Bitcoin upgrades | Bitcointalksearch.org

TheQuin

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 06:15:28 PM

Quote from: TheQuin on February 25, 2018, 11:44:35 AM

Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:38:36 AM

The nodes on the lighting network don't look "completely decentralised" to me, if you look at the live view of the lighting network nodes you can see a lot of centralization on the nodes with mostly 9 nodes connecting the 873 nodes together.

So you don't know what decentralised means. A picture often helps.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Centralised-decentralised-distributed.png

Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:38:36 AM

And the "off-chain transactions" means the lightning network doesn't opperate on the blockchain right?

That's the point, Bitcoin is way ahead of the altcoins in making this possible.

Any reason it can't be distributed then?

Distributed networks quickly run into scaling limitations so using a decentralised network becomes a necessity to achieve mass adoption. If you know anything about data networks then this might help you understand https://medium.com/@melik_87377/lightning-network-enables-unicast-transactions-in-bitcoin-lightning-is-bitcoins-tcp-ip-stack-8ec1d42c14f5

patt0

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:05:09 AM

Why don't the developers just update Bitcoin like any other normal altcoin on the market?

For example give Bitcoin an update for larger block sizes, faster transactions speeds, privacy features, more transactions per second, lower fee's and maybe add in smart contracts.

All those things you've mentioned are already being developed. Expect for block increase, because bitcoin is going for of-chain solutions, that are far better than the on-chain solution that would make the coin to much centralized. Even the Director of Program Management from Microsoft stated that on-chain solutions (like block size increase) "generally degrades the decentralized state of the network and cannot reach the millions of transactions per second the system would generate at world-scale". The solution is on second layer solutions like the lightning network for example.

You can of course have a different opinion, that is up to you, but those are valid points and time will tell if BTC devs are doing the right thing or not. I actually think they are, and I continue saying that there is no other coin with the potencial of BTC. Maybe some coins are "ahead" in the sort term, but crypto are here for the future, and it's better for development to take it's time, so that the final project is good enough to stay in our lives.

Reid

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Had been done but it is all for them. Took it as a fork and created their own coin.
Greed is there. Yes there is a larger block size and they are faster. But if that block size is not filled then it will take longer than expected.
If I were too choose I dont want any updates. Just take out the smaller transaction like a sending a dollar. Make a minimum for every transaction to avoid spam.
It is just the heavy traffic that had been the problem.

sheenshane

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There's an alternative way now that bitcoin make faster and cheaper fees, now they implemented lightning network and Segwit. These are may used to bitcoin make faster and cheaper transaction. Maybe satoshi did not do upgrading bitcoin because they afraid to reveal their whole life. Until now bitcoin and the developer still anonymous we even don't know who is really behind in bitcoin bit as what they say this is decentralized coins.

TepungBeras

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I think to change the bitcoin system is very difficult unlike coin coin altcoin, because the bitcoin like a mysterious coin that until now we do not see who the creation, and the system has been designed very good by the creator of bitcoin.

shindymlk

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thats not easy
bitcoin is decentralized cryptocurrency, if you want bitcoin like your statements, faster transaction speeds, privacy features, and ect. how about altcoin and another coins? maybe altcoin will died.

Little-loli

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Quote from: TheQuin on February 25, 2018, 11:44:35 AM

Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:38:36 AM

The nodes on the lighting network don't look "completely decentralised" to me, if you look at the live view of the lighting network nodes you can see a lot of centralization on the nodes with mostly 9 nodes connecting the 873 nodes together.

So you don't know what decentralised means. A picture often helps.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Centralised-decentralised-distributed.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Centralised-decentralised-distributed.png

Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:38:36 AM

And the "off-chain transactions" means the lightning network doesn't opperate on the blockchain right?

That's the point, Bitcoin is way ahead of the altcoins in making this possible.

Any reason it can't be distributed then?

Aura

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Quote from: richardsNY on February 25, 2018, 11:32:37 AM

Quote from: Aura on February 25, 2018, 11:19:34 AM

Also Bitcoin doesn't really need more privacy features then it already does, you can stay anonymus with Bitcoin as long as you are using it the right way, so that means no centralized wallets like Coinbase.

Bitcoin doesn't have any privacy features at all. It was never even 'advertised' as such. It's just people considering it to be anonymous because at that point services didn't need to bother their users with ID and address verification. Other than that, if you have used any centralized service in the past, you already failed to maintain "anonymous". The services that you used in the past have all your details and logs that are being kept for ever, and there is no way you can ask them to delete your details. I tried so with Bitstamp, and they said that they aren't legally allowed to do so. This basically means that all my personal information is stored on their (and probably government) servers for ever....

Not having to use any personal information to create a wallet, is a privacy feature. At least when you compare it to traditional banks that require you to give all your personal information. When you make a transaction the only thing that is public on the blockchain is your address, recipient address and the amount. You can't identify a person based on these 3 details, unless you use services that require you to fill down your information. But that's your own choice and won't protect your identity either if you used alternative chains with more advanced privacy features.

TheQuin

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:38:36 AM

The nodes on the lighting network don't look "completely decentralised" to me, if you look at the live view of the lighting network nodes you can see a lot of centralization on the nodes with mostly 9 nodes connecting the 873 nodes together.

So you don't know what decentralised means. A picture often helps.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Centralised-decentralised-distributed.png

Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:38:36 AM

And the "off-chain transactions" means the lightning network doesn't opperate on the blockchain right?

That's the point, Bitcoin is way ahead of the altcoins in making this possible.

Little-loli

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Quote from: TheQuin on February 25, 2018, 11:21:14 AM

Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:18:08 AM

Isn't Lighting Network more of a centralized solution and not part of the Bitcoin blockchain but a third party application?

