Bitcoin was never meant to be a hedge against a Global Pandemic

Bezobraznike

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Quote from: Arkann on April 03, 2020, 11:57:47 AM

Quote from: criza on March 31, 2020, 08:21:03 AM

I thought at first that Bitcoin wouls strive more in these kinds of crisis because, people would likely turn more on using it than fiats that are vurnerable in spreading the virus. As the physical markets closed down, so is the standing of Bitcoin. Should have expected it when the price decreased as the virus spreads even more.

But, these days prove to be a good sign for the future of Bitcoin because the price is now stable in a $6,000+ value. Hoping this would contine till the next month up until the halving.

I think that first of all we should look at the technical characteristics of Bitcoin and the benefits it brings to society and the economy. First of all, if Bitcoin will be used as a means of payment and will be recognized as a digital asset, then its price will definitely increase due to demand and will become more stable than it is today. And the fact that Bitcoin has a certain amount will enable users and owners of Bitcoin to be confident in their future, since Bitcoin is not subject to inflation and this enables people to preserve the value of all their assets and savings. The fact is that any crisis in the world that is provoked by various irritants in any case affects the economy and the value of the national fiat currency, and Bitcoin in this situation can significantly affect the circumstances in which most people today are.

Arkann I totally agree with you, everything you wrote is truth. With Bitcoin nobody can decide to make infinite Bitcoin supply, like
some governments are doing now. We would have better economy, more transparent economy, and all of us will contribute to that
in some way, not just group of people!
I don't think about the price of Bitcoin, it's moving all the time, I think about the future of Bitcoin and I believe that others will
recognize what is Bitcoin capable of doing.

Arkann

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Quote from: criza on March 31, 2020, 08:21:03 AM

I thought at first that Bitcoin wouls strive more in these kinds of crisis because, people would likely turn more on using it than fiats that are vurnerable in spreading the virus. As the physical markets closed down, so is the standing of Bitcoin. Should have expected it when the price decreased as the virus spreads even more.

But, these days prove to be a good sign for the future of Bitcoin because the price is now stable in a $6,000+ value. Hoping this would contine till the next month up until the halving.

I think that first of all we should look at the technical characteristics of Bitcoin and the benefits it brings to society and the economy. First of all, if Bitcoin will be used as a means of payment and will be recognized as a digital asset, then its price will definitely increase due to demand and will become more stable than it is today. And the fact that Bitcoin has a certain amount will enable users and owners of Bitcoin to be confident in their future, since Bitcoin is not subject to inflation and this enables people to preserve the value of all their assets and savings. The fact is that any crisis in the world that is provoked by various irritants in any case affects the economy and the value of the national fiat currency, and Bitcoin in this situation can significantly affect the circumstances in which most people today are.

criza

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I thought at first that Bitcoin wouls strive more in these kinds of crisis because, people would likely turn more on using it than fiats that are vurnerable in spreading the virus. As the physical markets closed down, so is the standing of Bitcoin. Should have expected it when the price decreased as the virus spreads even more.

But, these days prove to be a good sign for the future of Bitcoin because the price is now stable in a $6,000+ value. Hoping this would contine till the next month up until the halving.

LeGaulois

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Quote from: ololajulo on March 28, 2020, 04:22:02 PM

I have been disappointed also, I was thinking after a while in the situation of isolation and reduced used of fiat for period over 3 months, digital coin will be engaged but some decided to get back to fiat from cryptocurrency. I saw different news on countries proceeding to production of their own stable coin but were all rumor. There are more exposure on cryptocurrency with this crisis and it might lead to more adoption after the crisis is over.

This isn't rumors, there are several news articles about it, central banks statistics, reports, etc. Central banks are working for months on their own digital currencies (since 2018 well before COVID-19 exist). why would they start to accept a currency stateless than they don't control
We would need a major crisis like in 1929 to see ''perhaps" Bitcoin adopted. The human isn't ready to accept cryptocurrencies, mentalities toward money and how the system work need to change first.

