OP,
Just yesterday you were printing up flyers and calling yourself a Bitcoin consultant. Today, you've done a complete 180 and are now saying Bitcoin will fail. Unless you can point to some fundamental change in Bitcoin over the last 24 hours or so, it sounds like you're just venting your personal failed endeavors, not Bitcoin.
Topic: Bitcoin will fail - page 3. (Read 8132 times)
You see, my actual goal is find investors to invest in a farm and produce worthy tangible items. So I would need a miner to invest bitcoin in me at a rate that is not worthless, but about 6-8$/btc
Your logic is what prevents bitcoin from becoming what it needs to be. And it wasnt easy to mine the bitcoins, as soon as you learned of it, the logical race was scale up computing power. Electricity from the wall into millions of dollars. in a world in which millions to hundreds of millions = highest echelon. If that is not lazy, idk what is..
Grant the Fed does this already, but the federal reserve played a major role the creation of the economy around us. If everyone of us had to front end the labor vs wealth, which is what they did, you get what we currently have. debt payed through slavery.
How hard do you want me to work in order to buy a farms worth of produce sustainably, consistently. Do you really just expect me to find a corporation, hand one of you miners hundreds of millions of dollars for your 'precious' coins to invest in a sustainable project. Especially if i am the government and i am force to just kick you off your property in order to cultivate it. And if they dont do that, who will.
Dark days lay ahead with your misguided attitude. Thank you also for attempting to cast me out of context. Not that you do not make a fair point in the general mockery attitude that prevails far beyond just you, but the honest conversations with good intentions, hard, loyal work, is something that will pervade you. The potential beauty of bitcoin is that if forces these intelligent conversations to occur with the right and capable minds at work. Bitcoin has made wealth physically intangible, but that brings moral duty to make it sound money.
You see, my actual goal is find investors to invest in a farm and produce worthy tangible items. So I would need a miner to invest bitcoin in me at a rate that is not worthless, but about 6-8$/btc
Where the fuck is cypherdoc when you need him? lol
I think many of the things you say aren't happening in the bitcoin economy are happening. Bitcoin is becoming huge with the investor set. It does have great utility and intrinsic value. I love that I can buy something with confidence from an untrusted source on the other side of the planet. And with negligible fees.
To say that bitcoin has no real value is going to be an uphill argument when speaking to people at these forums who have made tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I save some money every time I buy with bitcoin.
No value? How come I can buy gold bars and real estate with no value?
To say that bitcoin has no real value is going to be an uphill argument when speaking to people at these forums who have made tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I save some money every time I buy with bitcoin.
No value? How come I can buy gold bars and real estate with no value?
because the fed props up the value of houses. Gold.. well i do not understand golds place in this world yet. We might figure that one out in a few years.
I will never argue with the market itself, as I beleive the market is always right, yet historically it is often wrong..(other global markets)
Statements like these are sort of a red flag to me. If you make statements like this, there isn't much point in discussing topic with you in a thread (or any other), because you are not making logical points. If 1+1=3 while 2+1=3 then it would be worthwhile for me to try to convince you of something.
(With the legitimate exception of mistake made, or a typo....)
I hear you and I a bit confused. I have been trading for years. If in 2007 the markets new what was going to happen 2 years later, it would not have traded up 14,500. If you want to make money, follow the trend. If you want to make a point, argue with the market.
Clearly though the market was wrong. Yet its always right.
You for sure cannot put a kenysian economist in a room with a austrian economist and then expect them to agree. I have my philisophical beliefs of what I think bitcoin is ment to be used as, and then there is the reality outside my window.. or on my comp screen. I can not say I trust bitcoin to hold its value.
You contradict yourself in the same sentence.
If you aren't able to see that, then obviously you are not able to make any logical conclusions, thus discussing with you is completely useless.
I am sorry I see what i said that contradictory. I would like to replace, convential market philosophy, is that the market is never wrong.... yet historically it is often wrong. IE if you began to short the market in 2004, techically you would be right based on reasons XYZ that are now very apparent today, yet, if you did not argue with the market, you could have made a killing between 2004-2007, only when the technicals indicated things have rolled over as volatility increased. My conclusion, I do not trust the price of bitcoin to stay elevated, yet if the market technicals say its going higher, I will be long bitcoin.
I think many of the things you say aren't happening in the bitcoin economy are happening. Bitcoin is becoming huge with the investor set. It does have great utility and intrinsic value. I love that I can buy something with confidence from an untrusted source on the other side of the planet. And with negligible fees.
