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Topic: Bitcoin vs Altcoin environment - page 2. (Read 420 times)

legendary
Activity: 1106
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Lightning network is good with small amount of BTC
January 14, 2022, 03:36:19 AM
#27
People need something new, some hype, now and then, some new trend. See fashion, colors, perfumes, even the look of your smartphone and browser are governed by "trends".
I guess that the same goes to financial experiments. There will always be something new for baiting small fish and make some smart guys rich.
And why not? few of those inventions may be actually good and stay. Actually I guess that a few of the 2017/2018 ICOs are still up and running too.
If you are smart, altcoins can be good for you but very risky, it is like gambling in some ways, I have a friend that got scammed of a coin created on Binance Smart Chain last year that was to be launched on December 1 2021, he invested and lost all his money. You know what that surprised me, he sent me a screen shot of the coin called Dxswap, he had the coin on trust wallet, when December 1 came, it was a scam, the coin was not seen on trust wallet again, those are ICO. There are many ways many people are scammed with altcoins and new projects but the people that have experience can still avoid many mistakes and make money from it. What about the DeFi scam, even it is not about professional, anyone can be scam. What I am seeing is that altcoins are leaving ways to new inventions but inventions that create more ways for scammers to be happy.
copper member
Activity: 2856
Merit: 3071
https://bit.ly/387FXHi lightning theory
January 14, 2022, 03:32:43 AM
#26
I like etherem as well and I have some.
However,  nobody really  knows what will eth be in the future.


I think eth also has one of the largest crypto communities (after bitcoin and crypto in general) which means it or a version of it will likely stay with us for a long time.

I saw an interview with antonopoulos recently,  where he was talking about it.

What will eth be? Ico, nft, defi, tokens? Everything is changing too fast and the goals are not clear. Now meta shows up, will eth be part of it?


Everything changes very often too with eth and I don't think some of the old parts of it lose out (icos aren't completely dead yet, and even when they are I can imagine some sort of initial exchange offering being set up instead for some coins - if people want them, they'll buy).

There's also going to be a lot of changes with the fundamentals of eth as to how it's mined and there may be differences with how the chain is stored too for a more decentralised approach.

legendary
Activity: 3668
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January 14, 2022, 03:26:59 AM
#25
I expect the current excitement over DeFi and NFTs end sooner or later, then we'll see what projects will prevail. I guess that will be few. I hope I'm wrong.
What if this is just the beginning. I've tried some of these defi products that's work on financial aspect like lending and borrowing and earning or yielding interest which is good that I may not be able to use on btc aside from holding. I believed the next hype is the full blown metaverse.

People need something new, some hype, now and then, some new trend. See fashion, colors, perfumes, even the look of your smartphone and browser are governed by "trends".
I guess that the same goes to financial experiments. There will always be something new for baiting small fish and make some smart guys rich.
And why not? few of those inventions may be actually good and stay. Actually I guess that a few of the 2017/2018 ICOs are still up and running too.
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1337
Lightning network is good with small amount of BTC
January 14, 2022, 03:11:54 AM
#24
Anyway, I'm sure some of what we call shitcoins will stay with us and have a use in society, no matter how centralized they are. The fiat money we use is also centralized and some people will even kill for it.
Altcoins are centralized and there are many scam in altcoins. See what I read about DeFi some weeks ago

https://www.bitcoininsider.org/article/143113/centralization-issues-are-biggest-culprits-defi-attacks-certik

I was thinking to make it a topic but I am thinking it is not necessary. Altcoins are centralized and scam is plenty in altcoins.

In just 2021, over 13 billion were stolen just about DeFi scam, there will be many more that are not recorded.

What I also noticed about altcoins is that they are deadly in bear market, some will decrease value, bring loss to people that buy them and will not increase like before.

See what Philipma1957 wrote which I see to be true

Maybe until you stop using altcoin for whatever purpose you used it then stop calling those even major coin as scam if you are setting order on trading and selling when they pump.
Altcoins are very volatile, it is the cause of many liquidation, bitcoin is volatile too but not like altcoins, I use altcoins too but I reduce my leverage after many liquidation when using 3x which is perfect for bitcoin.

