Bitcoin vs. Gold, Fiat and Altcoins (Updated: Traits of Money) - page 3.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on December 15, 2018, 10:54:38 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 15, 2018, 10:10:15 PM

price targets at $1500 and below are a dime a dozen these days. it's certainly possible, but it really seems like bears are getting too confident.

Normally you would be right but he isn't a "dime a dozen" analyst.

Sold his position in bitcoin at 18,000 last year (the videos are still on his youtube channel from last year).

Predicted the .com bubble and 1987 bond market crash when he was on wall street.

And he loves bitcoin..... his call is still $1,000.

you're cherry picking. even if he's an excellent analyst, he has undoubtedly been wrong many hundreds or thousands of times. great traders still get it wrong half the time.

it's nothing against him personally. it's just that when everyone expects the same thing, it never happens. everyone and their grandma thinks they can get $1000 coins now. i won't rule it out, but i wouldn't be particularly confident either.

setialovers

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In cryptocurrency market, bitcoin dominate more than 50% in market cap value. As main base currency in cryptomarket, bitcoin holding an important role because its main currency, but i think as investment, bitcoin more trusted compare altcoin

BuyBuyBitcoin

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Get Maximalist or Get Wrecked

Quote from: BrewMaster on December 16, 2018, 11:46:46 AM

Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on December 15, 2018, 10:54:38 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 15, 2018, 10:10:15 PM

price targets at $1500 and below are a dime a dozen these days. it's certainly possible, but it really seems like bears are getting too confident.

Normally you would be right but he isn't a "dime a dozen" analyst.

Sold his position in bitcoin at 18,000 last year (the videos are still on his youtube channel from last year).

Predicted the .com bubble and 1987 bond market crash when he was on wall street.

And he loves bitcoin..... his call is still $1,000.

it is a well known fact that all those who waste their time "selling advice" instead of "trading" are not really experts. specially someone who is talking about bitcoin at this time which clearly is only shooting in the dark!

these days people are making a lot of silly guesses about bitcoin. and you know what, some of them do come true! but that doesn't make them an expert. in my view someone who is calling $1000 is an idiot not because i think it is impossible but because there is no reason for it to be possible. it is basically a price below the start of last rally!

Correct, that is why we only follow/mention the traders that left wall street and only look for positions to accumulate more Bitcoin.

Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on December 15, 2018, 06:19:47 PM

Very experienced traders (Tone Vays, Nick Core) were hoping Tyler Jenkins was off with his call months ago.

8:00 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBUZXG2jeVU

** Note: For anyone interested in his hyperwave theory and how long he has traded for wall street based on this trading theory (other traders are just starting to learn his method) he goes into some details here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50ruB0sbwIg

There aren't a lot of people who successfully traded on wall street that now primarily chart bitcoin and offer free videos on youtube, with accurate predictions on where the buy and sell levels are.

BrewMaster

legendary

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There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on December 15, 2018, 10:54:38 PM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 15, 2018, 10:10:15 PM

price targets at $1500 and below are a dime a dozen these days. it's certainly possible, but it really seems like bears are getting too confident.

Normally you would be right but he isn't a "dime a dozen" analyst.

Sold his position in bitcoin at 18,000 last year (the videos are still on his youtube channel from last year).

Predicted the .com bubble and 1987 bond market crash when he was on wall street.

And he loves bitcoin..... his call is still $1,000.

it is a well known fact that all those who waste their time "selling advice" instead of "trading" are not really experts. specially someone who is talking about bitcoin at this time which clearly is only shooting in the dark!

these days people are making a lot of silly guesses about bitcoin. and you know what, some of them do come true! but that doesn't make them an expert. in my view someone who is calling $1000 is an idiot not because i think it is impossible but because there is no reason for it to be possible. it is basically a price below the start of last rally!

BuyBuyBitcoin

member

Activity: 126

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Get Maximalist or Get Wrecked

Quote from: figmentofmyass on December 15, 2018, 10:10:15 PM

price targets at $1500 and below are a dime a dozen these days. it's certainly possible, but it really seems like bears are getting too confident.

