Topic: Bitcoin vs Gold Debate Settled - page 2. (Read 583 times)
for the short-term chart bitcoin wins because the price is very fast increasing. but for bitcoin price resilience to lose to gold, gold is stronger and more stable than the price. So it's too early for bitcoin wins but bitcoin is potentially good in the short term
The extremely limited data point doesn't prove anything. The claim that the debate is "settled" is reckless considering you've started at an arbitrary point, ended at an arbitrary point, and have an extremely limited amount of data in support of the claim. You can make the data "prove" any point you want with such disreputable tactics.
I think we are at a great moment in time, when Gold might no longer be considered the supreme asset that we use to hedge against economic crisis.
As Wozniak said, one cannot mess with mathematics. Once the numbers are in place, you cannot move them. Paired with the blockchain technology BTC is bound to be the highlight of the century IMO.
As Wozniak said, one cannot mess with mathematics. Once the numbers are in place, you cannot move them. Paired with the blockchain technology BTC is bound to be the highlight of the century IMO.
That's a great interview in the link btw. Highly recommend. Wozniak's comments about the evolution of ground penetrating radar coupled with more efficient methods being devised to mine gold. Contrasting with bitcoin's mining being statically regulated by algorithm. That has always stuck with me as one of the smartest things said in the gold vs bitcoin debate.
After years of debate BTCitcoin is pulling ahead of gold on short term charts.
Can we announce bitcoin the winner. Or would it be premature.
I'm really glad to know that we finally won't hear more of this "debate" which was more of a endless argument.After years of debate BTCitcoin is pulling ahead of gold on short term charts.
Can we announce bitcoin the winner. Or would it be premature.
That doesn't matter what is the result of this debate, to be honest.
I still see this as a speculation about something we don't know yet.
It will take another 10 years of bitcoin observation to draw a decent conclusion
In terms of value, BTC clearly wins over Gold and Silver currently, but I don't think this should be our primary focus because we are treating BTC primarily as an asset in this scenario and not as a currency.
Value can be subjective too though. Bitcoin might be winning in terms of USD value right now but if you look at the market cap, gold is obviously far ahead. To be honest, I don't think neither needs to compete with each other. They both have independent usage which can be an advantage if used right. It's just that, people are treating gold as if its only purpose is to be an investment.
both are different and in my opinion it is not debatable
True, but for different reason. I don't know why but everyone always seems to forget that gold is just a piece of metal, whereas bitcoin has much more use case than being a store of value. The only similarity bitcoin and gold share, in my opinion, is thier rarity. Everyone always say bitcoin is digital gold but in reality bitcoin is much more than just a "rare thing" with value. Quote
Can we announce bitcoin the winner. Or would it be premature.
Yes, we can announce bitcoin the winner base on the result we saw during the pandemic that make many currencies devalue during the process which was making bitcoin price increasing in the exchange market. Gold is not yet improve since we came back from pandemic, despite the year remain 13 days to end the year 2020. Bitcoin is still pumping in the market, nearly to reach $25k despite what covid-19 has caused in the world economy . 
both are different and in my opinion it is not debatable, gold has a much more stable value and is also a real thing that we can see while bitcoin has an indeterminate value and we can only see it as a number
As you can see in the chart, it is clear which one is better and which one to choose. In my opinion, Bitcoin will be able to make big profits faster with a high risk. And gold is indeed a stable price and low risk, but it will take too long to get a big profit.
The supply is scarce though or locked/hidden somewhere(esp in the earth) people can't easily access.
Digging it out of the earth will likely not be that sustainable or safe for the earth considering the large population of human and our "consumption" appetite.
Better to use "string of numbers" for representing values and gold as an optional material for preservation of the values/numbers, and as an optional medium of exchanging the value/numbers.
This and couple of other things make something like Bitcoin better money.
Digging it out of the earth will likely not be that sustainable or safe for the earth considering the large population of human and our "consumption" appetite.
Better to use "string of numbers" for representing values and gold as an optional material for preservation of the values/numbers, and as an optional medium of exchanging the value/numbers.
This and couple of other things make something like Bitcoin better money.
Quote
The supply of gold is finite.
Wanted to take a second to say gold can be produced from mercury via nuclear reactor.
The supply of gold can be inflated. ATM it is not cost effective to do so. Perhaps this could change in the future.
this isn't a perfect analogy of course, but it's worth pointing out there have been a couple bugs in bitcoin's history (2010, 2018) that did/would allow for supply inflation.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-duplicate-input-vulnerability-shouldnt-be-forgotten-5035144
the inflation can be forked out of course, but it would be a mess.
