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Topic: Bitcoin vs. the Banks - page 3. (Read 7523 times)

sr. member
Activity: 343
Merit: 250
July 10, 2012, 09:15:41 AM
#49
Absolutely any exchange can create money out of thin air. Get over the ability to create money out of thin air and start focusing on the trust behind it. If I create $100 out of thin air but promise you to pay you $100 tomorrow and you are positive through a track record of me being paid $100 everyweek at the same time for 20 years that you will get that $100, isn't that enough to make the transaction? What more do you need in a functioning society?

If I lend you 100 bucks, and you promise to pay me 100 bucks tomorrow and memorialize that promise with a Matthew M. Wright note that's printed on fancy paper with your picture on it and maybe some hard-to-replicate holograms, have you really created "money"? Well, maybe. I could certainly try and find someone to trade for it and those pieces of paper might earn enough trust to be widely accepted as a medium of exchange. And maybe you could even start issuing more in Wright bucks than you've collected in U.S. dollars. That's not necessarily a problem assuming you don't go overboard to the point that people lose trust in your money. The problem with banks' ability to create money in our current system is that, due to implicit and explicit government guarantees (like FDIC insurance), there's no market check on the ability to create ever-increasing quantities of debt-money.  If we had a truly free market for money, I believe commodity money (and I'm including Bitcoin in this category) would be the dominant form of money although there would still be some "monetary" use of debt instruments.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1003
July 10, 2012, 08:58:29 AM
#48

Exact, I have a problem about the world around me ruled by a banking system that is literally responsible of the environmental destruction by overstimulating consumption.

+1 Exactly!! 
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
July 10, 2012, 08:56:46 AM
#47
Absolutely any exchange can create money out of thin air. Get over the ability to create money out of thin air and start focusing on the trust behind it. If I create $100 out of thin air but promise you to pay you $100 tomorrow and you are positive through a track record of me being paid $100 everyweek at the same time for 20 years that you will get that $100, isn't that enough to make the transaction? What more do you need in a functioning society?

If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with:

1) MtGox codes
2) Ripple technology
3) The world around you

Exact, I have a problem about the world around me ruled by a banking system that is literally responsible of the environmental destruction by overstimulating consumption.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1003
July 10, 2012, 08:52:02 AM
#46
Banking institutions tend to turn up in any advanced economic system... Bitcoin will be no different, and there most likely will be banks, MtGox is the closest thing to a bank we have right now. They issue their own currency (MtGox Redemption Vouchers) and offer various services and allow you to exchange and transfer funds.

Bitcoin doesn't allow anybody to create money out of thin air like the actual banking system. That's the main fundamental difference.

Absolutely any exchange can create money out of thin air. Get over the ability to create money out of thin air and start focusing on the trust behind it. If I create $100 out of thin air but promise you to pay you $100 tomorrow and you are positive through a track record of me being paid $100 everyweek at the same time for 20 years that you will get that $100, isn't that enough to make the transaction? What more do you need in a functioning society?

If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with:

1) MtGox codes
2) Ripple technology
3) The world around you

MtGox can create BTC out of thin air? Can you explain this?

Money should not be created out of liabilities, which is what our banking system does now. It gets you to sign a loan, and then monetizes your debt and treats it as a deposit (I think most people know this now).

Only banks can do this. MtGox or the IBB can't write up a BTC loan to you, and then magically create the BTC based on your loan contract. The main difference being BTC HAVE to be created with actual work (EARNED), while fiat is created with the push of a button.

This is why banks and our monetary system SUCK. They are getting something (your hard-EARNED dollars, for their NON-earned ones).


Think of it like this, Matthew. You spent months putting together your magazine, and I'm sure it was a lot of work. When you finally got it done, would you trade them all with me if I printed you out some occult pictures on my computer for you? It would only take me a few seconds to print a pentagram and an all seeing eye, while it took you months of work to make your mag. Not a fair trade, is it? Nor is it when banks do it.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
July 10, 2012, 08:45:02 AM
#45
Banking institutions tend to turn up in any advanced economic system... Bitcoin will be no different, and there most likely will be banks, MtGox is the closest thing to a bank we have right now. They issue their own currency (MtGox Redemption Vouchers) and offer various services and allow you to exchange and transfer funds.