To say that bitcoin has no real value is going to be an uphill argument when speaking to people at these forums who have made tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I save some money every time I buy with bitcoin.
No value? How come I can buy gold bars and real estate with no value?
To say that bitcoin has no real value is going to be an uphill argument when speaking to people at these forums who have made tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. I save some money every time I buy with bitcoin.
No value? How come I can buy gold bars and real estate with no value?
I will never argue with the market itself, as I beleive the market is always right, yet historically it is often wrong..(other global markets)
Statements like these are sort of a red flag to me. If you make statements like this, there isn't much point in discussing topic with you in a thread (or any other), because you are not making logical points. If 1+1=3 while 2+1=3 then it would be worthwhile for me to try to convince you of something.
(With the legitimate exception of mistake made, or a typo....)
I hear you and I a bit confused. I have been trading for years. If in 2007 the markets new what was going to happen 2 years later, it would not have traded up 14,500. If you want to make money, follow the trend. If you want to make a point, argue with the market.
Clearly though the market was wrong. Yet its always right.
You for sure cannot put a kenysian economist in a room with a austrian economist and then expect them to agree. I have my philisophical beliefs of what I think bitcoin is ment to be used as, and then there is the reality outside my window.. or on my comp screen. I can not say I trust bitcoin to hold its value.
You contradict yourself in the same sentence.
If you aren't able to see that, then obviously you are not able to make any logical conclusions, thus discussing with you is completely useless.
I will never argue with the market itself, as I beleive the market is always right, yet historically it is often wrong..(other global markets)
Statements like these are sort of a red flag to me. If you make statements like this, there isn't much point in discussing topic with you in a thread (or any other), because you are not making logical points. If 1+1=3 while 2+1=3 then it would be worthwhile for me to try to convince you of something.
(With the legitimate exception of mistake made, or a typo....)
I hear you and I a bit confused. I have been trading for years. If in 2007 the markets new what was going to happen 2 years later, it would not have traded up 14,500. If you want to make money, follow the trend. If you want to make a point, argue with the market.
Clearly though the market was wrong. Yet its always right.
You for sure cannot put a kenysian economist in a room with a austrian economist and then expect them to agree. I have my philisophical beliefs of what I think bitcoin is ment to be used as, and then there is the reality outside my window.. or on my comp screen. I can not say I trust bitcoin to hold its value.
Good thing you made this important discovery that we all missed. Crap, well... Go ahead and send me all your worthless coins and I will see to it that they are disposed of. 
I am not a miner. The speculators(me) have a potential role to create an inflated value by buying bitcoins at an exchange as I think they might be worth something one day. But based on what I see already, they will not be once people realize there is no where to spend them.
If all you care about is the gold 2.0, understand the dollar wins! Similar to money, it is a tool, not a store of value.
I guess you missed out the half a dozen routes you could have taken to not require bit coin investors.
Tip:
Find a cheap farm shop buy veg, sell veg...
Firstly compared to just speculatively buying coin direct from fiat, at let's say a high of $138. Buying just $90 of veg at wholesale price can be sold for profit to net you a whole bit coin.
Sell that bit coin for fiat. Get a return of over $130, after fee's. Rinse repeat, while you wait till next year to buy land, as its a bit late to buy land churn the soil, sow the seed to get a harvest complete by this summer.
So do some wholesale-retail until winter so that your ready for buying land, to start growing next year, then next year you will have the service running, but becoming more self reliant on stock as oppose to buying in... which means less cashing out
I will never argue with the market itself, as I beleive the market is always right, yet historically it is often wrong..(other global markets)
Statements like these are sort of a red flag to me. If you make statements like this, there isn't much point in discussing topic with you in a thread (or any other), because you are not making logical points. If 1+1=3 while 2+1=3 then it would be worthwhile for me to try to convince you of something.
(With the legitimate exception of a mistake made, or a typo....)
Self-contradict much?
If you want a currency that cannot be debased, satoshi needs to be treated like 1 dollar. And this really drives the point that miners are central banks whos duty it is to inject capital into the markets. Otherwise its irrational beavertail trading. No big company will want to touch, and nor should it be allowed to obtain a bitcoin unless a miner agrees the corporation deserves it. IE treats its employees/customers fairly, fair value for it products, actually produces benefical services(goodbye weapons manufacturers/war)
If that ever happened I would trust bitcoin as a stable, strong, safe currency, aside from being a speculative casino with an unknown intrinsic value, as it is pegged to nothing.
