Bitcoin trading and gambling - page 7.

TelolettOm

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Quote from: judaspriest on July 14, 2023, 11:00:32 PM

Yes, the similarities are not too big because overall, trading and gambling are different,
in gambling we can only rely on luck but it is different with trading because we need to have knowledge and skills,
that's why trading is so complicated.

Indeed. Basically, trading and gambling are very different, especially on the technical aspects. When we trade, we need to learn charts, the fundamental factors, and must determine the strategy. While in gambling, sometimes we don't need to learn anything and we even don't need a specific strategy. If we gamble on the luck-based games, we just have to play and see the result. The only thing we need is the money to pay to the casino.

The similarity may be about the goal. Both trading and gambling have the same goal, it is earning money. But in a certain case, people sometime gambling for fun only, the prize isn't very important since it is difficult to get. Grin

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Quote from: Nrcewker on July 14, 2023, 11:51:39 AM

People always have different views on this topic to be honest. According to me when the risk involved and returns expected is high, that can be termed as gambling. Whereas if the risks and returns are calculated then it can be termed as trading. In gambling you come to know the outcomes in shorter period of time. But in case of trading the results takes good amount of time to come. If you want to have a more clearer thought on this, then you can claim gambling as game of luck and trading as game of skill. Hope I cleared some of your doubts OP.

I completely agree with everything you have said, but for the other part I indicated, I think there are just some similarities with gambling characteristics. The reason I said so is because, as there are long traders, there are also some games, particularly sports, that could run for a week or more, depending. So, while some long traders can carry on one trade for more than one day, some gamblers can also stake on different clubs that have their fixtures on different days of the week and the results can also take long. Although for me, the way I just defined gambling is based entirely on luck, while trading requires more skill, as a trader, if the person is only relying on luck and not their trading skills, then they are only gambling.

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Quote from: imamusma on July 15, 2023, 04:15:01 PM

Quote from: ancafe on July 15, 2023, 03:44:39 PM

Quote from: Kelward on July 11, 2023, 08:18:51 AM

From my observation, people don't have much regards for gamblers, they either see them as lazy people who don't like to work, or people who want to take shortcut to get rich. Although people are entitled to their opinions, but I don't like to categorize bitcoin in this group of " try your luck ". I know bitcoin is of a higher level, it's a decentralized digital currency that you can use to make transactions, at the same time you can cash in when the coin appreciates., or even trade it to make profit.

You have explained well the definition of gambling in the paragraph above and I think it is representative and conclusions can be drawn. Trading and investing in bitcoin does not rely on luck because when you trade you need the right knowledge and strategy to live it. The classification of gambling with trading in bitcoins does not have the same pattern and the practice is much different, but the difference does not only lie in profit because talking about profit in gambling also has this pattern.

I'm interested in the line I bolded, that would be something that might be debatable.
Trading and investing can also involve luck although traders and investors do analysis. The volatility of its price has led many to speculate about what will happen tomorrow and the truth is none of us know how much it will cost. So even though traders and investors don't expect their returns based on luck, in fact the factor of luck also plays a role in assets that fluctuate all the time.

Bitcoin and all existing altcoin are also referred to as speculative assets by some. Free market activity has encouraged speculators to analyze and predict how trading activity so they feel safe to invest in the hope of getting a return worth it with the risk.

Luck would be always present on whatever things that we do tend to engage on whether on those investment or with gambling but we know that there's a certain level of luck which we do need to become successful on such field and we know that in trading it does really need up that analysis which it wouldnt really be that in relying with luck all the time because profit chances is less if you do just take on that gambler like mind of approach when you do make trades. Bitcoin trading and gambling is different on the sense on how things been done and what are the things that been applied or on how someone would really be approaching on dealing up with a certain thing. Totally different to each other but when it comes to risks then its true that it does have that kind of feeling that you do sometimes having that gambler like kind of behavior specially on trading or on the time
that you dont understand about the market movement on which these emotions do usually pop out.

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Quote from: ancafe on July 15, 2023, 03:44:39 PM

Quote from: Kelward on July 11, 2023, 08:18:51 AM

From my observation, people don't have much regards for gamblers, they either see them as lazy people who don't like to work, or people who want to take shortcut to get rich. Although people are entitled to their opinions, but I don't like to categorize bitcoin in this group of " try your luck ". I know bitcoin is of a higher level, it's a decentralized digital currency that you can use to make transactions, at the same time you can cash in when the coin appreciates., or even trade it to make profit.

