I think using renewable energy for the electricity in mining bitcoin is a brilliant idea. The monthly cost for the electricity will be reduced, but not for free though there still initial cost in setting up the plant and also maintenance cost. So, the electric cost will not totally gone. Thus, transaction fee would still be there for the miners.
using renewable energy as electricity source in mining bitcoin must pay expensive cost.maybe only huge miner pools that able to set this.for medium or even small miner that will use commoin electricity. 
Topic: bitcoin transactions costs in the future - page 6. (Read 1786 times)
Even with clean energy the amount of work put into creating that energy will be still a lot. Nuclear is another topic which we do not like to talk but honestly it is such a power that just one plant could give you enough energy to cover most of the underdeveloped world, I do not remember where I read it but if we had like 200 nuclear plants all over the world then we could have enough energy to cover all energy need ever.
We can move to clean afterwards but nuclear is technically "clean" energy as long as nothing bad happens. The only reason why it is not like is the risk of leakage and something like Chernobyl to happen. With just one nuclear plant we can literally cover ALL bitcoin mining operation electricity requirements and then some (a lot more) which is why if we want free bitcoin transactions we should totally focus on nuclear plants.
We can move to clean afterwards but nuclear is technically "clean" energy as long as nothing bad happens. The only reason why it is not like is the risk of leakage and something like Chernobyl to happen. With just one nuclear plant we can literally cover ALL bitcoin mining operation electricity requirements and then some (a lot more) which is why if we want free bitcoin transactions we should totally focus on nuclear plants.
I think using renewable energy for the electricity in mining bitcoin is a brilliant idea. The monthly cost for the electricity will be reduced, but not for free though there still initial cost in setting up the plant and also maintenance cost. So, the electric cost will not totally gone. Thus, transaction fee would still be there for the miners.
I think it will be definitely very low when the Bitcoin demand increases then there is lots of options available to transact the Bitcoin into different types so at that time it gives the free transaction method will be very useful for everyone to get connected with Bitcoin very easily.
In the future the cost of transactions with bitcoin will be similar to now, the reason is simple, it may be that in the future the price of bitcoin is high then their fees will be high and if the price is low, the fees will not be so high, not only in mining, because there may be many miners with very large solar cells but in the same way the Exchanges will charge their corresponding fees according to the bitcoin price for the moment.
In the future its expected that the value of bitcoin and other cryptos will be super high because they will be indemand therfor the price of transaction fees will also be super high and it does not matter if the miner uses a solar power or not because miners will still choose the best highest possible fee so that they can profit easily and their effor of mining a transaction wont be wasted . however at some point i think your also right because in the future the value of cryptos are still volatile same as today .
In the future the cost of transactions with bitcoin will be similar to now, the reason is simple, it may be that in the future the price of bitcoin is high then their fees will be high and if the price is low, the fees will not be so high, not only in mining, because there may be many miners with very large solar cells but in the same way the Exchanges will charge their corresponding fees according to the bitcoin price for the moment.
In the future its expected that the value of bitcoin and other cryptos will be super high because they will be indemand therfor the price of transaction fees will also be super high and it does not matter if the miner uses a solar power or not because miners will still choose the best highest possible fee so that they can profit easily and their effor of mining a transaction wont be wasted . however at some point i think your also right because in the future the value of cryptos are still volatile same as today .
I have the same feeling about all of this, and that's why I never bother exchanging my BTC to some fast alts in order to make a fast and cheap transaction. However, it would be interesting to see the real numbers. I bet you will lose more money in the process compared to just sending BTC and paying the highest reasonable transaction fee, like 40k+ sats currently, but it would be interesting to see the following calculations.
Say, someone buys $500 worth of ETH with his BTC. Sends ETH to wherever he wants. Exchanges ETH for BTC there. How much this person will really lose in the process? I assume, it can be more than $5, but I don't know how much exactly.
Depends on the exchange if they're using a popular exchange like Binance for converting it's usually more than spending a recommended miner fee for Bitcoin because of the fixed withdrawal fee. Apart from the additional miner fee from the deposit if $500 worth of BTC is BTC0.06 then Binance is charging like 0.1% on trading fees there's a BTC.0006 trading fee(plus the fix eth fee) total estimated cost is $15 after conversion. This is assuming the price of ETH is stable, the cost or loss in value could be greater as the rates from exchanges are different. Say, someone buys $500 worth of ETH with his BTC. Sends ETH to wherever he wants. Exchanges ETH for BTC there. How much this person will really lose in the process? I assume, it can be more than $5, but I don't know how much exactly.