Bitcoin doesn't allow anybody to create money out of thin air like the actual banking system. That's the main fundamental difference.

Absolutely any exchange can create money out of thin air. Get over the ability to create money out of thin air and start focusing on the trust behind it. If I create $100 out of thin air but promise you to pay you $100 tomorrow and you are positive through a track record of me being paid $100 everyweek at the same time for 20 years that you will get that $100, isn't that enough to make the transaction? What more do you need in a functioning society?

If you have a problem with that, you have a problem with:

1) MtGox codes
2) Ripple technology
3) The world around you
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
July 10, 2012, 08:37:59 AM
#44
Banking institutions tend to turn up in any advanced economic system... Bitcoin will be no different, and there most likely will be banks, MtGox is the closest thing to a bank we have right now. They issue their own currency (MtGox Redemption Vouchers) and offer various services and allow you to exchange and transfer funds.

Bitcoin doesn't allow anybody to create money out of thin air like the actual banking system. That's the main fundamental difference.
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
July 10, 2012, 02:06:54 AM
#43
Banking institutions tend to turn up in any advanced economic system... Bitcoin will be no different, and there most likely will be banks, MtGox is the closest thing to a bank we have right now. They issue their own currency (MtGox Redemption Vouchers) and offer various services and allow you to exchange and transfer funds.
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
July 09, 2012, 10:51:52 PM
#42
Don't hate banks. Understand them. Only then will you have an informed opinion about why they should not exist.
legendary
Activity: 1764
Merit: 1002
July 09, 2012, 09:44:33 PM
#41
Government and banking industries are walking hand by hand. But observe this, government is changing while who owns the banks are not so now guess who is telling who what to do.

i agree with this.  financiers/banksters have captured the politicians.  they end up leaving politics and getting their corner offices on Wall St.
legendary
Activity: 1120
Merit: 1003
July 09, 2012, 08:53:02 PM
#40
I don't have a bank account. Not one. Can I still hate banks, Matthew?
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
July 09, 2012, 08:47:13 PM
#39
Government and banking industries are walking hand by hand. But observe this, government is changing while who owns the banks are not so now guess who is telling who what to do.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
July 09, 2012, 08:44:25 PM
#38
Understand this no mater what you have been told in school. All war since at least 200 years ago is only for 1 thing. Who is gonna own the printing machine of the country. Just make research on banking history and you will understand much more the actual society.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
July 09, 2012, 08:40:09 PM
#37
Governments is not in control of any currency, I don't know where you took this idea. Government is only regulating this stupid system. "banks" as the actual concept is a real problem because all money in circulation represent a dept and can be taken away from you (as society) at their all mighty willing at any moment. How a monetary system that only depend on its credit can be a good concept for the people. This concept is only good for the banks itself and that's all.
Oh? Would you care to speculate where all the frozen wikileaks funds are? And how they got frozen in the first place? That sounds a lot like governmental control, doesn't it?
I didn't know that Bank of America and MasterCard who where the first to threaten wikileaks was own by the government...
Show me where they turn them away before the goverment got involved and poked its smelly nose into places where it didn't belong.

Do you seriously think they would turn away a revenue generating customer solely on ideological pretenses? Hell no.