What I hate about altcoins is that none is completely decentralized. If some nations are adopting coin, they will adopt bitcoin because all altcoins are controlled in a bit by their founder unlike bitcoin that will have to pass through the community first.

My friend lost money to DeFi last year, a very big amount of money.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1379
Fully Regulated Crypto Casino
January 14, 2022, 02:49:12 AM
#23
I have studied a dozen altcoins in depth at a technical level and have tested more than 50 of them. I'm greatly disappointed.
To name a few: LTC, DOGE, ETH, XRP, DASH, BYTECOIN, TETHER, BNB, STELLAR, TRON, IOTA, EOS, ZCASH, NEO, ...

The only thing I consider a serious project is Monero despite its terrible scaling issues.
No one can match up you here in terms of technicality and that's a fact maybe some others could. Your only basis of your dissapointment is the tech itself whether it can't scale or whatever in depth analysis you were saying. How about the simplest usage of it. For those others who doesn't have skills and deep knowledge on blockchain like yours, you can't simply level them on your toes. The basic that helps them the better which have found some on those shitcoin you mentioned.

No. I'm in cryptocurrency world for the technology and I'm in bitcoin to reach financial sovereignty.
Obviously you are in for the tech. But I'm not gonna believe earning isn't your also goal. You just made it sound cliche but reach financial sovereignty? You are in signature campaign earning bitcoin. Let say that the Chipmixer change the payment into ethereum would you still continue the participation? Can anybody suggest that to the manager and let see whose up for the money or the truly bitcoin maxi will leave since their payment would be an altcoin now.

There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to accept my opinion but I'll continue expressing it and won't change my opinion until I'm proven otherwise.
Maybe same goes for me. Keep your opinion and I'll keep mine. We have different beliefs regarding this aspect.

There is a different between trading altcoins to increase your bitcoin balance and bag holding altcoins thinking they have a good future. I also do the former but avoid the later... Kiss
Atleast you admit you can use that on trading but that's bad. You are using the altcoins (their capacity to pump) to file more bitcoin. I thought bitcoin maxi never gonna use altcoins whatever purpose they do. But using in trading. Hmm.

Maybe until you stop using altcoin for whatever purpose you used it then stop calling those even major coin as scam if you are setting order on trading and selling when they pump.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
January 14, 2022, 02:30:37 AM
#22
I am gonna wait until you used any altcoin in the future and see what you re gonna say about that.
I have studied a dozen altcoins in depth at a technical level and have tested more than 50 of them. I'm greatly disappointed.
To name a few: LTC, DOGE, ETH, XRP, DASH, BYTECOIN, TETHER, BNB, STELLAR, TRON, IOTA, EOS, ZCASH, NEO, ...

The only thing I consider a serious project is Monero despite its terrible scaling issues.

Does anyone even do this thing? It sounds silly! If you want to go from bitcoin to fiat then just sell bitcoin to fiat. Why sell it to another centralized altcoin then convert that to fiat by paying twice the fees?!!!
Yes many, of course if you are a trader then the bitcoin is up, of course you always convert that to stablecoin then if you feel like withdrawing that you'll use p2p. That's more often do on Binance. Yeah you'll never know cause you don't use that. Many here uses that so stop making like a bold statemetn that is anyone still doing that. As if no one do that.
That doesn't answer my question.


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but fundamental projects like ethereum
A centralized altcoin with mutable blockchain and fundamental protocol security flaws with a massive 72 million premine and an ICO scam that has also has a much worse scaling issue compare to bitcoin is not even a decent project.

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Why you are here in crypto? To earn right? I can't believe that it's not of your goal here. So whats the difference of us earning in bitcoin and altcoins?
No. I'm in cryptocurrency world for the technology and I'm in bitcoin to reach financial sovereignty.