Well, technically he is right. Because we do not know the exact number of golds in the world, we know that it is finite and we know that there isn't that much left neither, so that is totally understandable to say that gold will not be too much more and it is finite and scarcity increases the price just like bitcoin.
However there is no doubt in the world that there could be some more gold found somewhere around the world, not a huge sum obviously, you are going to find mountains of gold anywhere in the world, you are lucky to find gold at car size, most of the time not even that, all the ones that are mining right now are already figured out, even if not in calculation yet, we know it is there. It means gold will be found in small amounts and not exact number just yet, which I can understand. Possibly another option is humanity is going towards space, who knows maybe there is gold to mine there as well?
However there is no doubt in the world that there could be some more gold found somewhere around the world, not a huge sum obviously, you are going to find mountains of gold anywhere in the world, you are lucky to find gold at car size, most of the time not even that, all the ones that are mining right now are already figured out, even if not in calculation yet, we know it is there. It means gold will be found in small amounts and not exact number just yet, which I can understand. Possibly another option is humanity is going towards space, who knows maybe there is gold to mine there as well?
For me, since 2017 Bitcoin has been the winner, as Wozniak said, nobody can change mathematics. This makes Bitcoin have a fixed supply,
which of course Gold doesn't have. Moreover, looking at the performance comparison of Bitcoin and Gold this year, it is clear that Bitcoin is
better than Gold. So for me the Bitcoin vs Gold debate is over.
which of course Gold doesn't have. Moreover, looking at the performance comparison of Bitcoin and Gold this year, it is clear that Bitcoin is
better than Gold. So for me the Bitcoin vs Gold debate is over.
Quote
The supply of gold is finite.
Wanted to take a second to say gold can be produced from mercury via nuclear reactor.
The supply of gold can be inflated. ATM it is not cost effective to do so. Perhaps this could change in the future.
Quote
Chrysopoeia, the artificial production of gold, is the symbolic goal of alchemy. Such transmutation is possible in particle accelerators or nuclear reactors, although the production cost is currently many times the market price of gold.
Gold synthesis in a nuclear reactor
Gold was synthesized from mercury by neutron bombardment in 1941, but the isotopes of gold produced were all radioactive.[12] In 1924, a Japanese physicist, Hantaro Nagaoka, accomplished the same feat.[13]
Gold can currently be manufactured in a nuclear reactor by the irradiation of either platinum or mercury.
Only the mercury isotope 196Hg, which occurs with a frequency of 0.15% in natural mercury, can be converted to gold by slow neutron capture, and following electron capture, decay into gold's only stable isotope, 197Au. When other mercury isotopes are irradiated with slow neutrons, they also undergo neutron capture, but either convert into each other or beta decay into the thallium isotopes 203Tl and 205Tl.
Using fast neutrons, the mercury isotope 198Hg, which composes 9.97% of natural mercury, can be converted by splitting off a neutron and becoming 197Hg, which then decays into stable gold. This reaction, however, possesses a smaller activation cross-section and is feasible only with unmoderated reactors.
It is also possible to eject several neutrons with very high energy into the other mercury isotopes in order to form 197Hg. However such high-energy neutrons can be produced only by particle accelerators.[clarification needed].
In 1980, Glenn Seaborg transmuted several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. His experimental technique was able to remove protons and neutrons from the bismuth atoms. Seaborg's technique was far too expensive to enable the routine manufacture of gold but his work is the closest yet to emulating the mythical Philosopher's Stone.[14][15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals#Gold
Gold synthesis in a nuclear reactor
Gold was synthesized from mercury by neutron bombardment in 1941, but the isotopes of gold produced were all radioactive.[12] In 1924, a Japanese physicist, Hantaro Nagaoka, accomplished the same feat.[13]
Gold can currently be manufactured in a nuclear reactor by the irradiation of either platinum or mercury.
Only the mercury isotope 196Hg, which occurs with a frequency of 0.15% in natural mercury, can be converted to gold by slow neutron capture, and following electron capture, decay into gold's only stable isotope, 197Au. When other mercury isotopes are irradiated with slow neutrons, they also undergo neutron capture, but either convert into each other or beta decay into the thallium isotopes 203Tl and 205Tl.
Using fast neutrons, the mercury isotope 198Hg, which composes 9.97% of natural mercury, can be converted by splitting off a neutron and becoming 197Hg, which then decays into stable gold. This reaction, however, possesses a smaller activation cross-section and is feasible only with unmoderated reactors.
