Bitcoin Welfare System - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

oleganza

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Software design and user experience.

Quote from: SilverVigilante on July 15, 2013, 01:36:40 PM

In other words, what is p2p welfare?

If you are asking about voluntary welfare (vs. forced welfare), it is called insurance and/or charity. There is nothing new. You setup your own rules on how you distribute income and those who like them and like how you do your job, will give you money.

"Welfare" without violence is nothing different from any social activity. It has special name only because there is coercion which must be hidden under promise of "well being for human beings".

In voluntary community (e.g. in anonymous networks where kicking ass is impossible), such words as "welfare", "social security", "government", "law" lose any original meaning and purpose. You just have agreements (contracts), reputation, risks, demand and supply of services. Even "for-profit" and "non-profit" distinction is meaningless if you don't have taxes to pay.

Anon136

legendary

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a better way to correct the problems that welfare is supposedly intended to correct is for society at large to recognize that a person who is literally about to die of starvation through no fault of his own has a better claim on the food in is proximity than the person who grew it assuming the person who grew it is not in a similar predicament.

this would force grocery stores and restaurants to provide some form of local starvation safety net, probably in the form of a soup kitchen, inorder for them to be able to apprehend shop lifters with out fear of litigation. the cost of these soup kitchens would then be built into the prices at the grocery store. all without invoking the violence of the state.

replace a few words to apply the same argument to shelter, water and MAYBE some cheaper forms of antibiotics

Itcher

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Yea, that's the problem with libertarians.

They can't except any kind of walfare which lies beyond working or begging ... a little share of the wealth of the society should be everyones right, no matter, how usefull he or she is in senses of economy. But libertarias just see "violence" and "force" and so on, they don't see the miserable and factual deeply unfree state of someone having to beg for his own survival living inside an absurd wealth economy. So, this is it. I hate controll and I hate it to go to any institution of the state, but I am not with liberatarian. ++

Sorry, I will maybe tomorrow post a suggestion about bitcoin welfare economy ... maybe

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: FUEPA on July 15, 2013, 05:04:19 PM

You are assuming welfare funding has to be by force. If churches collect and spend voluntarily, I would still call this welfare. And as a libertarian, this is OK.

I am not assuming anything he used the word "STATE". Giving donation to a church who uses that funds to give meals to the homeless for example doesn't involve the state. I wouldn't call it welfare I would call it charity but that wasn't the point, read the post I responded to again and try to fit your tortured definition to it.

FUEPA

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Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on July 15, 2013, 04:57:11 PM

Quote from: AliceWonder on July 15, 2013, 01:53:38 PM

I'm libertarian but I'm not against welfare. I think the current system in my country is broken but I'm not against a system where the state helps those who genuinely need assistance. That assistance though needs to come with a plan for those who are able to work to actually get what they need (education, job training, whatever) to start working.

Sorry there is nothing libertarian about the confiscation and redistribution of private property by the state under the threat of violence.

Don't take it the wrong way but if you can't realize the obvious logical fallacy then you are merely "libretarian" in name only. Because it is the "cool, edgy, nonconformist" shade of Republican.

You are assuming welfare funding has to be by force. If churches collect and spend voluntarily, I would still call this welfare. And as a libertarian, this is OK. Same can be said about "Foreign Aid", we all assume this is the government spending the people's money against their wishes. People from one country helping those of another voluntarily is still foreign aid.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: AliceWonder on July 15, 2013, 01:53:38 PM

I'm libertarian but I'm not against welfare. I think the current system in my country is broken but I'm not against a system where the state helps those who genuinely need assistance. That assistance though needs to come with a plan for those who are able to work to actually get what they need (education, job training, whatever) to start working.

Sorry there is nothing libertarian about the confiscation and redistribution of private property by the state under the threat of violence.