Normally you would be right but he isn't a "dime a dozen" analyst.

Sold his position in bitcoin at 18,000 last year (the videos are still on his youtube channel from last year).

Predicted the .com bubble and 1987 bond market crash when he was on wall street.

And he loves bitcoin..... his call is still $1,000.

figmentofmyass

legendary

Activity: 1652

Merit: 1483

Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on December 15, 2018, 06:19:47 PM

Everyone is calling for a $1000 - $1200 BTC coming, there is no support at the current level.

actually, the $3000 zone held as a monthly pivot twice last year. and we have long term MA support right above and below $3k. this is the first time since the december 2017 crash that we've approached a historical support level.

also, when everyone predicts the same thing, it never happens. price targets at $1500 and below are a dime a dozen these days. it's certainly possible, but it really seems like bears are getting too confident.

BuyBuyBitcoin

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Get Maximalist or Get Wrecked

Quote from: Pursuer on December 15, 2018, 01:39:01 AM

can we really call this a bear market? a bear market is where prices continue to fall and it is best to sell than buy. what we have in bitcoin was a bear market at least 4 months ago and it ended then we had an unexpected and unexplainable drop which evaporated the buy support and price dropped to a lower price. I don't call that a bear market.

Everyone is calling for a $1000 - $1200 BTC coming, there is no support at the current level.

Very experienced traders (Tone Vays, Nick Core) were hoping Tyler Jenkins was off with his call months ago.

8:00 mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBUZXG2jeVU

Old men don't lie about this stuff Grin

Hate to say it but it doesn't look like a good buy until that price range comes in.

** Note: For anyone interested in his hyperwave theory and how long he has traded for wall street based on this trading theory (other traders are just starting to learn his method) he goes into some details here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50ruB0sbwIg

BuyBuyBitcoin

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Get Maximalist or Get Wrecked

Quote from: CryptoBry on December 15, 2018, 01:23:19 AM

Quote from: mu_enrico on December 14, 2018, 01:28:07 PM

Nice comparison! However, I also agree about user-friendliness should be mentioned in the above table. I also propose one more variable to discuss, that is "offline use" or similar. The major drawback of bitcoin is too reliant on the internet. While bitcoin/crypto might flourish in many years to come, at the moment, many places still don't have a stable internet connection (or no connection at all). People need time to treat bitcoin as (or more) valuable as gold or cash since these assets have hundred years of history in human civilization.

This can be the reason why while we are welcoming change we should not assume that all people can go for cryptocurrency as there are situations when technology is not available. Can you imagine if there will no internet or there will no gadget...how can you pay for something you direly need to buy? Or if you are buying something from traditional farmers who don't care about Bitcoin? Cryptocurrency should be taken as an additional choice we can use and not a total replacement for things that are still working. We should not be blinded with realities surrounding us otherwise we can be creating problems instead of solutions.

The places technology aren't available though still become easier to serve for crypto.

The alternative is to build banks in the area's without banks currently. Whereas internet is becoming available in more places and cell phones are cheap as hell around the world.

If it were easier to build banks in these areas, there wouldn't be 2 billion people unbanked currently.

mu_enrico

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Slots Enthusiast & Expert

@1Referee @squatter
Actually, for a small amount of money, a gift card/voucher will do the job. Buyers only have to scratch the back of the card to get the private key. Perhaps a QR code would be beautiful. Yeah, it still requires a trusted party as the card issuer (and of course the card seller). But for $5 or $10 gift card, the risk is not that big. It's similar to print your paper wallet with $5 or $10 worth of BTC inside it.

But still, users need to use the internet to swipe/use the private key.

Pursuer

legendary

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Where is my ring of blades...

can we really call this a bear market? a bear market is where prices continue to fall and it is best to sell than buy. what we have in bitcoin was a bear market at least 4 months ago and it ended then we had an unexpected and unexplainable drop which evaporated the buy support and price dropped to a lower price. I don't call that a bear market.

as for the comparison I think these types of comparison are not exactly the best. for example comparing bitcoin with fiat makes sense because you are comparing two forms of currency but comparing bitcoin to gold doesn't since gold has not been a currency for centuries.