You have explained well the definition of gambling in the paragraph above and I think it is representative and conclusions can be drawn. Trading and investing in bitcoin does not rely on luck because when you trade you need the right knowledge and strategy to live it. The classification of gambling with trading in bitcoins does not have the same pattern and the practice is much different, but the difference does not only lie in profit because talking about profit in gambling also has this pattern.

I'm interested in the line I bolded, that would be something that might be debatable.
Trading and investing can also involve luck although traders and investors do analysis. The volatility of its price has led many to speculate about what will happen tomorrow and the truth is none of us know how much it will cost. So even though traders and investors don't expect their returns based on luck, in fact the factor of luck also plays a role in assets that fluctuate all the time.

Bitcoin and all existing altcoin are also referred to as speculative assets by some. Free market activity has encouraged speculators to analyze and predict how trading activity so they feel safe to invest in the hope of getting a return worth it with the risk.

sompitonov

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Quote from: usekevin on July 15, 2023, 02:56:27 PM

Quote from: adzino on July 15, 2023, 12:30:38 AM

It is not the same thing. It is gambling if you are trading and you don't know what you are doing. If you just expect to buy low and then start selling high within few minutes, without understanding the market, then yes, you are gambling. When you gamble, you just leave things to your luck. In most of the cases, gambling require next to zero skills and knowledge. On other hand, trading is something that you learn and get better the more experience you have. Yes, you can make losses from trading, but you can control those losses. In trading the more you understand, the less you will lose in the long run. But if you keep gambling, the more you will lose in the long run. So no, trading isn't gambling if you understand how to trade and know what you are doing.

Gambling is totally different one from the trading,people who try to check their luck using the money in gambling.But trading is purely based on the analysis based,if you had more analytical skills.You can do trade with the minimum capital of 50 dollars.Then keep all your profit in terms of USDT in separate wallet.When the profit is back to the original value of 50 dollars, you can reinvest the profit and cash out the money used as initial.But in gambling either you win or lose everything.

Do not forget that you can also earn money in gambling, such as poker. But you need a calculation, an analytical mindset, psychology and a little luck. Even if there is no luck, you will be in profit in the long run.

With $50, I think, it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of time trading because you can't earn much. It makes sense only if you have never traded and train on such an amount.

ancafe

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Quote from: Kelward on July 11, 2023, 08:18:51 AM

From my observation, people don't have much regards for gamblers, they either see them as lazy people who don't like to work, or people who want to take shortcut to get rich. Although people are entitled to their opinions, but I don't like to categorize bitcoin in this group of " try your luck ". I know bitcoin is of a higher level, it's a decentralized digital currency that you can use to make transactions, at the same time you can cash in when the coin appreciates., or even trade it to make profit.

You have explained well the definition of gambling in the paragraph above and I think it is representative and conclusions can be drawn. Trading and investing in bitcoin does not rely on luck because when you trade you need the right knowledge and strategy to live it. The classification of gambling with trading in bitcoins does not have the same pattern and the practice is much different, but the difference does not only lie in profit because talking about profit in gambling also has this pattern.

The relationship between trading and investment is also different because when we talk about trading, we try to be active in the stock exchange regarding the trades we make. Investments place assets or bitcoins in a state of inactivity in trading, so we try to stick to the desired duration of time to generate profit, that's what I understand between trading and investing.

Quote from: Kelward on July 11, 2023, 08:18:51 AM

So having made all this comparisons, do you think that bitcoin can be classified as gambling?

No and we are more inclined to say to strategy, gambling is still defined as gambling and comparisons regarding classification are irrelevant.

usekevin

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Quote from: adzino on July 15, 2023, 12:30:38 AM

It is not the same thing. It is gambling if you are trading and you don't know what you are doing. If you just expect to buy low and then start selling high within few minutes, without understanding the market, then yes, you are gambling. When you gamble, you just leave things to your luck. In most of the cases, gambling require next to zero skills and knowledge. On other hand, trading is something that you learn and get better the more experience you have. Yes, you can make losses from trading, but you can control those losses. In trading the more you understand, the less you will lose in the long run. But if you keep gambling, the more you will lose in the long run. So no, trading isn't gambling if you understand how to trade and know what you are doing.