It is also possible to eject several neutrons with very high energy into the other mercury isotopes in order to form 197Hg. However such high-energy neutrons can be produced only by particle accelerators.[clarification needed].
In 1980, Glenn Seaborg transmuted several thousand atoms of bismuth into gold at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory. His experimental technique was able to remove protons and neutrons from the bismuth atoms. Seaborg's technique was far too expensive to enable the routine manufacture of gold but his work is the closest yet to emulating the mythical Philosopher's Stone.[14][15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthesis_of_precious_metals#Gold
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Can we announce bitcoin the winner. Or would it be premature.
[/quote]
What Steve Wozniak said deserves thumbs up. he said very precisely and broke all the polemic about bitcoin and gold. this is absolutely proven.
It is time and cannot be said to be premature, it is ripe and very mature in recognizing the ferocity of Bitcoin in the market. The position of gold has begun to slip and is no longer mainstream by all major investors. This of course created a massive and unstoppable demand for bitcoin.
Actually, we should not debate about those two because both have different unique attributes like he said gold supply can not be measured but Bitcoin is fixed because math can not be changed. But Gold has a physical form which also makes it unique from bitcoin. People also trust what they see so for now we can say both are very good investment sites and both have potential growth over time.
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Steve Wozniak is famous for making some of the sharper comments in the gold vs bitcoin debate:
Quote
Wozniak Thinks Bitcoin Is Better Than Gold
OCTOBER 23, 2017
He said, gold does not necessarily have a fixed supply either, because humans will continue to find more efficient ways to dig it out of the earth.
“Gold gets mined and mined and mined,” Wozniak said. “Maybe there’s a finite amount of gold in the world, but Bitcoin is even more mathematical and regulated and nobody can change mathematics.”
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/money2020-wozniak-thinks-bitcoin-better-gold
OCTOBER 23, 2017
He said, gold does not necessarily have a fixed supply either, because humans will continue to find more efficient ways to dig it out of the earth.
“Gold gets mined and mined and mined,” Wozniak said. “Maybe there’s a finite amount of gold in the world, but Bitcoin is even more mathematical and regulated and nobody can change mathematics.”
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/money2020-wozniak-thinks-bitcoin-better-gold
....
That's a great interview in the link btw. Highly recommend. Wozniak's comments about the evolution of ground penetrating radar coupled with more efficient methods being devised to mine gold. Contrasting with bitcoin's mining being statically regulated by algorithm. That has always stuck with me as one of the smartest things said in the gold vs bitcoin debate.
After years of debate BTCitcoin is pulling ahead of gold on short term charts.
Can we announce bitcoin the winner. Or would it be premature.
OP, I believe the current market condition only proved that Bitcoin's market is more volatile than Gold, not that it's simply a "better" SOV. Change a current market condition not favorable for Bitcoin, then Gold could be better.
As a form of self-sovereign SOV, censorship-resistant hard money, Bitcoin.
As a form of self-sovereign SOV, censorship-resistant hard money, Bitcoin.
That's a pretty nice chart. The correlation between gold and bitcoins seems broken now. I agree that holding Bitcoins is more profitable than holding gold, also it's much easier to store than gold. The world is already looking towards recovery from the pandemic, and gold tends to perform better in times of crisis. I Would still recommend every investors to hold a few commodities in his portfolio. It doesn't have to be gold, I could be a basket out of precious metals.
It's gonna be a long, never-ending debate. Gold has its own advantages, Bitcoin has its own. Comparing them is useless. BTC simply isn't gold and that's it. It's something we've never had before and I know that humans like to compare new stuff to the older, but in the end crypto is simply a new niche and we have to accept that.
Adding another zero after the "." might therefore be a better plan instead. The supply would still be the same (21M coins), but we'd be able to spend a 10th or a 100th of 1 sat.
Bitcoin supply is limited,but that depends on the consensus inside the BTC community.The global 21M BTC mining limitation isn't "carved in stone" and can be changed,as long as there is consensus for such change.
I'm glad that there's no consensus for changing this rule,which proves that decentralization and democracy
Changing the supply limit would be very counterproductive. Best thing we can do is change the denomination once Bitcoin becomes worth more than $100,000-1,000,000, because 1 satoshi would then be worth $0.001 and fees could become too expensive.I'm glad that there's no consensus for changing this rule,which proves that decentralization and democracy
Adding another zero after the "." might therefore be a better plan instead. The supply would still be the same (21M coins), but we'd be able to spend a 10th or a 100th of 1 sat.
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