In the future the cost of transactions with bitcoin will be similar to now, the reason is simple, it may be that in the future the price of bitcoin is high then their fees will be high and if the price is low, the fees will not be so high, not only in mining, because there may be many miners with very large solar cells but in the same way the Exchanges will charge their corresponding fees according to the bitcoin price for the moment.
In the future its expected that the value of bitcoin and other cryptos will be super high because they will be indemand therfor the price of transaction fees will also be super high and it does not matter if the miner uses a solar power or not because miners will still choose the best highest possible fee so that they can profit easily and their effor of mining a transaction wont be wasted . however at some point i think your also right because in the future the value of cryptos are still volatile same as today .
In the future the cost of transactions with bitcoin will be similar to now, the reason is simple, it may be that in the future the price of bitcoin is high then their fees will be high and if the price is low, the fees will not be so high, not only in mining, because there may be many miners with very large solar cells but in the same way the Exchanges will charge their corresponding fees according to the bitcoin price for the moment.
I really do not complain about BTC transaction costs. I am a trader and I have many ways to avoid BTC trading but money can still come back to my wallet very quickly. For example, if you are trading on an exchange, you are holding 1 BTC. You can divide it and sell it at altcoins with low transaction fees like Nano, XRP, LTC, ETH, CS, ... then we can convert to 1 wallet and everything will become very simple. 
You call that simple?
You first sell your BTC for altcoins, you pay fees, you also have to set up wallets, and...you end up with shitcoins!!!
Most of us are concerned about sending BTC and receiving BTC not converting into some shitcoin.
What am I going to do if I want to send somebody some bitcoin, send them to an exchange...convert them to an altcoin, send the guy the altcoin then he sends to the exchange and converts them to BTC ...and he withdraws?
Paying twice the fees for BTC, twice conversion and withdraw fees?
Calling that simple!!!!!
I have the same feeling about all of this, and that's why I never bother exchanging my BTC to some fast alts in order to make a fast and cheap transaction. However, it would be interesting to see the real numbers. I bet you will lose more money in the process compared to just sending BTC and paying the highest reasonable transaction fee, like 40k+ sats currently, but it would be interesting to see the following calculations.
Say, someone buys $500 worth of ETH with his BTC. Sends ETH to wherever he wants. Exchanges ETH for BTC there. How much this person will really lose in the process? I assume, it can be more than $5, but I don't know how much exactly.
I really do not complain about BTC transaction costs. I am a trader and I have many ways to avoid BTC trading but money can still come back to my wallet very quickly. For example, if you are trading on an exchange, you are holding 1 BTC. You can divide it and sell it at altcoins with low transaction fees like Nano, XRP, LTC, ETH, CS, ... then we can convert to 1 wallet and everything will become very simple.
You call that simple?
You first sell your BTC for altcoins, you pay fees, you also have to set up wallets, and...you end up with shitcoins!!!
Most of us are concerned about sending BTC and receiving BTC not converting into some shitcoin.
What am I going to do if I want to send somebody some bitcoin, send them to an exchange...convert them to an altcoin, send the guy the altcoin then he sends to the exchange and converts them to BTC ...and he withdraws?
Paying twice the fees for BTC, twice conversion and withdraw fees?
Calling that simple!!!!!
So I would like to add a possibility: if the necessary energy to move the mining activity was supplied *for free*, could btc transactions be executed for free as well?
it will always require capital to acquire solar panels and other renewable energy infrastructure. it doesn't come free. just like now, miners need to invest in hardware and infrastructure to indirectly invest in BTC.
as bitcoin mining transitions towards green energy sources, it'll be better for the earth, but the fundamental incentive design won't change. we still need to pay miners to include our tx in blocks.
Even using the renewable source of energy, you still need to cover the initial investments of the equipment used. So you still need to charge fee for every transaction, though you have the option to lower such charges. And in that regard, future bitcoin transaction fees might be lower as compared to current rates, even if you want to add more satoshis to accelerate your transaction.
Exactly, mining equipment is very expensive and not only that miners need to pay their employees as well which raises their costs, however miners are not the ones that determine the costs of transactions, that is done by us, since the space in each block is limited this means the supply is low and when the demand gets higher like when the price of bitcoin goes up then it is natural to see a spike in the fees since everyone is trying to outbid one another to get their transactions to be confirmed as fast as possible. 
Even using the renewable source of energy, you still need to cover the initial investments of the equipment used. So you still need to charge fee for every transaction, though you have the option to lower such charges. And in that regard, future bitcoin transaction fees might be lower as compared to current rates, even if you want to add more satoshis to accelerate your transaction.