Gambling is totally different one from the trading,people who try to check their luck using the money in gambling.But trading is purely based on the analysis based,if you had more analytical skills.You can do trade with the minimum capital of 50 dollars.Then keep all your profit in terms of USDT in separate wallet.When the profit is back to the original value of 50 dollars, you can reinvest the profit and cash out the money used as initial.But in gambling either you win or lose everything.

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Quote from: ShowOff on July 14, 2023, 11:53:53 AM

Trading is totally different from gambling even though it involves luck. You trade for one reason and believe in the potential profit you will make after doing some research or analysis, but gambling is something different. Price volatility due to supply and demand allows traders to make profits, while losses occur for the same reason. But there are some similarities between gambling and trading, but these two risky activities are completely different.

There are several types of traders who have something in common like gamblers, they are traders who only expect price fluctuations without doing research and analysis before buying. While traders who do research and analysis also rely on volatility, they trade because the assets they trade have the potential to be profitable for one reason or another. Use cases, adoption and such are all driving factors, so it's not a gamble.

Unfortunately people do not see that, I wish they do but they do not and for some reason it is getting even worse. I do not care that they think trading is like gambling, I care that they trade like it is a gamble, which is a big big trouble. I mean if you are going to just risk all your money in an all-in leverage for example, you will end up with a big loss and I feel like people do that because they think it's like a gamble and they think they flipped a coin and hoped to be right and were wrong.

It's not like that at all, we are talking about a big deal that ended up being a bit different and that causes the situation to be a big unlikely result. I hope that it will end up with a true return and could happen to be a bit different eventually.

Hypnosis00

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Well, I guess OP had already an idea of what is Gambling and how it differs from Trading, and I assumed that he finds already the answer.
That is why it is very important to know what we are doing ( unless we don't) because whatever happens after, we can't complain that we are unlucky. Even in gambling, not all the time we rely on luck especially when it talks about sports betting, we indeed have the knowledge as well. And much more on trading which is totally necessary as it was not our luck but it was because we did something right.

Ricardo11

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Gambling and trading are two completely different things. Gambling is high risk. It totally depends on luck. If you win in the gambling game, your money will be doubled and if you lose, your entire money will be lost. Which is high risk. If you have idea about trading, then you must opt for trading. Because trading is not as high risk as gambling. And trading profits are also high. If you trade for long term you will get good returns. Now whether you choose trading or gambling is entirely up to you.

adzino

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It is not the same thing. It is gambling if you are trading and you don't know what you are doing. If you just expect to buy low and then start selling high within few minutes, without understanding the market, then yes, you are gambling. When you gamble, you just leave things to your luck. In most of the cases, gambling require next to zero skills and knowledge. On other hand, trading is something that you learn and get better the more experience you have. Yes, you can make losses from trading, but you can control those losses. In trading the more you understand, the less you will lose in the long run. But if you keep gambling, the more you will lose in the long run. So no, trading isn't gambling if you understand how to trade and know what you are doing.

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on July 14, 2023, 05:11:30 PM

Quote from: ShowOff on July 14, 2023, 11:53:53 AM

Trading is totally different from gambling even though it involves luck. You trade for one reason and believe in the potential profit you will make after doing some research or analysis, but gambling is something different. Price volatility due to supply and demand allows traders to make profits, while losses occur for the same reason. But there are some similarities between gambling and trading, but these two risky activities are completely different.

There are several types of traders who have something in common like gamblers, they are traders who only expect price fluctuations without doing research and analysis before buying. While traders who do research and analysis also rely on volatility, they trade because the assets they trade have the potential to be profitable for one reason or another. Use cases, adoption and such are all driving factors, so it's not a gamble.

^ It is quite a reasonable answer for me.
For me, although there may be some similarities between trading and gambling, such as the presence of luck and the potential for gains or losses, they differ significantly in their underlying principles, motivations, and strategies. Trading is a disciplined practice that relies on research, analysis, and market dynamics to generate profits, while gambling is based on chance and offers limited control over the outcome. One thing that both have similarities, is both involve an element of luck.

Yes, the similarities are not too big because overall, trading and gambling are different,
in gambling we can only rely on luck but it is different with trading because we need to have knowledge and skills,
that's why trading is so complicated.