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Stay on that side of the road I guess but we those who believe in potential of SOME altcoin as long as it help us on our potential financial then why do we called it scam. Yes there is scam out there and its inevitable but don't let us believe that some of us who earned from it is made out of scam.
There is nothing wrong with that. You don't have to accept my opinion but I'll continue expressing it and won't change my opinion until I'm proven otherwise.

Quote
I also hold bitcoin but you can't deny the fact that we multiply our portfolio more than we can by holding bitcoin alone.
There is a different between trading altcoins to increase your bitcoin balance and bag holding altcoins thinking they have a good future. I also do the former but avoid the later... Kiss
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1379
Fully Regulated Crypto Casino
January 14, 2022, 12:29:04 AM
#21
You should try not to confuse "pros and cons" with "serious flaws". For example a premined altcoin that is also centralized is seriously flawed, you can't define any pros for this altcoin even if it is being pumped and has given you a lot of profit.
It is like trying to talk about pros of a car such as its comfortable seats while it doesn't have an engine!
We all knew bitcoin is the ultimate decentralized platform. I'm not talking about xrp as one fo those potential one. I knew of it. I don't know eversince when someone talk altcoin you busted them liek there is no goodness on them. I know your a bitcoin maxi and will always be and I am gonna wait until you used any altcoin in the future and see what you re gonna say about that.

Does anyone even do this thing? It sounds silly! If you want to go from bitcoin to fiat then just sell bitcoin to fiat. Why sell it to another centralized altcoin then convert that to fiat by paying twice the fees?!!!
Yes many, of course if you are a trader then the bitcoin is up, of course you always convert that to stablecoin then if you feel like withdrawing that you'll use p2p. That's more often do on Binance. Yeah you'll never know cause you don't use that. Many here uses that so stop making like a bold statemetn that is anyone still doing that. As if no one do that.


Quote
No you are not alone, I will defend that not all altcoins are scams but also I defend that majority of them including the top altcoins are shitcoins.
Yeah exclude those shitcoin like memecoin but fundamental projects like ethereum and some rising fantom and those L1. Yes there are premined but you forgot the use case they gave the people which I'm sure bitcoin will never do. That's why there is an advantage. Why you are here in crypto? To earn right? I can't believe that it's not of your goal here. So whats the difference of us earning in bitcoin and altcoins?


Stay on that side of the road I guess but we those who believe in potential of SOME altcoin as long as it help us on our potential financial then why do we called it scam. Yes there is scam out there and its inevitable but don't let us believe that some of us who earned from it is made out of scam. I also hold bitcoin but you can't deny the fact that we multiply our portfolio more than we can by holding bitcoin alone.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 10611
January 14, 2022, 12:10:18 AM
#20
Some people are trying to redefine the term "bitcoin maximalist", maybe with good intentions. But the fact is that this term was first created and is currently mostly used as name calling when the altcoin bag holders have no arguments against the flaws others keep pointing out in their shitcoins.

So let's not sugar coat this term.

I've noticed that some users keeps saying altcoins are scam
Majority of altcoins are useless garbage made for pump and dumps, however there are only a handful of decent projects out there which nobody can deny. But since the top altcoins that are talked about the most are in fact shitcoins, it may be the reason why you thought people are calling "all" altcoins scams.

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altcoins are also have pros and cons.
You should try not to confuse "pros and cons" with "serious flaws". For example a premined altcoin that is also centralized is seriously flawed, you can't define any pros for this altcoin even if it is being pumped and has given you a lot of profit.
It is like trying to talk about pros of a car such as its comfortable seats while it doesn't have an engine!

Quote
they are becoming a profitable one
This is the main problem with cryptocurrency world in general. People are blinded by the profit they make so they ignore the serious flaws. For example almost all of the "most profitable" top ranking altcoins have mutable blockchains (in simple terms it means your transactions can be reversed if the centralized authority saw fit to reverse it), which means these coins should not even be alive let alone be pumped this much.