CryptoBry

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Quote from: mu_enrico on December 14, 2018, 01:28:07 PM

Nice comparison! However, I also agree about user-friendliness should be mentioned in the above table. I also propose one more variable to discuss, that is "offline use" or similar. The major drawback of bitcoin is too reliant on the internet. While bitcoin/crypto might flourish in many years to come, at the moment, many places still don't have a stable internet connection (or no connection at all). People need time to treat bitcoin as (or more) valuable as gold or cash since these assets have hundred years of history in human civilization.

This can be the reason why while we are welcoming change we should not assume that all people can go for cryptocurrency as there are situations when technology is not available. Can you imagine if there will no internet or there will no gadget...how can you pay for something you direly need to buy? Or if you are buying something from traditional farmers who don't care about Bitcoin? Cryptocurrency should be taken as an additional choice we can use and not a total replacement for things that are still working. We should not be blinded with realities surrounding us otherwise we can be creating problems instead of solutions.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on December 14, 2018, 03:35:23 AM

Durability and Security are kind of interchangeable (assuming a "new" coin) as it depends what the development team created and who has checked the actual code.

this is one of the biggest problems with altcoins which is usually overlooked.
it is partly about code review by others but the main thing about this serious problem is lack of testing which comes from lack of usage. for example look at bitcoin, it is the most used and as a result the bugs come out faster and you can consider bitcoin today as battle hardened. but it is not true about altcoins since they are not used enough for their bugs to come out.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

Quote from: 1Referee on December 14, 2018, 04:44:43 PM

Quote from: mu_enrico on December 14, 2018, 01:28:07 PM

I also propose one more variable to discuss, that is "offline use" or similar. The major drawback of bitcoin is too reliant on the internet.

It's definitely an interesting subject. I know of people transacting with physical Bitcoins which requires no internet connection at all. It's basically transacting in private keys, but it seems to work very well if you are dealing with a trusted party. I have bought unfunded Denarium Bitcoins and funded them myself to use at whatever point in time may there not be an internet connection available.

That only seems to work with a trusted party. Otherwise you need an internet connection to prove that a bearer instrument (like an Opendime) really contains bitcoins. The seller might know the Opendime is loaded, but the buyer doesn't.

Quote from: 1Referee on December 14, 2018, 04:44:43 PM

The best thing is that you can move value without anyone else noticing anything, because the funds don't move on-chain. I expect this field to bloom even more in the forthcoming years, all to make sure the trust aspect becomes less of an obstacle with usefulness intact.

I like the idea of keeping funds static as well, which is why I find Opendimes so appealing. However, I'm slightly paranoid they could be tampered with to reveal the private key without anyone knowing.

BrewMaster

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There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: BuyBuyBitcoin on December 14, 2018, 03:35:23 AM

a bear market, which many are crediting to alt-coins....

i don't think anybody is crediting the bear market to altcoins. there have been times when the massive dumps of altcoins has initiated a drop in bitcoin and placed some pressure on bitcoin price but they are not the whole reason.

Quote

To include Alt-coins along with bitcoin

the image is wrong simply because you are including one column that says "crypto". what the hell is "crypto"? cryptocurrency or altcoins consists of more than 2000 different projects! and you can't categorize all of them in one column and then compare THAT with bitcoin.
it is like comparing gold with elements instead of comparing gold with platinum, aluminum,...
so for example when you say High for fungability which coin do you have in mind? i can think of hundreds that aren't and dozens that are.
or when you say low for decentralized again i can think of dozens that are decentralized while many aren't.

timerland

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This is something that everyone that is criticizing bitcoin for not having "intrinsic value" should take a look at.

