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DannyHamilton

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Quote from: ZephramC on February 09, 2014, 04:59:23 PM

Quote from: DannyHamilton on February 09, 2014, 12:58:04 PM

- snip -
(and rounded down to the nearest 0.10 microbitcoins)
- snip -

I have read both Satoshi whitepaper and wiki, but I missed that part with rounding. Isnt it instead 0.01 microBTC = 1 Satoshi? Isnt reward reduction done by bitshift with "no rounding"?

Yes, that was a typo. I intended to say 0.01 microbitcoins. I'll fix it in the post where I made the error. Thank you.

Also, yes, it is technically handled with a bitshift on an integer value, the resulting effect is to cut the value in half and round down to the nearest integer value. Explaining the concept of a bitshift to someone who wasn't even interested in understanding the basic concepts of mining and bitcoin creation seemed futile, so I went with describing the effect rather than the technical details of the method.

ZephramC

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Quote from: DannyHamilton on February 09, 2014, 12:58:04 PM

Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 12:42:54 PM

the number of bitcoins in existence will never exceed 21 million.

You are correct.

As a matter of fact, the number of bitcoins will actually never exceed 20999999.97690000 BTC.

This will happen somewhere around the year 2140 (about 126 years from now).

Of course during this time, the block subsidy will be reduced by half (and rounded down to the nearest 0.10 microbitcoins) every 4 years. So the 25 BTC subsidy that miners receive today will be reduced to 12.5 BTC in about 3 years. Then that will be reduced to 6.25 BTC 4 years later, and so on.

In the meantime, the value of the total transaction fees of all transactions included in the block will increase over time as bitcoin gains popularity. Eventually the subsidy will shrink to an amount that is less than the transaction fees. At that time, the reward the miners receive will mostly come from transaction fees instead of the subsidy.

When the subsidy eventually shrinks to 0 BTC, mining will be entirely supported by transaction fees.

I have read both Satoshi whitepaper and wiki, but I missed that part with rounding. Isnt it instead 0.01 microBTC = 1 Satoshi? Isnt reward reduction done by bitshift with "no rounding"?

Wusolini

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no need to carry heavy money bags anymore

Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 03:54:28 PM

if is automatically done yes its too much - must be instant.

if this is your main requirement you shoud quit with btc and focus on 'hand to hand' trade wich is very instant.
but You'd be limited to local trade or waste much more time traveling to meet the merchant

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on February 09, 2014, 04:19:46 PM

Mining can (and was) profitable at both $0.01 per BTC and $1,200 per BTC. If mining is unprofitable FOR SOME PEOPLE, they will stop and thus it will be more profitable for those who remain. If it becomes "too profitable" for those who are mining, more people will mine and the profitable will decline. The network will always reach an equilibrium.

Do I hear an echo?

Wink

Quote from: DannyHamilton on February 09, 2014, 02:13:32 PM

If some people stop mining, then the difficulty will decrease and all the remaining miners will receive more bitcoins for the same effort. No matter what the value is, as long as there is some value, there will continue to be some people who will want those bitcoins. People were mining back when bitcoin was valued at 1,000 BTC for $1. They will continue to do so in the future.

The system is designed so that the price for mining is ALWAYS right. That is why the difficulty adjusts automatically every 2016 blocks.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 02:05:52 PM

Probably after a few years will be no mining because the price for bitcoin is low . If the price will be right the mining process will continue until the end.
Nobody want to mine for bitcoin and loose money and time .

ining can (and was) profitable at both $0.01 per BTC and $1,200 per BTC. If mining is unprofitable FOR SOME PEOPLE, they will stop, and the hashrate will decline, and the difficulty will decline, and thus it will be more profitable for those who remain. If it becomes "too profitable" for those who are mining, more hashpower will be deployed chasing those profits, and the hashrate will go up, and the difficulty will go up, and thus it will be less profitable for all miners. The network will always reach an equilibrium.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 03:54:28 PM

if is automatically done yes its too much - must be instant.

Well then you should go use that other currency that allows instant free transactions directly between any two people in all circumstances all the time.

Bitcoin is not the right solution for your needs.

And I have now spent enough time attempting to hold a conversation with a troll. Lox500 will be added to my ignore list.