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- Used centralized market to cash out your fund converting to usdt/usdc then to fiat.
Does anyone even do this thing? It sounds silly! If you want to go from bitcoin to fiat then just sell bitcoin to fiat. Why sell it to another centralized altcoin then convert that to fiat by paying twice the fees?!!!

Quote
Am I the only who cares to defend that not all altcoins are scam?
No you are not alone, I will defend that not all altcoins are scams but also I defend that majority of them including the top altcoins are shitcoins.
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 1379
Fully Regulated Crypto Casino
January 13, 2022, 11:16:57 PM
#19
It can definitely be misunderstood. The common line from maximalists is "altcoins are scams", giving the impression that altcoins in it's entirety are scams; then when asked about it, they'll be more specific(and more realistic, which I mostly agree with): "99% of altcoins are scams".
So can you give me that 1% of yours that isn't considered scam. I'm not sure about that, but if youre doing one of the above I've mentioned, then where is your position in this debate. Are you in favor of altcoins or patronize btc but still doing some of these I've mentioned.

* and I own some  Tongue (to increase my sats)  Smiley
I remembered you promoted avalanche some quite time ago. I'm not sure if you like that or you'll convert that to sat as well.

I expect the current excitement over DeFi and NFTs end sooner or later, then we'll see what projects will prevail. I guess that will be few. I hope I'm wrong.
What if this is just the beginning. I've tried some of these defi products that's work on financial aspect like lending and borrowing and earning or yielding interest which is good that I may not be able to use on btc aside from holding. I believed the next hype is the full blown metaverse.
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1873
Crypto Swap Exchange
January 13, 2022, 03:25:58 PM
#18
My gut feeling says only few of 'em speaking truly know the definition of the words they speak.  See the reply previous to mine and you will know what I mean.  Too few know what a Bitcoin maximalist is and most of our Bitcoin Talk users seem to only be calling themselves this way when the conditions are met for a potential merit drop from someone else.

Not all Altcoins are scams.  There are in fact a few notable ones like Monero that still do not get the attention they deserve.

When it comes to Bitcoin maximalists, I perceive them similar to the way Peter Schiff has been perceived by most of us.  He seems or seemed to only appreciate and agree with Gold and Silver investments and was fully against Cryptocurrency investments or usage.  Maximalists will always exist in both of the Bitcoin and Altcoin ends.  To say that everything is a scam in the Altcoins world is indeed wrong.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
legendary
Activity: 2464
Merit: 1387
January 13, 2022, 03:06:05 PM
#17
I'm a Bitcoin maxi and have very little time for Altcoins eventhough I have a very small
amount of Ethereum and Litecoin.

One thing with Alt's is the "When Lambo" following they get and the hype which surrounds
certain projects at a given time. The attention a project gets can eventually evaporate when
a new flavour comes along and the following shifts in the belief that the new project is going
to provide that Lambo, and on it goes.

As regards projects themselves, it seems the space is quite crowded, I'm there is a lot
of duplicity?

Bitcoin is what it is, it doesnt have a competitor.

hero member
Activity: 1666
Merit: 709
January 13, 2022, 01:08:43 PM
#16
Well definitely I would say I am Bitcoin maxi on this one, I have real no experience in Alt-coins I have to be honest, but I believe in research so far I have been able to avoid Lossing my capital every since I start to prefer Bitcoin, and I am confident in Bitcoin even if it drops so low today, it has been consistent for more years than I can even research on, but I have heard several sad story from people experiences with alt-coins, I have to learn from people rather than wait to be affected, definitely there are good alt-coins, but some of them has already gone high so it's still safer buying Bitcoin rather than risking same amount on them.
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1141
January 13, 2022, 01:06:47 PM
#15
Apart from bitcoin, altcoin are a great option for increasing profit during a bull market. I don't agree that all altcoin can give us a commensurate profit, but the current list of 10 altcoin can explain that it can give us an advantage. I am not a hypocrite, altcoin have given me a lot of profit where it is able to give me the opportunity to buy bitcoin somewhere.