- 70% of central banks exploring Central Bank Digital Currencies https://www.ledgerinsights.com/bis-70-percent-central-bank-digital-currency-cbdc/

- Explainer: Central bank digital currencies - Moving towards reality? https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cenbank-digital-currencies-explainer/explainer-central-bank-digital-currencies-moving-towards-reality-idUSKBN1ZM2JH

- Discussion Paper Central Bank Digital Currency: Opportunities, challenges and design
https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/paper/2020/central-bank-digital-currency-opportunities-challenges-and-design.pdf?la=en&hash=DFAD18646A77C00772AF1C5B18E63E71F68E4593

Reid

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Yeah, but the financial industry will need to heal first.
This would is getting deeper and deeper and even government officials are being forced to let the employees work just for the economy to sustain everything which is not a good look for me.

I'd rather see them alive the next month rather than forcing it just so the money could keep on coming.
People are the ones who will make it and without them then why would you want to make the economy better?
Let them be safe first so they will still have humans to govern.

ololajulo

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I have been disappointed also, I was thinking after a while in the situation of isolation and reduced used of fiat for period over 3 months, digital coin will be engaged but some decided to get back to fiat from cryptocurrency. I saw different news on countries proceeding to production of their own stable coin but were all rumor. There are more exposure on cryptocurrency with this crisis and it might lead to more adoption after the crisis is over.

Golftech

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Quote from: verita1 on March 28, 2020, 03:01:11 AM

Quote from: soxxx on March 17, 2020, 01:00:01 AM

Bitcoin will continue on its way toward what it is meant to achieve.

That is totally correct! We have struggled a lot and continue to do so to make Bitcoin accepted by more people around the world. The Coronavirus issue is a delicate one and once science finds the cure for the virus we will return to normal and restore the economy that Covid19 will undoubtedly affect.

The influenced of Corona makes more people to drive away from this industry, seeing that the market is falling while this pandemic virus is pulling the economy of each countries that being penetrated.
Though the chance of having those investors to go back and bring decent amount of investment are still possible once the cure for this virus is already being found. For now everything is still depends from how traders and investors will keep the Barrier.

okala

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Bitcoin has proving that it can be hedge against pandemic! It might not be created for that but by some of the things that we have used bitcoin to achieve it can be a really hedge. I prefer to hold bitcoin than any other assets during this pandemic.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: verita1 on March 28, 2020, 03:01:11 AM

Quote from: soxxx on March 17, 2020, 01:00:01 AM

Bitcoin will continue on its way toward what it is meant to achieve.

That is totally correct! We have struggled a lot and continue to do so to make Bitcoin accepted by more people around the world. The Coronavirus issue is a delicate one and once science finds the cure for the virus we will return to normal and restore the economy that Covid19 will undoubtedly affect.

adoption is not only the one that bitcoin wants to achieve but many things also like improving its features , improving its value , and many more but you are right . before bitcoin already struggled and face many hard problems or obstacles but bitcoin survived it all and not unfortunately bitcoin is again facing another battle . lets think what we have done on the past to help bitcoin and we shall apply it also on here . bitcoin was never meant for something that isnt stated on its white paper but people are sometimes expanding thier imagination and think bitcoin can do everything

verita1

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Quote from: soxxx on March 17, 2020, 01:00:01 AM

Bitcoin will continue on its way toward what it is meant to achieve.

That is totally correct! We have struggled a lot and continue to do so to make Bitcoin accepted by more people around the world. The Coronavirus issue is a delicate one and once science finds the cure for the virus we will return to normal and restore the economy that Covid19 will undoubtedly affect.

FanEagle

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Bitcoin was meant top hedge against bad days, pandemic is one of them. However, this is a lot different than anything else. Normally when there is a bubble burst like 2008 we can count on bitcoin because that is something specific to a problem financial world has, for example 2008 was real estate and mortgage crisis, why would bitcoin be affected by a mortgage crisis? It has nothing to do with mortgage anyway.