Lox500

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if is automatically done yes its too much - must be instant.

Wusolini

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no need to carry heavy money bags anymore

Quote from: Lox500 on January 29, 2014, 02:12:01 PM

I have made a bitcoin transaction and took 1 hour to be validated ! This is too much !.....

compare this to standard bank transfer.
and I'm not talking about weekends or bankholidays or even sending money to other side of globe ... it tooks days (if you dont pay some extra fees)

still you think its too much?

Lox500

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Im not saying that bitcoin price will be higher or lower . I do not want to predict the price of bitcoin . They say will be 10 000 $ or 100 000 $ per bitcoin. I believe that 1000 $ for 1 bitcoin is too much but ...

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 02:05:52 PM

Probably after a few years will be no mining because the price for bitcoin is low . If the price will be right the mining process will continue until the end.
Nobody want to mine for bitcoin and loose money and time .

So you are predicting that the value of bitcoins will decrease? You are certain of this? How are you certain? Are you able to see the future?

If some people stop mining, then the difficulty will decrease and all the remaining miners will receive more bitcoins for the same effort. No matter what the value is, as long as there is some value, there will continue to be some people who will want those bitcoins. People were mining back when bitcoin was valued at 1,000 BTC for $1. They will continue to do so in the future.

The system is designed so that the price for mining is ALWAYS right. That is why the difficulty adjusts automatically every 2016 blocks.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: dhanumitra on February 09, 2014, 01:22:46 PM

how will be btc transactions confirmed after 100 years?

The same way they are now. They will be confirmed by the creation (mining) of blocks in exchange for a bitcoin reward. It's just that in 100 years a much larger percentage of that reward will come from transaction fees instead of from a block subsidy.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 01:21:41 PM

Nothing is forever!

The first thing you've said that is actually correct.

That would be why I stated:

"So long as bitcoin continues to exist and serve a valuable purpose, mining will continue."

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: cp1 on February 09, 2014, 01:03:43 PM

Don't forget that it'll be over 100 years until we hit 21 million.

We will never hit 21 million.

We will never even hit 20999999.97690000

We will get close to it, but as you mention that will take approximately 126 more years.

Lox500

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Probably after a few years will be no mining because the price for bitcoin is low . If the price will be right the mining process will continue until the end.
Nobody want to mine for bitcoin and loose money and time .

Sonny

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Quote from: dhanumitra on February 09, 2014, 01:22:46 PM

how will be btc transactions confirmed after 100 years?

Please refer to DannyHamilton's post in page 2.

Quote from: DannyHamilton on February 09, 2014, 12:58:04 PM

Of course during this time, the block subsidy will be reduced by half (and rounded down to the nearest 0.10 microbitcoins) every 4 years. So the 25 BTC subsidy that miners receive today will be reduced to 12.5 BTC in about 3 years. Then that will be reduced to 6.25 BTC 4 years later, and so on.

In the meantime, the value of the total transaction fees of all transactions included in the block will increase over time as bitcoin gains popularity. Eventually the subsidy will shrink to an amount that is less than the transaction fees. At that time, the reward the miners receive will mostly come from transaction fees instead of the subsidy.

When the subsidy eventually shrinks to 0 BTC, mining will be entirely supported by transaction fees.

Sonny

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Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 01:21:41 PM

Nothing is forever!

Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 10:07:31 AM

In about one year there will be no mining ! How about that? Who is going to confirm the transactions? Probably me.

So, what make you feel there will be no mining in 1 year?
Care to share?

dhanumitra

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how will be btc transactions confirmed after 100 years?

Lox500

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Nothing is forever!

cp1

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Stop using branwallets

Don't forget that it'll be over 100 years until we hit 21 million.

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: Lox500 on February 09, 2014, 12:57:44 PM

after 21 million bitcoin the mining will stop.

New bitcoins will stop being created before the total created bitcoins reaches 20999999.97690000 BTC, however this will NOT stop the mining process.

Miners will continue to do the exact same work that they do today. The only difference will be that their income will come from the transaction fees instead of from the block subsidy.

Perhaps we will stop calling it "mining" and will start calling it "transaction processing" instead, but the actual work being performed will be exactly the same.

Topic: bitcoin transaction (Read 2750 times)