Exactly, mining equipment is very expensive and not only that miners need to pay their employees as well which raises their costs, however miners are not the ones that determine the costs of transactions, that is done by us, since the space in each block is limited this means the supply is low and when the demand gets higher like when the price of bitcoin goes up then it is natural to see a spike in the fees since everyone is trying to outbid one another to get their transactions to be confirmed as fast as possible. ~ What I'm wondering is what would happen if bitcoin's price reached a level that was so insane that 1 satoshi was something like $5 or even higher. Would that not screw up the entire bitcoin system? There would be no way to send small amounts of bitcoin or very exact amounts, much less pay a fee to the miners. Am I missing something in that hypothetical case other than the fact that 1 satoshi will probably never be worth that much?
Let's assume 1 satoshi is $5. Since 1 Bitcoin is equal to 100 million satoshis, it makes 1 BTC worth $500 million. When finding a block miners receive not only transaction fees from all the txs included in the block, but also a block reward that is 12.5 BTC currently.
12.5 x 500 million = $6.25 billion
If the block reward was so high, miners would start including transactions with zero fee without any problem, because only to receive the block reward would be more than enough for them.
And even after 2020 halving, when the block reward will be reduced to 6.25 BTC, even then, and I would say, many years after that, the block reward would be the main source of miners' income in the case of very high price of Bitcoin, not the transaction fees.
To understand how fees might become a significant incentive for miners we need to understand what the costs of transactions look like in terms of the current mining rewards. With this measure each transaction costs around 0.045 BTC, or approximately $17 at the end of October 2014. The network is able to process more transactions per second than it is right now. It's currently running at about 30% of its capacity and has doubled in the last 12 months.
Back in the days there was a similar discussion going on about how the internet would result in an environmental disaster due to how much energy massive datacenters consume at cost of the local economy/environment.
Right now no one even cares about these datacenters anymore, where most of them run on renewable energy, which eventually will be adopted by most Bitcoin mining farms as well. History has shown that things CAN change for the better.
Right now no one even cares about these datacenters anymore, where most of them run on renewable energy, which eventually will be adopted by most Bitcoin mining farms as well. History has shown that things CAN change for the better.
It's because there is a slight difference.
A few decades ago you had HDD with 1 GB of data and CPUs running at 166 Mhz, imagine the size of youtube datacenter if they would have to replace all their HDD's with some with 1g capacity and how many servers they would require to process 4k videos if they would use that generation of chips.
But data centers were saved by efficiency.
Bitcoin doesn't work that way.
More efficiency mining means only that you get more $ per kWh spent and everyone will try to maximize their profits and in the end spent the same amount of energy.
Right now we have around 3 millions miners plugged in, at 8000$ per bitcoin.
At 80 000$ we will have probably 30 million.
Now imagine 30 million miners drawing each 2500W.
That's 100 millions Dell R740 fully equipped and with 2 GPU units.
Google for example for all its services including youtube has around 3.2 million, in 2015 there were only 75 million servers in the whole world!!!!
The only thing that will prevent this waste is going to be the reward halving.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, Bitcoin now has a very significant negative factor that governments of many countries are drawing their attention to. The point is that the cost of maintaining the activity and performance of the Bitcoin network is currently too high. Too much energy at this point in time is going to ensure the stable operation of the Bitcoin network.
It's just a matter of time before people find Bitcoin useful enough to no longer care about its energy consumption, just like how people don't care anymore about the energy consumption of the banking system and internet/tech giants.Back in the days there was a similar discussion going on about how the internet would result in an environmental disaster due to how much energy massive datacenters consume at cost of the local economy/environment.
Right now no one even cares about these datacenters anymore, where most of them run on renewable energy, which eventually will be adopted by most Bitcoin mining farms as well. History has shown that things CAN change for the better.
I agree this is a big and free resource and in my opinion this is a new breakthrough in the world of agriculture. so that working farmers don't fully use their muscles. regarding the return of investment, it is clear that it will return if the project and company continue to make significant progress.
Unfortunately, in my opinion, Bitcoin now has a very significant negative factor that governments of many countries are drawing their attention to. The point is that the cost of maintaining the activity and performance of the Bitcoin network is currently too high. Too much energy at this point in time is going to ensure the stable operation of the Bitcoin network.
It's just a matter of time before people find Bitcoin useful enough to no longer care about its energy consumption, just like how people don't care anymore about the energy consumption of the banking system and internet/tech giants.Back in the days there was a similar discussion going on about how the internet would result in an environmental disaster due to how much energy massive datacenters consume at cost of the local economy/environment.
Right now no one even cares about these datacenters anymore, where most of them run on renewable energy, which eventually will be adopted by most Bitcoin mining farms as well. History has shown that things CAN change for the better.
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