http://gavintech.blogspot.com.br/2012/05/neutralizing-51-attack.html
The bitcoin network can defeat an attack that would cost the government millions with potentially a few dozen hours of coding, either patching the existing system or starting a new one.
Topic: Bitcoin WILL die. What is the best alternative? (Read 2211 times)
Yay. Another thread that killed (will kill) Bitcoin 3290483rd time.
Dudes just relax it's quite immune to 51% attacks (Unless you're too smart to find a way to do %51 attack more efficient).
Dudes just relax it's quite immune to 51% attacks (Unless you're too smart to find a way to do %51 attack more efficient).
Actually an anti-bitcoin entity could perform a 51% attack without buying too much equipment. If I were a government or other such entity and looking to perform a 51% attack I would look into opening up a bitcoin mining pool. They could just payout higher than average and miners would slowly begin moving over to that pool. If you are making y bitcoin per xxx hashrate and I start a pool offering y+20% bitcoin per xxx hashrate, there is no doubt people would start moving over.
With all the cloud-hashing schemes and other scams out there, most people wouldn't even question how is possible for such high payments. Others would suspect something, but most would not care as long as the payments kept flowing in.
So at roughly 144 blocks per day * 25 BTC reward * $300 = $1.08 million per day currently mined. So they offer extra 20% would only cost them ~$200,000 a day. Actually it would be quite a bit less since it would take time to build up a loyal following of miners and they would only need 51%. So only toward the end of the operation would they be paying out in excess of $100,000 a day, They could probably start the operation with just a few thousand a day as people first started to move over.
So the question would become how long until they could convince enough people to move over. If only 30-45 days, I think they could pull it off for around $2-3 million. Heck this is low enough amount where even a large company or high net-worth individual might try it on their own... Thoughts?
As people begin to migrate over, the community will see that this pool is gaining almost 51% of the hash rate. Then a shitstorm will ensue and that pool will lose those miners. Just look at what happened when Ghash.io almost had 50% of the mining power. They lost a lot of miners and the miners went to other pools to keep any one pool from getting 51%. The anti-bitcoin entity would have to get its own miners and mine by itself to get 51%. Also, if such an attack succeeded and discredited Bitcoin, then all of those Bitcoin they mined are worthless and tons of money was just wasted.With all the cloud-hashing schemes and other scams out there, most people wouldn't even question how is possible for such high payments. Others would suspect something, but most would not care as long as the payments kept flowing in.
So at roughly 144 blocks per day * 25 BTC reward * $300 = $1.08 million per day currently mined. So they offer extra 20% would only cost them ~$200,000 a day. Actually it would be quite a bit less since it would take time to build up a loyal following of miners and they would only need 51%. So only toward the end of the operation would they be paying out in excess of $100,000 a day, They could probably start the operation with just a few thousand a day as people first started to move over.
So the question would become how long until they could convince enough people to move over. If only 30-45 days, I think they could pull it off for around $2-3 million. Heck this is low enough amount where even a large company or high net-worth individual might try it on their own... Thoughts?
It is likely that they wouldn't succeed so hey, the government or whoever just made a lot of money that they can now use and maybe instead of attacking Bitcoin, they can adopt it and use it.
51% is not some magical number that as soon as someone gets 51% of the hash rate, they suddenly have full control over the blockchain. It doesn't work like that. What 51% means is that the miner has a majority of the hash rate, which means they have a higher probability of finding over half of the blocks. In reality, the entity would need 80, 90% or higher in order to successfully pull off such an attack. In the network's current state, that would be prohibitively expensive.
Yes, as I pointed out people would catch on of course. Did Ghash.io offer a 20% premium over other pools at that time?
My question was, would the 20% premium over other pools cause most people to not care and keep mining at the higher paying pool? If not 20% how about 25%, 50%. At some point I think greed would outweigh the concern for the network.
As far as the 51%, they could just as well get the 60% or 80% whatever would need. My main argument was to counter everyone thinking you would need to purchase a bunch of hardware and operate it to pull this off. I was simply suggesting an alternative where a few million dollars could be used against the community by bribing the miners over to a rogue pool.