People don't realize this, but it's the fundamentals that bitcoin is run under that makes it valuable. It is decentralized, just like gold, yet it is much more portable and divisible that gold can ever be. It doesn't have the inflationary traits that fiat does, which means that in the long term prices should act as a hedge against fiat inflation, if demand for bitcoin as a currency/store of value stays the same.

It's these utilities that bitcoin has that gives it value. Unlike what others say, fiat is the complete opposite when it comes to it having intrinsic value. The central bank can print more of it as we speak, and hyperinflation resulting from mismanagement is common. Bitcoin solves the issues of both centralized currencies being untrustworthy for storing wealth in the long run, and gold being too inconvenient to deal with. Those are ultimately the reasons for me to hold bitcoin for the long run.

Patatas

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Providing AI/ChatGpt Services - PM!

lol That sounds great! Will those tables make sense only in the bear market? The generic terms and the store of value can be put in the same line. The store of value heavily fluctuates and can be used as a metric to make logical decisions.

BuyBuyBitcoin

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Get Maximalist or Get Wrecked

Quote from: squatter on December 14, 2018, 02:21:25 PM

I also hesitate to call altcoin security "moderate." Many coins are highly insecure and prone to 51% attacks.

We did hesitate on that one. It's to balance out the "mega new protocol" that is more secure than bitcoin (if it ever exists or ACTUALLY works) whenever that shows up.

We know someone is going to make that claim down the road and it's already clear we don't have anything that's been proven long term secure like bitcoin. Shitcoins are mostly shit though, agreed.

BuyBuyBitcoin

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Get Maximalist or Get Wrecked

Quote from: mu_enrico on December 14, 2018, 01:28:07 PM

"offline use" or similar. The major drawback of bitcoin is too reliant on the internet. While bitcoin/crypto might flourish in many years to come, at the moment, many places still don't have a stable internet connection (or no connection at all).
People need time to treat bitcoin as (or more) valuable as gold or cash since these assets have hundred years of history in human civilization.

And

Quote from: mk4 on December 14, 2018, 04:59:52 AM

Agree. Bitcoin is just mostly for decently tech-savvy millennials(for now, at least), and some boomers in the tech industry here and there(not including people who just leave their funds on Coinbase). I'm really surprised that not enough people use bitcoin for overseas transfers though like you said. Where I'm at, the fees are probably 10% or something I think? Like what the hell. I'd heavily prefer the 1-2%(I think) fees from converting bitcoin <-> fiat on local exchanges.

If you think about how many "things" have been created in "crypto" and we still dont have a tap to tap payment method...... even if the confirmation takes awhile, it's surprising nobody has launched an EASY wallet for people to transfer small amounts.

If wallets aren't on someone's list as an obvious solution people NEED, especially during a bear market, we're in trouble whenever bitcoin becomes "interesting" to the masses again.

1Referee

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Quote from: mu_enrico on December 14, 2018, 01:28:07 PM

I also propose one more variable to discuss, that is "offline use" or similar. The major drawback of bitcoin is too reliant on the internet.

It's definitely an interesting subject. I know of people transacting with physical Bitcoins which requires no internet connection at all. It's basically transacting in private keys, but it seems to work very well if you are dealing with a trusted party. I have bought unfunded Denarium Bitcoins and funded them myself to use at whatever point in time may there not be an internet connection available.

The best thing is that you can move value without anyone else noticing anything, because the funds don't move on-chain. I expect this field to bloom even more in the forthcoming years, all to make sure the trust aspect becomes less of an obstacle with usefulness intact.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

I wonder if we can really consider fungibility to be "high" for Bitcoin. At the protocol level, yes, but surely not all outputs are treated as interchangeable by humans. Blockchain/taint analysis is a booming industry now, and the US government is now publicly identifying Bitcoin addresses that are linked to sanctioned individuals. Freshly mined coins carry a price premium due to their lack of history. I'm sure this trend will continue.

I also hesitate to call altcoin security "moderate." Many coins are highly insecure and prone to 51% attacks.

Topic: Bitcoin vs. Gold, Fiat and Altcoins (Updated: Traits of Money) - page 3. (Read 1012 times)