Certainly, we got created after that so we don't know how we would reacted, but 2008 and today are vastly different. Right now, there is something global and not local to USA, even 2008 affected places like Greece or Italy and Spain but this is GLOBAL, so I can sort of understand why bitcoin was affected. People realized their mistake though and we are high again so we can still call it a hedge if we want.

fabiorem

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Quote from: conhela on March 27, 2020, 04:25:29 PM

Exactly, and yet, my boss supports bitcoin heavily and has a lot of his savings in Bitcoin, when the price dropped he was so upset he even said "quit your jobs and sell your cryptos, it's all a scam", I couldn't believe it! He later come to his senses and realized that indeed, other stores of value were also dropping low which I guess calmed him down, but the look on his face really made me think he got it all wrong at that point.

Maybe not super related but just something that came to mind after reading your comment.

Just because he supports it, does not mean he will not acknowledge the manipulation which happens in this market, where 1% of the users controls 99% of the supply, and most of those who came later wants to gamble with it.

Supporting bitcoin does not mean you cant criticize it, be it in a technological level, or on a market/speculative level. Only the hodlers cult thinks otherwise, and wants you to keep repeating "hodl hodl" like a brainlet retard, holding a empty bag while the market plunges to sub-1000s levels.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: fabiorem on March 27, 2020, 06:36:49 AM

Gold is not a hedge anymore because it was submitted to derivatives speculation. You can store gold as much as you want, next financial crisis will make its price drops as anything else.
Bitcoin was meant to be different. Unfortunatelly, not anymore. We are all on the same board with the fiat system. Any global recession will bring everything down, including bitcoin.

many smart people have been saying that for years already, you just weren't listening. Wink

tyler winklevoss was 100% correct when he said this:

Quote

Bitcoin is not a hedge to pandemics, it is a hedge to fiat regimes. A sudden, negative demand shock in the global economy’ will affect every asset, including gold, in the short term.

https://twitter.com/tylerwinklevoss/status/1239255301171314689

gold and bitcoin should both dump in a global recession. that's just common sense. the #1 rule during recessions has always been cash is king. that won't change until people lose faith in reserve currencies like the USD. that's what tyler means by "it is a hedge to fiat regimes".

what do you think will happen if the USA government totally defaults and tries to reset their currency? do you think people will start to question fiat currencies and exit to gold? bitcoin? other commodities with fundamental or intrinsic value? i think so.

conhela

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Quote from: el kaka22 on March 18, 2020, 03:58:15 AM

I guess not but it was also not supporting it neither was it. Bitcoin and gold is usually seen as store of value. What does that mean? When all else falls these things have a limited supply so price of gold and bitcoin should either stay still or go up because dollars and stocks and many other things go down and they are less valuable so when they are less valuable these limited supply commodities should be going up but they are not.

So in theory, bitcoin was a hedge against a global pandemic, not really directly because it is not a medicine after all but it was created with the idea that when all else fails bitcoin should stay, just like gold does, however this time around even gold couldn't handle it so this is just a way different scenario than whatever we have seen in history.

Exactly, and yet, my boss supports bitcoin heavily and has a lot of his savings in Bitcoin, when the price dropped he was so upset he even said "quit your jobs and sell your cryptos, it's all a scam", I couldn't believe it! He later come to his senses and realized that indeed, other stores of value were also dropping low which I guess calmed him down, but the look on his face really made me think he got it all wrong at that point.

Maybe not super related but just something that came to mind after reading your comment.

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Quote from: sunsilk on March 17, 2020, 03:09:07 AM

Quote from: soxxx on March 17, 2020, 01:00:01 AM

Once when the fear of the Global Pandemic absolves, Bitcoin will continue on its way toward what it is meant to achieve.

It is what we're waiting for. Whoever has the patience on these times, will reap later on. We can't deny that the global pandemic that we're dealing with is somehow correlated with bitcoin's correction.

Then we cannot call it a correction if it is connected with it.
It's a dump.

Basic needs is being hoard and people will need cash. But I bet banks also loved this kind of event.
People cannot pay their credit cards and they have been using it a lot.
It might take like 2 months before all of this subside or maybe more, so fees will soar for paying late.

Another option is using their savings so all fiat will be going back to the central bank.
Then there is bitcoin. Because of not much option to pay thru it we sell.
I don't think we are feeling it yet by now. But there might be a larger percentage that it could go down more after all of this.

Janation

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Despite the price not directly affected by the pandemic, people might've panic sell at the dump that happened.

