more workers are sign up for employment and if the economy is bad their check shrinks so some of them quit their job.
in the end the economy is there. bitcoin continues providing its utilities whether the employees are getting paid a lot or a little.

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Quote from: buwaytress on January 12, 2020, 06:28:56 AM

Quote from: Artemis3 on January 09, 2020, 09:56:40 AM

The value of things is NOT the value of production. It is your perceived value, how useful it is to you in your context and moment. Your smartphone (depleted battery) vs water in a desert, or refrigerators in the north pole.

the characteristics of bitcoin is what gives it value, not what it cost was to mine it. Of course, there is less incentive to mine it if the market value goes under production value. But the sole fact that there is demand at all, means it is useful to enough people to give it that value.

I don't agree with medium. I'd rather not go offsite to read and comment on articles.

This is one of the main understandings of irrational theory that people simply refuse to understand. That value, while generally following a thread of logic, also can be completely based on what might appear to be nothing to the rational observer.

As much as I find myself thrilled by Bitcoin, I could not, for example, 2 years ago explain why it was worth $20,000 when it was months ago not, when I valued it as much.

Nor can I explain how people are willing to buy supposedly rare items online that can possibly still be manufactured without anyone being able to tell the difference (I'm thinking diamonds here).

But no two networks are the same. I'm talking about finality.

A Bitcoin confirmation is worth more/more secure than a confirmation on another network/blockchain. Plus Bitcoin has the most competent developers in the world of cryptocurrency development in my opinion.

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Quote from: Artemis3 on January 09, 2020, 09:56:40 AM

The value of things is NOT the value of production. It is your perceived value, how useful it is to you in your context and moment. Your smartphone (depleted battery) vs water in a desert, or refrigerators in the north pole.

the characteristics of bitcoin is what gives it value, not what it cost was to mine it. Of course, there is less incentive to mine it if the market value goes under production value. But the sole fact that there is demand at all, means it is useful to enough people to give it that value.

I don't agree with medium. I'd rather not go offsite to read and comment on articles.

This is one of the main understandings of irrational theory that people simply refuse to understand. That value, while generally following a thread of logic, also can be completely based on what might appear to be nothing to the rational observer.

As much as I find myself thrilled by Bitcoin, I could not, for example, 2 years ago explain why it was worth $20,000 when it was months ago not, when I valued it as much.

Nor can I explain how people are willing to buy supposedly rare items online that can possibly still be manufactured without anyone being able to tell the difference (I'm thinking diamonds here).

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Quote from: BitcoinFX on January 09, 2020, 07:37:19 AM

Quote from: chaoscoinz on January 09, 2020, 07:25:41 AM

I think that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can become a whole lot more social if companies that specialize in social media like Facebook or twitter get involved. Facebook is poised to launch its Libra platform and Libra stablecoin that could potentially revolutionize the way that we interact with cryptocurrency. As of now cryptocurrency is limited to those who are technically literate but platforms like Libra will simplify the process making adoption more widespread and accessible.

Libra, by design, is not a decentralized cryptocurrency. It is a centrally controlled, FIAT based, distributed ledger technology.

There's nothing exciting about Libra. It's a digital version of the Federal Reserve, but controlled by the tech-corporations who want to truly rule the world instead of the big banks.

I believe there was a saying about controlling a nation's currency, to control the nation.

Back to topic, chaoscoinz didn't get what social consensus means. The success of this is the best example of social consensus, https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/moving-towards-user-activated-soft-fork-activation-1805060

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Quote from: moviebuff777 on January 09, 2020, 08:03:48 AM

The thing for me that makes Bitcoin so powerful is that it is universally known as the face of the cryptocurrency economy. It crosses all country boundaries and is independent of corporations and governments.

bitcoin does not depend on anyone and free bitcoin can not be controlled, and that makes bitcoin very strong and very difficult to be dropped by people or institutions. maybe price movements can go up and down but people's trust in bitcoin remains good.

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Quote from: mk4 on January 08, 2020, 12:32:19 PM

Quote from: nullius on January 08, 2020, 12:19:48 PM

You may dislike me, you may disagree with me, you may condemn me—you may even decide that you hate me. But we both agree that Bitcoin has value; and Bitcoin itself is absolutely unbiased between us. *snip*

There are actually people who think that bitcoin "has no value"; and one of the most famous people who thinks that, well, we all know the dude

The good thing though, is that it doesn't matter that he thinks! The market decided(via supply and demand) that the current price is $8100(as we speak), so it doesn't matter if he thinks bitcoin has no value! It's one of the beauties of open markets.

With that said, you should create a Medium account lol.

The value of things is NOT the value of production. It is your perceived value, how useful it is to you in your context and moment. Your smartphone (depleted battery) vs water in a desert, or refrigerators in the north pole.

the characteristics of bitcoin is what gives it value, not what it cost was to mine it. Of course, there is less incentive to mine it if the market value goes under production value. But the sole fact that there is demand at all, means it is useful to enough people to give it that value.

I don't agree with medium. I'd rather not go offsite to read and comment on articles.

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The thing for me that makes Bitcoin so powerful is that it is universally known as the face of the cryptocurrency economy. It crosses all country boundaries and is independent of corporations and governments.

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This is why we have to help each other and keep on supporting bitcoin, there are so many haters but I believe one day bitcoin will hit them literally and prove to them that they are wrong and we can use bitcoin on out major financial transactions. Banking industry feel the threat, they know it and this is why most of them hate this technology. Stay positive, bitcoin will never give up so you also have to keep on fighting and don’t listen to the noise of haters.

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Quote from: chaoscoinz on January 09, 2020, 07:25:41 AM

I think that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies can become a whole lot more social if companies that specialize in social media like Facebook or twitter get involved. Facebook is poised to launch its Libra platform and Libra stablecoin that could potentially revolutionize the way that we interact with cryptocurrency. As of now cryptocurrency is limited to those who are technically literate but platforms like Libra will simplify the process making adoption more widespread and accessible.

Libra, by design, is not a decentralized cryptocurrency. It is a centrally controlled, FIAT based, distributed ledger technology.

Read my post above. Bitcoin is a Commodity money. Libra is a Representative money.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_money

Also ...

"New to Bitcoin? Please, don't be confused.

It's pretty simple. Everything not bearing the ticker BTC is not Bitcoin. So always demand the real thing (which can be bought & used in little pieces called sats!), and at all times, avoid scams & copycats.

Now you're good to go. 👊"

- https://twitter.com/MyLegacyKit/status/1201835155725455361

...

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