Don't take it the wrong way but if you can't realize the obvious logical fallacy then you are merely "libretarian" in name only. Because it is the "cool, edgy, nonconformist" shade of Republican.

vqp

newbie

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Quote from: SilverVigilante on July 15, 2013, 01:36:40 PM

In fractal form, individuals who know others who need help could directly provide aid to that individual to get back on their feet. These fractals would usually start between family members and close friends, and represents a more efficient way of spreading capital to those "in need" than the current third party arbitrage system of welfare in which monumental resources are taken off the top.

^this

worldtreasurefinders

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Quote from: Melbustus on July 15, 2013, 02:00:55 PM

What you're talking about is philanthropy, not welfare. The distinction being the ability of the giver to *willingly* give to the cause of his/her choice.

I think bitcoin charities are a great idea, and I'd love to see bitcoiners use their money to help people. But let's not call it "welfare".

This +1. Any "welfare" should be freely and voluntarily given, not taken and distributed by force.

franky1

legendary

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and every greedy bugger will proclaim they are dirt poor. welfare scammers are already rampant in most countries, imagine the extent in the pseudonymous crowd.

i think those that have the internet have some form of income coming in, thus a welfare campaign is not actually required for the bitcoin crowd. because bitcoin will never overtake a government, it will only work along side it.

the only possible time a welfare system for bitcoin would be required is if a GENUINE non governed island was created.

that said i am all for philanthropy and charity. but welfare is not something the community should concentrate on

Melbustus

legendary

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What you're talking about is philanthropy, not welfare. The distinction being the ability of the giver to *willingly* give to the cause of his/her choice.

I think bitcoin charities are a great idea, and I'd love to see bitcoiners use their money to help people. But let's not call it "welfare".

countryfree

legendary

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Your country may be your worst enemy

I believe it's much to early in the development of bitcoin to think about such a system, but, well, I'm totally against it. Bitcoin has not been created for this. Better ask the social security (if it can survive, which I doubt) to pay benefits in bitcoins.

AliceWonder

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Quote from: SilverVigilante on July 15, 2013, 01:36:40 PM

Hey everyone,

I was pondering. What do you think a Bitcoin welfare system would look like? Bitcoiners are pigeonholed as anarchists and libertarians and thus against welfare

Hold on there,

I'm libertarian but I'm not against welfare. I think the current system in my country is broken but I'm not against a system where the state helps those who genuinely need assistance. That assistance though needs to come with a plan for those who are able to work to actually get what they need (education, job training, whatever) to start working.

Luckybit

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Quote from: SilverVigilante on July 15, 2013, 01:36:40 PM

Hey everyone,

I was pondering. What do you think a Bitcoin welfare system would look like? Bitcoiners are pigeonholed as anarchists and libertarians and thus against welfare, but I don't think "welfare" and the "state" necessarily must be conjoined. In other words, what is p2p welfare?

I pondered this here: https://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com/?p=1851

But thought a discussion would be great.

I had heard by Hearn that one day there will a little plugin where we can donate to websites we like (towards translating them, etc.). I wonder if this can be directed at individuals...

In fractal form, individuals who know others who need help could directly provide aid to that individual to get back on their feet. These fractals would usually start between family members and close friends, and represents a more efficient way of spreading capital to those "in need" than the current third party arbitrage system of welfare in which monumental resources are taken off the top.

It should be called basic income, not welfare.

SilverVigilante

sr. member

Activity: 361

Merit: 250

Hey everyone,

I was pondering. What do you think a Bitcoin welfare system would look like? Bitcoiners are pigeonholed as anarchists and libertarians and thus against welfare, but I don't think "welfare" and the "state" necessarily must be conjoined. In other words, what is p2p welfare?

I pondered this here: https://www.goldsilverbitcoin.com/?p=1851

But thought a discussion would be great.

I had heard by Hearn that one day there will a little plugin where we can donate to websites we like (towards translating them, etc.). I wonder if this can be directed at individuals...

In fractal form, individuals who know others who need help could directly provide aid to that individual to get back on their feet. These fractals would usually start between family members and close friends, and represents a more efficient way of spreading capital to those "in need" than the current third party arbitrage system of welfare in which monumental resources are taken off the top.

Topic: Bitcoin Welfare System - page 4. (Read 5309 times)