No, it is completely decentralised. It is a layer 2 application which uses Segwit to enable off-chain transactions and there are currently 3 variations of software available, all open source.
This is why Bitcoin is already far ahead of the altcoin competitors.

The nodes on the lighting network don't look "completely decentralised" to me, if you look at the live view of the lighting network nodes you can see a lot of centralization on the nodes with mostly 9 nodes connecting the 873 nodes together. And the "off-chain transactions" means the lightning network doesn't opperate on the blockchain right?

richardsNY

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Quote from: Aura on February 25, 2018, 11:19:34 AM

Also Bitcoin doesn't really need more privacy features then it already does, you can stay anonymus with Bitcoin as long as you are using it the right way, so that means no centralized wallets like Coinbase.

Bitcoin doesn't have any privacy features at all. It was never even 'advertised' as such. It's just people considering it to be anonymous because at that point services didn't need to bother their users with ID and address verification. Other than that, if you have used any centralized service in the past, you already failed to maintain "anonymous". The services that you used in the past have all your details and logs that are being kept for ever, and there is no way you can ask them to delete your details. I tried so with Bitstamp, and they said that they aren't legally allowed to do so. This basically means that all my personal information is stored on their (and probably government) servers for ever....

ManaMan

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:18:08 AM

Isn't Lighting Network more of a centralized solution and not part of the Bitcoin blockchain but a third party application?

Lighting network surely has some "flaws" if you want to call them this way, because nodes must be online 24/7 and plus they have to be secure because they keep funds on them. Ln is not perfect in a way that some part of transactions still have to occur on the blockchain. And you are not even obligated to use LN if you don't want to. You can simply opt out, simple as that. And you could look at it as a 3rd party application or "smart contract" on bitcoin network. It is not so much centralized when you look at it, because of the way how is routing done, however there will be some bigger and smaller centralized hubs but your coins should be perfectly safe.

It's not like some misleading videos on youtube that I saw where they state it is centralized like banks bla bla bla, you have to understand how it works and not listen to some outsiders.

TheQuin

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:18:08 AM

Isn't Lighting Network more of a centralized solution and not part of the Bitcoin blockchain but a third party application?

No, it is completely decentralised. It is a layer 2 application which uses Segwit to enable off-chain transactions and there are currently 3 variations of software available, all open source.
This is why Bitcoin is already far ahead of the altcoin competitors.

Aura

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:05:09 AM

Why don't the developers just update Bitcoin like any other normal altcoin on the market?

For example give Bitcoin an update for larger block sizes, faster transactions speeds, privacy features, more transactions per second, lower fee's and maybe add in smart contracts.

You can't just implement faster transaction speeds or lower fees, both are results of multiple aspects. For example, faster block times can increase the transaction speed because more blocks are mined every time period but this can also be opposed if the traffic on the network starts to grow, which is the case with Bitcoin in comparison to altcoins. Also Bitcoin doesn't really need more privacy features then it already does, you can stay anonymus with Bitcoin as long as you are using it the right way, so that means no centralized wallets like Coinbase.

Little-loli

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Quote from: BitcoinHodler on February 25, 2018, 11:09:11 AM

Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:05:09 AM

Why don't the developers just update Bitcoin like any other normal altcoin on the market?

because bitcoin is decentralized and it is not like a centralized shitcoin which the owner aka the developer decides one day that he wants something and implements it in the morning and everyone either don't give a shit or have to follow.

Quote

For example give Bitcoin an update for larger block sizes, faster transactions speeds, privacy features, more transactions per second, lower fee's and maybe add in smart contracts.

all of these are already implemented!
- capacity increase through Segregated Witness and other solutions that are on the way.
- faster and cheaper and also more privacy and more TPS and no fees through lightning network
- smart contracts through side chains for free unlike ETH,...

Isn't Lighting Network more of a centralized solution and not part of the Bitcoin blockchain but a third party application?

Twentyacoin

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Because bitcoin has a dinosaur following.

These old fossils couldn't even decide on segwit until nov when the one dissenting faction decided not to fork.

They're that hard to come to a consensus. So updates take miracles to be agreed upon.

shimbark123

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It is just because Satoshi's not revealing himself as of now. But I believe that once he did that thing, everything will be so good. So smooth, many people are now going into bitcoin and I'm hoping that the price will go up if that happens.

TheQuin

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:05:09 AM

Why don't the developers just update Bitcoin like any other normal altcoin on the market?

For example give Bitcoin an update for larger block sizes, faster transactions speeds, privacy features, more transactions per second, lower fee's and maybe add in smart contracts.

You could do a bit of research into Segwit, implementing Segwit has increased the block size. Then reseach Lightning Network to see how transactions speeds are being made faster. You might also want to have a look at Omni Layer http://www.omnilayer.org/ which has been used for smart contracts on the Bitcoin Blockchain for a long time.

pri3oner

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Bitgesell (BGL) Decentralized Cryptocurrency!

As it's already said before me, there are concrete reasons.
But to defend BTC I wanna say that it has got some improvements.

Hexcolyte

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Quote from: Little-loli on February 25, 2018, 11:05:09 AM

Why don't the developers just update Bitcoin like any other normal altcoin on the market?

For example give Bitcoin an update for larger block sizes, faster transactions speeds, privacy features, more transactions per second, lower fee's and maybe add in smart contracts.

You need to reach consensus to make any configuration on the blockchain. Other altcoins are either only updating the client software, or they are controlling majority of the network and are able to upgrade it however they want.

Topic: Bitcoin upgrades (Read 187 times)