Edit: I see after researching Ghash.io did indeed offer a premium at first. But they later removed it. So the questions still stands: Did the miners leave because of concern for the network or due to the removal of the promotional bonus? I am sure they lost some of each group, but I think the majority was due to the loss of the premium.
I don't think that Bitcoin will die anytime soon, but in the (very unlikely) event that it loses adoption and does die, I think that LTC would be a good contender to become the biggest cryptocurrency - it has risen pretty well over the last year or two, to only have a small(ish) drop recently. Another contender would be DOGE - it is holding its value pretty well at the moment (even though each coin isn't worth much), and there is no limit to the amount of coins produced, which could help it do well (not sure why, just a weird theory).
Biggest value ? It's Bitcoin , most used by people on the world , Bitcoin ! most used by websites that sells goods ,services etc.. that's Bitcoin too . Alternative coins are called alternative because they are copies of Bitcoin and not because you can use them instead of BTC . shitcoins won't repalce bitcoin anytime
The cryptocurrensy community seems to ignore the inevitable threat of a 51% attack. Once the government and major banks see that Bitcoin is impeding on their infrastructure they will come together and execute a 51% attack. IT WILL HAPPEN, and the amount of money it takes for them to execute the attack is peanuts.
My question is, what cryptocurrensy has the necessary code to make it insusceptible to the 51% attack? LTC? NXTCOIN?
Let's Discus.. This is important.
My question is, what cryptocurrensy has the necessary code to make it insusceptible to the 51% attack? LTC? NXTCOIN?
Let's Discus.. This is important.
which altcoin are you suggesting ( promoting ) ?
i don't see any altcoin that has the possibility of replacing bitcoin so far...
The hashrate of bitcoin is 360,540,831.57 GH/s s othey would need 180ph/s that is a LOT of hashrate. The longer it takes someone to get the gear for that the higher it will be and governments are slow when it comes to gathering money and okaying for use, especially on something like bitcoin and who would build all the machines?
Good point! Props to you for discerning that a 51% attack by a nefarious new-entrant would be a lot harder to pull off than the hash numbers suggest. The key question is, how would this bad-actor get ahold of the ASICs?
People do like to gossip...imagine the buzz that would circulate if an ASIC manufacturer went into manufacturing overdrive to produce a whole new slew of ASICs without any improvement in their hash rate. Lots of people in the Bitcoin-miner world would wonder - in digital writing, and in public - what was up. The wonderings would turn into something else if said manufacturer turned away all buyers of 'em with a message, "they're all spoken for." At the very minimum, the pools would make serious inquiries.
Could the ASICs be manufactured secretly? An interesting question...
Bitcoin is most popular crypto in the world. No any other crypto can be so popular in nearest time - let say 5 - 10 years 
I totally agree with you. Bitcoin is here to stay for long term and hopefully achieve mainstream adoption in the near future. However, I do think that most alt coins would die with the exception of Litecoin and Monero, because of lack of development (just my opinion)
Bitcoin is most popular crypto in the world. No any other crypto can be so popular in nearest time - let say 5 - 10 years
citicoin?
Bitcoin is dying because the general public has just lost interest in it.
It is not just the price that has collapsed it is the excitement in the idea of cryptocurrencies.
There are a few graphs from google trends here: https://veggiecoin.wordpress.com/why-voin-is-a-better-investment-than-bitcoin.
The future of cryptocurrencies (if they have a future) may lie in niche coins: cannabis coins, solar coins and so forth. The bitcoin protocol is not suited to a single monolithic coin.
Bitcoin is a $4bn business + cryptos. Also this number is increasing every day. I can ensure you that bitcoin will not die. It is not just the price that has collapsed it is the excitement in the idea of cryptocurrencies.
There are a few graphs from google trends here: https://veggiecoin.wordpress.com/why-voin-is-a-better-investment-than-bitcoin.
The future of cryptocurrencies (if they have a future) may lie in niche coins: cannabis coins, solar coins and so forth. The bitcoin protocol is not suited to a single monolithic coin.
Bitcoin is dying because the general public has just lost interest in it.
It is not just the price that has collapsed it is the excitement in the idea of cryptocurrencies.
There are a few graphs from google trends here: https://veggiecoin.wordpress.com/why-voin-is-a-better-investment-than-bitcoin.