I don't know the particulars here, but I do know BofA was the target of one of their bigger leaks, so it may not have been solely ideological pretenses.
rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
July 09, 2012, 08:36:04 PM
#36
Governments is not in control of any currency, I don't know where you took this idea. Government is only regulating this stupid system. "banks" as the actual concept is a real problem because all money in circulation represent a dept and can be taken away from you (as society) at their all mighty willing at any moment. How a monetary system that only depend on its credit can be a good concept for the people. This concept is only good for the banks itself and that's all.
Oh? Would you care to speculate where all the frozen wikileaks funds are? And how they got frozen in the first place? That sounds a lot like governmental control, doesn't it?
I didn't know that Bank of America and MasterCard who where the first to threaten wikileaks was own by the government...
Show me where they turn them away before the goverment got involved and poked its smelly nose into places where it didn't belong.

Do you seriously think they would turn away a revenue generating customer solely on ideological pretenses? Hell no.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
July 09, 2012, 08:30:44 PM
#35
Governments is not in control of any currency, I don't know where you took this idea. Government is only regulating this stupid system. "banks" as the actual concept is a real problem because all money in circulation represent a dept and can be taken away from you (as society) at their all mighty willing at any moment. How a monetary system that only depend on its credit can be a good concept for the people. This concept is only good for the banks itself and that's all.
Oh? Would you care to speculate where all the frozen wikileaks funds are? And how they got frozen in the first place? That sounds a lot like governmental control, doesn't it?

I didn't know that Bank of America and MasterCard who where the first to threaten wikileaks was own by the government...

rjk
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
1ngldh
July 09, 2012, 08:27:10 PM
#34
Governments is not in control of any currency, I don't know where you took this idea. Government is only regulating this stupid system. "banks" as the actual concept is a real problem because all money in circulation represent a dept and can be taken away from you (as society) at their all mighty willing at any moment. How a monetary system that only depend on its credit can be a good concept for the people. This concept is only good for the banks itself and that's all.
Oh? Would you care to speculate where all the frozen wikileaks funds are? And how they got frozen in the first place? That sounds a lot like governmental control, doesn't it?
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
July 09, 2012, 08:12:12 PM
#33

But again, it's not "banks" as a concept which are the problem. The problem is central government control of money - the problems that arise from modern banks are but symptoms of this government involvement in money itself. In a truly free market, where government does not get to monopolize money production, banks would serve customers well, and make wise financial decisions, or go out of business.

Governments is not in control of any currency, I don't know where you took this idea. Government is only regulating this stupid system. "banks" as the actual concept is a real problem because all money in circulation represent a dept and can be taken away from you (as society) at their all mighty willing at any moment. How a monetary system that only depend on its credit can be a good concept for the people. This concept is only good for the banks itself and that's all.
legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1023
Democracy is the original 51% attack
July 09, 2012, 06:55:54 PM
#32

You want to bark about the existence of banks? Yell at yourself for still using one.


I agree with this statement completely.

But again, it's not "banks" as a concept which are the problem. The problem is central government control of money - the problems that arise from modern banks are but symptoms of this government involvement in money itself. In a truly free market, where government does not get to monopolize money production, banks would serve customers well, and make wise financial decisions, or go out of business.
legendary
Activity: 1221
Merit: 1025
e-ducat.fr
July 06, 2012, 08:07:24 AM
#31
You can laugh if you want but tell me where I am wrong

Bitcoin allows me to be my own bank.
A bitcoin bank does not take this freedom away from me.
A bitcoin bank is one click away from its nearest competitor because bitcoin lowers the barrier to entry or exit.

That's how bitcoin banks (like paytunia) are different from traditional banks.
It's not that we don't like traditional banks (ahem): we don't like the way they operate.

You are not wrong but you are missing half of the picture.
hero member
Activity: 588
Merit: 500
Hero VIP ultra official trusted super staff puppet
July 05, 2012, 05:01:55 PM
#30
If you don't hate the nature of banks, you sure will when capital controls come into play.

Just posting this here, so I can dig it back up when this starts to occur for a nice "remember when I said..." post. I simply don't trust banks, at all. Nice people work for companies and organizations that are reprehensible all the time. My complaint isn't with them, more that the bank exists in its current form and is a parasite in the financial system.

I'd diversify and prepare if I were you.

Well spoken and exactly the same way I feel.
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