As the days went by, we regain the price and that doesn't really mean it is a hedge against the pandemic that is happening and will happen in the future. The thing about the PlusToken might be the reason for the big fall this month since we did see the price of Bitcoin increasing as CoVid - 19 is still an epidemic. Time will tell which is which.

gentlemand

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 24, 2020, 07:29:40 AM

I believe the bigger the crisis, the better for Bitcoin. After bank-runs, bankruptcies, legacy financial markets closures, the honey badger don't care. Hedge well, and HODL.

Maybe a few months or years down the line. Even then that's debatable. But I would prefer the same number of months or years of smooth running instead.

What Bitcoin still needs more than anything is more education. People tend not to look to the new and unproven when everything is going tits up. This isn't a blip or a shock, millions are looking at full on ruin.

fabiorem

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Quote from: davis196 on March 24, 2020, 08:16:21 AM

Quote from: soxxx on March 17, 2020, 01:00:01 AM

I believe in a normal Financial Crisis, Bitcoin would have fared better, but we are dealing with something that is being treated as much larger, which is a global pandemic. In 2008 people didn't hoard groceries, hoard supplies, get locked inside of their houses, have their livelihood shut down etc. This is not just a financial crisis, this is something different. There is real fear among many people that things will continue to get much worse and dangerous for a very long period of time. Bitcoin was never meant to be a hedge against a global pandemic. Gold is suffering the same fate as well, Gold is not a hedge against a Global Pandemic either. Once when the fear of the Global Pandemic absolves, Bitcoin will continue on its way toward what it is meant to achieve.

Gold is a hedge against a global recession,not against global pandemic.We all get that.There's no need for you to explain it.
Can we please stop with the whining about Bitcoin not being a hedge/safe heaven in falling economy?
It's been several days and the Bitcoin price is just fine at around 6,4K USD(it's even going close to 6,7K USD right now,but this might be temporary).There is no panic selling,no "nosedive" price fall.Whining about bearish market,price drops and market crashes is pointless and doesn't add anything to the discussion.

The global pandemic/hysteria is causing a global recession, what is so hard to understand?
Gold is not a hedge anymore because it was submitted to derivatives speculation. You can store gold as much as you want, next financial crisis will make its price drops as anything else.
Bitcoin was meant to be different. Unfortunatelly, not anymore. We are all on the same board with the fiat system. Any global recession will bring everything down, including bitcoin.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 24, 2020, 07:29:40 AM

I believe the bigger the crisis, the better for Bitcoin. After bank-runs, bankruptcies, legacy financial markets closures, the honey badger don't care. Hedge well, and HODL.

It depends on the type of crisis. In a purely economic crisis, pretty much everything falls in price against fiat money, as BTC (and even gold) already showed in the recent crash. It's only in a currency crisis, where society needs to exit the prevailing currency all at once, where the opposite will happen.

I do expect that will happen someday but I don't think that day is here.

iv4n

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on March 24, 2020, 07:29:40 AM

Quote from: soxxx on March 17, 2020, 01:00:01 AM

I believe in a normal Financial Crisis, Bitcoin would have fared better, but we are dealing with something that is being treated as much larger, which is a global pandemic. In 2008 people didn't hoard groceries, hoard supplies, get locked inside of their houses, have their livelihood shut down etc. This is not just a financial crisis, this is something different. There is real fear among many people that things will continue to get much worse and dangerous for a very long period of time. Bitcoin was never meant to be a hedge against a global pandemic. Gold is suffering the same fate as well, Gold is not a hedge against a Global Pandemic either. Once when the fear of the Global Pandemic absolves, Bitcoin will continue on its way toward what it is meant to achieve.

I believe the bigger the crisis, the better for Bitcoin. After bank-runs, bankruptcies, legacy financial markets closures, the honey badger don't care. Hedge well, and HODL.

I think the same, every crisis will lead people to crypto. It's pointless to discuss this crisis, manipulations, control imposing, simply said this it's not fair! It's not fair for 70%, or more, world population. Most people don't have a choice really. Here is where blockchain gets in, it offers alternative, more fair system, where information is in chain and can't be changed or manipulated with. Every man, or woman, disappointed in current system will join crypto.

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