The future of cryptocurrencies (if they have a future) may lie in niche coins: cannabis coins, solar coins and so forth. The bitcoin protocol is not suited to a single monolithic coin.
It is not just the price that has collapsed it is the excitement in the idea of cryptocurrencies.
There are a few graphs from google trends here: https://veggiecoin.wordpress.com/why-voin-is-a-better-investment-than-bitcoin.
The future of cryptocurrencies (if they have a future) may lie in niche coins: cannabis coins, solar coins and so forth. The bitcoin protocol is not suited to a single monolithic coin.
In reality, the entity would need 80, 90% or higher in order to successfully pull off such an attack. In the network's current state, that would be prohibitively expensive.
A flash jump in a fiat currency could enable the (more than less) trivial purchase of a substantial quantity of coins. These coins, alongside others acquired via (perhaps, "illegal") seizure and other, governmental mechanisms, could enable a governmental body to maintain instability in the exchange rate of the coin relative to the given fiat currency. This volatility could motivate a wider userbase of the given fiat currency to forsake any break therewith that said coin might, otherwise, facilitate.
In reality, the entity would need 80, 90% or higher in order to successfully pull off such an attack. In the network's current state, that would be prohibitively expensive.
A flash jump in a fiat currency could enable the (more than less) trivial purchase of a substantial quantity of coins. These coins, alongside others acquired via (perhaps, "illegal") seizure and other, governmental mechanisms, could enable a governmental body to maintain instability in the exchange rate of the coin relative to the given fiat currency. This volatility could motivate a wider userbase of the given fiat currency to forsake any break therewith that said coin might, otherwise, facilitate.
The cryptocurrensy community seems to ignore the inevitable threat of a 51% attack. Once the government and major banks see that Bitcoin is impeding on their infrastructure they will come together and execute a 51% attack. IT WILL HAPPEN, and the amount of money it takes for them to execute the attack is peanuts.
My question is, what cryptocurrensy has the necessary code to make it insusceptible to the 51% attack? LTC? NXTCOIN?
Let's Discus.. This is important.
ShadowCash check it out! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.9180 My question is, what cryptocurrensy has the necessary code to make it insusceptible to the 51% attack? LTC? NXTCOIN?
Let's Discus.. This is important.
Actually an anti-bitcoin entity could perform a 51% attack without buying too much equipment. If I were a government or other such entity and looking to perform a 51% attack I would look into opening up a bitcoin mining pool. They could just payout higher than average and miners would slowly begin moving over to that pool. If you are making y bitcoin per xxx hashrate and I start a pool offering y+20% bitcoin per xxx hashrate, there is no doubt people would start moving over.
With all the cloud-hashing schemes and other scams out there, most people wouldn't even question how is possible for such high payments. Others would suspect something, but most would not care as long as the payments kept flowing in.
So at roughly 144 blocks per day * 25 BTC reward * $300 = $1.08 million per day currently mined. So they offer extra 20% would only cost them ~$200,000 a day. Actually it would be quite a bit less since it would take time to build up a loyal following of miners and they would only need 51%. So only toward the end of the operation would they be paying out in excess of $100,000 a day, They could probably start the operation with just a few thousand a day as people first started to move over.
So the question would become how long until they could convince enough people to move over. If only 30-45 days, I think they could pull it off for around $2-3 million. Heck this is low enough amount where even a large company or high net-worth individual might try it on their own... Thoughts?
As people begin to migrate over, the community will see that this pool is gaining almost 51% of the hash rate. Then a shitstorm will ensue and that pool will lose those miners. Just look at what happened when Ghash.io almost had 50% of the mining power. They lost a lot of miners and the miners went to other pools to keep any one pool from getting 51%. The anti-bitcoin entity would have to get its own miners and mine by itself to get 51%. Also, if such an attack succeeded and discredited Bitcoin, then all of those Bitcoin they mined are worthless and tons of money was just wasted.With all the cloud-hashing schemes and other scams out there, most people wouldn't even question how is possible for such high payments. Others would suspect something, but most would not care as long as the payments kept flowing in.