I agree with the opinion that not all altcoin are scams, but I believe we should do more analysis when we want to invest in altcoin. People believe in the future potential of bitcoin, but many people doubt the future of good altcoin especially the unknown ones.
legendary
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January 13, 2022, 01:01:08 PM
#14
I feel that most of those telling that all altcoins are scams are people who don't care that much about bitcoin either as technology; all they care about is price and profit.
Then yes, since they've got disappointed or potentially disappointed by altcoins, they say a lot of things.

If one has a bit more knowledge or it's at least open minded, he can see that altcoins:
* can be testing ground for various ideas which may or may not get into bitcoin itself
* open new horizons - from smart contracts (with good and bad) to full anonymity or different ways of storing data and sending transactions

Yes, many (most!) altcoins and tokens were made only for quick money. But scams do exist in cryptosphere with and without altcoins / tokens.
Imho the altcoins that only changed the mining algorithm are more or less copycats/shitcoins and kinda doomed (and unfortunately Litecoin may be in this group too).

Unfortunately for the altcoins, their price is extremely dependent to Bitcoin's - because this is how exchanges were made and this is how people's investments go - and this makes them a risky (and often bad) investment. The fact that many were built as scams or became scams (or just deserted) didn't help.


I cannot tell much about DeFi and NFT though. They are imho not mature and not properly thought. Current way of handling NFTs is sub-optimal to say it nicely, leading to potential problems. DeFi had its share of hacks telling by itself that it needs.. something. But I was here in the golden age of ICO, hence this time I chose to stay away. I expect the current excitement over DeFi and NFTs end sooner or later, then we'll see what projects will prevail. I guess that will be few. I hope I'm wrong.
legendary
Activity: 2226
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Currently not much available - see my websitelink
January 13, 2022, 12:56:26 PM
#13
If you are fudding altcoins but you do any of the above then what are you hypocrite?
Yes, I like FUDing Altcoins. * Smiley Smiley

Especially centralized Altcoins, so 99% of all Altcoins are affected. Let's call them Shitcoins.
In my opinion, it's important to have a detailed analysis of an Altcoin and everyone should call out at least the worst Shitcoins.

Especially XRP, BSV and Tron because for my impression, they are the most dishonest ones deceiving holders and Newbies.
Somehow, it's our responsibility to call out Shitcoins.
But if we start categorizing "worst ones" and "less bad ones" it's always an issue because people feel, some even very centralized Shitcoins are more legitimate...

After all, reading a lot also about Altcoins can be very interesting for people to know why Bitcoin has advantages.
Even the most realible PoS coins are still less legitimate because PoS has huge issues.


* and I own some  Tongue (to increase my sats)  Smiley


mk4
legendary
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January 13, 2022, 12:54:43 PM
#12
I've been seeing a lot of sort of "maxis" here that sometimes advocate for using certain altcoins(like LTC) when transferring funds in a quicker and cheaper manner(e.g. exchange<->exchange transfers). I think there's nothing wrong with it; because despite the likes of LTC being bad and unnecessary, it's just logical to use it at certain(albeit kinda rare) circumstances.

Maximalism is mostly the views/opinions; not necessarily that they're 100% banning themselves from using other coins when it makes things faster/cheaper for them sometimes. And I'm pretty sure a lot of maximalists trade altcoins as well, solely to increase their BTC stack.

I think one of the problems is just that a lot of maximalists still think that most of these altcoins are trying to compete against bitcoin, which is definitely not the case. I'm pretty sure every non-noob cryptocurrency enthusiasts knows that bitcoin won it's category already, and most altcoins(that are not straight-up trash like XRP) are pretty much just pseudo-equity(decision voting and revenue share) to certain platforms. No one cares about the likes of BCH/BSV anymore; we're not in 2016-2017. They can call the cryptocurrency space stupid, but it's definitely not as stupid as it was back then.