Lanatsa

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on July 14, 2023, 05:11:30 PM

Quote from: ShowOff on July 14, 2023, 11:53:53 AM

Trading is totally different from gambling even though it involves luck. You trade for one reason and believe in the potential profit you will make after doing some research or analysis, but gambling is something different. Price volatility due to supply and demand allows traders to make profits, while losses occur for the same reason. But there are some similarities between gambling and trading, but these two risky activities are completely different.

There are several types of traders who have something in common like gamblers, they are traders who only expect price fluctuations without doing research and analysis before buying. While traders who do research and analysis also rely on volatility, they trade because the assets they trade have the potential to be profitable for one reason or another. Use cases, adoption and such are all driving factors, so it's not a gamble.

^ It is quite a reasonable answer for me.
For me, although there may be some similarities between trading and gambling, such as the presence of luck and the potential for gains or losses, they differ significantly in their underlying principles, motivations, and strategies. Trading is a disciplined practice that relies on research, analysis, and market dynamics to generate profits, while gambling is based on chance and offers limited control over the outcome. One thing that both have similarities, is both involve an element of luck.

Risks is the main similarity between two things because we do both put up risks on putting our money to earn money but the differences would be;

1. Level of risk
2. How its been done
3. Impression

It is really that impossible for someone not to be able to determine between things on the time that you would be able to deal up with these things.
You cant really be so dumb nor blind about the differences in terms of risks. Gambling is for fun and entertainment and trading is something that you could really make it as a source of income
which it cant be possibly be done on gambling field. It is really that totally different on this kind of point. Dont gamble if you dont like to lose money on instant manner
but rather it would be worth on something to deal like trading which you could be able to learn and make yourself that expert or experienced one on which
it would really be giving out advantage.

DoublerHunter

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Quote from: ShowOff on July 14, 2023, 11:53:53 AM

Trading is totally different from gambling even though it involves luck. You trade for one reason and believe in the potential profit you will make after doing some research or analysis, but gambling is something different. Price volatility due to supply and demand allows traders to make profits, while losses occur for the same reason. But there are some similarities between gambling and trading, but these two risky activities are completely different.

There are several types of traders who have something in common like gamblers, they are traders who only expect price fluctuations without doing research and analysis before buying. While traders who do research and analysis also rely on volatility, they trade because the assets they trade have the potential to be profitable for one reason or another. Use cases, adoption and such are all driving factors, so it's not a gamble.

^ It is quite a reasonable answer for me.
For me, although there may be some similarities between trading and gambling, such as the presence of luck and the potential for gains or losses, they differ significantly in their underlying principles, motivations, and strategies. Trading is a disciplined practice that relies on research, analysis, and market dynamics to generate profits, while gambling is based on chance and offers limited control over the outcome. One thing that both have similarities, is both involve an element of luck.

darewaller

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on July 12, 2023, 01:18:13 AM

In my opinion trading can be both gambling and not gambling depending on how you are seeing it. Trying to do risks spot trading on altcoins, it becomes a full gamble. With non-spot trading types, you are again fully gambling. The only non-gambling trading is bitcoin on spot market.

But it is natural to be inclined towards risky trading and therefore bitcoin spot trading is the least attractive for newbies. This should be decided by the trader as to how much risk they can handle with knowledge of the rewards

Trading is an EV+ gambling in a broad spectrum definition. Just do it as long as you are comfortable in it.

Trading is trading while gambling is gambling. When I say gambling I mean the ones with different games on them like poker and roulette. If we talk about risks then both has a gambling element on them. It does not matter if you trade Bitcoin and you are an experienced trader already because I believe there is still a risk there even by just a tiny percent. Many newbies are attracted to trading.

These newbies better start with spot type and then use Bitcoin as their currency. If they already build an experience, that is the time for them to move to altcoins and other types of trading. Investing using Bitcoin is still the best for a newbie before proceeding into trading.

el kaka22

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It is true that spending time investigating what you should invest into would make it a bit different and it would definitely cause a lot of trouble. But at the end of the day we are not going to end up with a clear choice.

It is not like our investments are glaring obvious answers when we research, even after a lot of research, we are going to end up with a bad result and we shouldn't really be careful about pace, because we do not need pace, make sure that you invest carefully and you get your time and slowly figure out what you want to invest into. That way it will make more sense and I believe that it will definitely be a good thing. I hope that it is going to be easier for you guys than it was for me, learning how to invest was hard for me.