So at roughly 144 blocks per day * 25 BTC reward * $300 = $1.08 million per day currently mined. So they offer extra 20% would only cost them ~$200,000 a day. Actually it would be quite a bit less since it would take time to build up a loyal following of miners and they would only need 51%. So only toward the end of the operation would they be paying out in excess of $100,000 a day, They could probably start the operation with just a few thousand a day as people first started to move over.
So the question would become how long until they could convince enough people to move over. If only 30-45 days, I think they could pull it off for around $2-3 million. Heck this is low enough amount where even a large company or high net-worth individual might try it on their own... Thoughts?
It is likely that they wouldn't succeed so hey, the government or whoever just made a lot of money that they can now use and maybe instead of attacking Bitcoin, they can adopt it and use it.
51% is not some magical number that as soon as someone gets 51% of the hash rate, they suddenly have full control over the blockchain. It doesn't work like that. What 51% means is that the miner has a majority of the hash rate, which means they have a higher probability of finding over half of the blocks. In reality, the entity would need 80, 90% or higher in order to successfully pull off such an attack. In the network's current state, that would be prohibitively expensive.
Actually an anti-bitcoin entity could perform a 51% attack without buying too much equipment. If I were a government or other such entity and looking to perform a 51% attack I would look into opening up a bitcoin mining pool. They could just payout higher than average and miners would slowly begin moving over to that pool. If you are making y bitcoin per xxx hashrate and I start a pool offering y+20% bitcoin per xxx hashrate, there is no doubt people would start moving over.
With all the cloud-hashing schemes and other scams out there, most people wouldn't even question how is possible for such high payments. Others would suspect something, but most would not care as long as the payments kept flowing in.
So at roughly 144 blocks per day * 25 BTC reward * $300 = $1.08 million per day currently mined. So they offer extra 20% would only cost them ~$200,000 a day. Actually it would be quite a bit less since it would take time to build up a loyal following of miners and they would only need 51%. So only toward the end of the operation would they be paying out in excess of $100,000 a day, They could probably start the operation with just a few thousand a day as people first started to move over.
So the question would become how long until they could convince enough people to move over. If only 30-45 days, I think they could pull it off for around $2-3 million. Heck this is low enough amount where even a large company or high net-worth individual might try it on their own... Thoughts?
With all the cloud-hashing schemes and other scams out there, most people wouldn't even question how is possible for such high payments. Others would suspect something, but most would not care as long as the payments kept flowing in.
So at roughly 144 blocks per day * 25 BTC reward * $300 = $1.08 million per day currently mined. So they offer extra 20% would only cost them ~$200,000 a day. Actually it would be quite a bit less since it would take time to build up a loyal following of miners and they would only need 51%. So only toward the end of the operation would they be paying out in excess of $100,000 a day, They could probably start the operation with just a few thousand a day as people first started to move over.
So the question would become how long until they could convince enough people to move over. If only 30-45 days, I think they could pull it off for around $2-3 million. Heck this is low enough amount where even a large company or high net-worth individual might try it on their own... Thoughts?
That Will never gonna hapend !!
Nobody knows the answer to this question. If and when Bitcoin "dies", it will be due to a well respected and widely adopted alternative. For all we know, this alternative could be right under our noses, but it could also not yet exist.
The cryptocurrensy community seems to ignore the inevitable threat of a 51% attack. Once the government and major banks see that Bitcoin is impeding on their infrastructure they will come together and execute a 51% attack. IT WILL HAPPEN, and the amount of money it takes for them to execute the attack is peanuts.
My question is, what cryptocurrensy has the necessary code to make it insusceptible to the 51% attack? LTC? NXTCOIN?
Let's Discus.. This is important.
My question is, what cryptocurrensy has the necessary code to make it insusceptible to the 51% attack? LTC? NXTCOIN?
Let's Discus.. This is important.
Litecoin of course
but in any case, take a look:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncPyMUfNyVM
)Bitcoin is still robust after its introduction 6 years ago, but has had some recent technical hiccups with Galvin fork and tx/spam issues.
Highly improbable that bitcoin would be replaced, but if it were, the standby, on-deck crypto is Litecoin. Coblee, the litecoin dev, has addressed some of bitcoin's shortcomings.
I think most folks underestimate the speculative value that this brings to LTC. It could literally jump to hundreds of dollars in value overnight. But it's a longshot to be sure.
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