Am I the only who cares to defend that not all altcoins are scam? I'm betting not. Btw I'm also uses btc so you can technically called me btc maxi. user
It can definitely be misunderstood. The common line from maximalists is "altcoins are scams", giving the impression that altcoins in it's entirety are scams; then when asked about it, they'll be more specific(and more realistic, which I mostly agree with): "99% of altcoins are scams".
hero member
Activity: 1442
Merit: 775
January 13, 2022, 12:35:46 PM
#11
Altcoins have use cases are good enough and if they can keep their use cases alive, keep their communities exist, they will survive in crypto market. They might not have big pumps, big growths but survive is a great success already.

Pumps or short term price rises are not indicators for success of a project. Long survived use cases are better ones to prove that a project achieves something.

In short term, bad altcoin projects can try to build up some use cases for their coins, tokens but after few months and in the end, they end with no active use cases, dead communities and project finishes its lifespan with death.

It's vital. Dogecoin does not need to have great technology but its communities, use cases contribute to make it as one of best altcoins with very long survival time in the market.
hero member
Activity: 1358
Merit: 851
January 13, 2022, 12:18:37 PM
#10
It's really something you have to have experience with. Just sharing something from someone I know. That guy started 2017 with 15ish BTC. After a few months, he invested in a few altcoins. He was definitely up and was in profit in terms of $$$ even at the time of 2017 & 2018 bullrun but he was not anymore able to recover his 15ish BTC. Can you imagine? At the end of the day, he was a loser in terms of BTC. Shouldn't they call it a scam? I guess that's the point. Altcoins are there with their benefits but they are also here to steal your Bitcoin (some maxi already said that, I can't remember who it was).
legendary
Activity: 2618
Merit: 1181
January 13, 2022, 12:11:45 PM
#9
I love bitcoin and I love altcoin too. For different needs when bitcoin transaction fees increase then some low fee altcoin will be an option for me to use. I wouldn't say I'm one of those people who hate altcoin, actually I have quite a few altcoin in my portfolio till now.

I'm trying to find some reasons why people tend to think of altcoin as shitcoin, it's simply that they don't have any real use cases in different countries. Centralization is another reason why they have started to ignore it as a means of payment, but some of them may still use it as an attempt to make a profit. Neutrality without being hypocritical about altcoin is what I have done so far to make a profit especially on investing and trading.
legendary
Activity: 2352
Merit: 6089
bitcoindata.science
January 13, 2022, 11:50:15 AM
#8

I've met people that are very interested in other coins too (a few who exclusively like ethereum for example). Most altcoins are kinda experimental though too (so is bitcoin to an extent, but a lot of people have heard about bitcoin so its name carries value) but it does mean that you'd be taking quite a lot of risk trying to hold altcoins imo for a long time if you intend to just come back to your portfolio at a later date.

I like etherem as well and I have some.
However,  nobody really  knows what will eth be in the future.

I saw an interview with antonopoulos recently,  where he was talking about it.

What will eth be? Ico, nft, defi, tokens? Everything is changing too fast and the goals are not clear. Now meta shows up, will eth be part of it?

Quote
“The future of Ethereum, of course, is much more uncertain than that of Bitcoin. Because Ethereum’s use cases is so much more open, because it’s a programmable blockchain with so many different possibilities, you tend to get whiplash if you tried to pay attention to what’s the current model of what Ethereum is pursuing right now. Is it ICOs, like it was in 2017? Is it tokens, like it was shortly before and shortly after? Is it decentralized finance, which it’s been doing for the last 2 and 1/2, three years? Is it non-fungible tokens? The simple answer is all of the above, and whatever sticks. And that can be disorienting, confusing, and very much look like a scattershot approach to innovation.”
https://dailyhodl.com/2021/03/02/ethereums-future-is-far-more-uncertain-than-bitcoins-says-andreas-antonopoulos/


Bitcoin goals are much more clear are objective,  since its creation: to become a global decentralized currency. Period.

I think it is worth to invest in altcoins,  as cryptocurrency might be a huge part of our future. And bitcoin won't be alone. But bitcoin is by far may main bet and investment
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