ShowOff

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Trading is totally different from gambling even though it involves luck. You trade for one reason and believe in the potential profit you will make after doing some research or analysis, but gambling is something different. Price volatility due to supply and demand allows traders to make profits, while losses occur for the same reason. But there are some similarities between gambling and trading, but these two risky activities are completely different.

There are several types of traders who have something in common like gamblers, they are traders who only expect price fluctuations without doing research and analysis before buying. While traders who do research and analysis also rely on volatility, they trade because the assets they trade have the potential to be profitable for one reason or another. Use cases, adoption and such are all driving factors, so it's not a gamble.

Nrcewker

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Quote from: Kelward on July 11, 2023, 08:18:51 AM

For some time now I've been pondering on this matter, because I see similarity between bitcoin trading and gambling, so I'm wondering whether they're the same thing.

People always have different views on this topic to be honest. According to me when the risk involved and returns expected is high, that can be termed as gambling. Whereas if the risks and returns are calculated then it can be termed as trading. In gambling you come to know the outcomes in shorter period of time. But in case of trading the results takes good amount of time to come. If you want to have a more clearer thought on this, then you can claim gambling as game of luck and trading as game of skill. Hope I cleared some of your doubts OP.

sompitonov

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Quote from: Kelward on July 14, 2023, 09:42:20 AM

Quote from: palle11 on July 12, 2023, 09:26:10 AM

Quote from: goaldigger on July 12, 2023, 08:28:27 AM

Bitcoin itself is not a gambling but if you do some actions that are more about gambling, then you can consider it.
This two has been compared for many times, and there's still no correct answer here because it will always depend on your own perception.
For me, Bitcoin is more as an investment asset and not just a crypto currency, again this is my own perception and I'm sure some will not agree on this.

There is standard to things whether opinion different or not and such standard is from majority of the general opinion just as your opinion is that bitcoin is more of investment asset. So trading is not gambling like gambling is also not trading. Many responses here have followed the same line as yours. Trade is a more calculated indices which are futuristic and realistic unlike gambling whose main principles stand on luck and prediction.

I like the way you differentiate the two, bitcoin trading is more of calculated indices, it's futuristic and realistic. While gambling main principles is primarily on luck and predictions. I think that if a bitcoin trader chooses to apply this principles of gambling that is based on luck and predictions, then it somewhat becomes a gambling method, which might not yield favourable results in terms of earnings. Better to stick to a realistic method of calculated indices, as you have rightly mentioned.

Trading is even similar to poker. The most important thing is that if you follow the discipline and diligently study and improve constantly, then you can become a professional. I went through these paths, it is very difficult, but many succeed. That's why I love trading and poker. You will never become a professional in roulette and slots, only you will always lose money there.

The funny thing is that you could just buy bitcoin earlier and do nothing else, and you would probably be in the black. It's more difficult than it looks. But the very thought of it excites me.

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Quote from: _act_ on July 11, 2023, 08:31:24 AM

Holding bitcoin is not the same thing as trading bitcoin. Gambling and trading are not the same thing too. Trading require you to learn trading skills but gambling require just some strategies. Trading can be risky like gambling, but they are not the same thing. If the price of bitcoin fall already, you can invest for months or years and you will most likely gain.

People tend to mix the two most of the time since they both involve risk factor, but it's much less of a risk when we're talking about hodling and trading since you can still get back your "thrown" money while in gambling, if you lose, it's entirely zero.

Even if trading can still be learned sometimes, there were times from my experience that I needed to be lucky just to squeeze tiny profits. I had day traded before so yeah that was my experience at the least.

Quote from: Kelward on July 14, 2023, 09:42:20 AM

I like the way you differentiate the two, bitcoin trading is more of calculated indices, it's futuristic and realistic. While gambling main principles is primarily on luck and predictions. I think that if a bitcoin trader chooses to apply this principles of gambling that is based on luck and predictions, then it somewhat becomes a gambling method, which might not yield favourable results in terms of earnings. Better to stick to a realistic method of calculated indices, as you have rightly mentioned.

In a volatile market, luck can still become a factor. It's not always 100% skills and hardwork, luck comes into play also............ well just like in life. Cheesy

Topic: Bitcoin trading and gambling - page 7. (Read 1416 times)