Self-contradict much?
The goal is that, 1 satoshi needs to find its value that more or less represents 1 dollar. IE 1 BTC = 100,000,000$
in the beginning sweat equity is more or less slave labor, aside from fiat expenses agreed to be covered until farm becomes productive. I can then charge 5 satoshis for 1 pound of meat.
or 1 satoshi for a bundle of carrots.
I can hire labor for 1 satoshi an hour, as long as laborer harvests more than 40 satoshi's worth or produce/hour, I can employ him, be profitable, laborer can then send wages home as the wage itself was earned because productivity of the farm because of the bitcoin investment.
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Bitcoin are bought and sold at rational market rates, right now.
I disagree that these prices are rational market rates. I will never argue with the market itself, as I beleive the market is always right, yet historically it is often wrong..(other global markets)
These virtual currency(s) have a lot of untested waters to sail through.
I've been reading your other posts and wondering when you would post something like this. You are using rationalizations based on fallacy to attempt to guide logic your direction. It won't work here. Better posters than you have tried and failed.
It's ok OP. Daddy's got ya. It's all just a dream now back to sleep. Bitcoin can't hurt you anymore.
So much that's posted here is crap now that I just can't stop myself from making fun of it. I think I need a forum 12 Step Plan or something.
It's ok OP. Daddy's got ya. It's all just a dream now back to sleep. Bitcoin can't hurt you anymore.
So much that's posted here is crap now that I just can't stop myself from making fun of it. I think I need a forum 12 Step Plan or something.
.........Otherwise, the irrational exuberence the market will place on bitcoin over the next few years/decades will lead to "our own collective end."
"Will" place? So you don't think the price is irrational now after all. I agree with you. The 21 million bitcoins can never again cost $6 each simply because of supply and demand (barring a network collapse). If you believe demand is never going higher than now and will, in fact drop, then you might have a case. But you haven't even tried to make that case.
if it were to drop in price because of market forces, it is because the market is seeking rational price discovery. Current price discovery and all future price discovery will be irrational until BTC finds its own purchasing power value completely without the dollar.
It remains a speculative casino, that may see a very large increase in fiat based wealth, but does nothing for a bitcoin at its core.
The goal is that, 1 satoshi needs to find its value that more or less represents 1 dollar. IE 1 BTC = 100,000,000$
in the beginning sweat equity is more or less slave labor, aside from fiat expenses agreed to be covered until farm becomes productive. I can then charge 5 satoshis for 1 pound of meat.
or 1 satoshi for a bundle of carrots.
I can hire labor for 1 satoshi an hour, as long as laborer harvests more than 40 satoshi's worth or produce/hour, I can employ him, be profitable, laborer can then send wages home as the wage itself was earned because productivity of the farm because of the bitcoin investment.
There's no need to reinvent the wheel. Bitcoin are bought and sold at rational market rates, right now.
.........Otherwise, the irrational exuberence the market will place on bitcoin over the next few years/decades will lead to "our own collective end."
"Will" place? So you don't think the price is irrational now after all. I agree with you. The 21 million bitcoins can never again cost $6 each simply because of supply and demand (barring a network collapse). If you believe demand is never going higher than now and will, in fact drop, then you might have a case. But you haven't even tried to make that case.
The goal is that, 1 satoshi needs to find its value that more or less represents 1 dollar. IE 1 BTC = 100,000,000$
in the beginning sweat equity is more or less slave labor, aside from fiat expenses agreed to be covered until farm becomes productive. I can then charge 5 satoshis for 1 pound of meat.
or 1 satoshi for a bundle of carrots.
I can hire labor for 1 satoshi an hour, as long as laborer harvests more than 40 satoshi's worth or produce/hour, I can employ him, be profitable, laborer can then send wages home as the wage itself was earned because productivity of the farm because of the bitcoin investment.
At current rates you could charge 0.04 BTC for 1 pound of meat. If current exchange rates doubled you could charge 0.08 BTC for 1 pound of meat. Maybe I´m stupid, but I don´t really see the need for your mentioned goal. But if you (and many other) would start selling goods for BTC, BTC itself would get value without the need to compare it FIAT.
Oh never said they will be successful.
They may be succesful to some various extents, but no hegemonic entity will be able to terminate Bitcoin.
Bitcoin will triumph. I think it will be around until it will be replaced, eventually, by a superior coin somewhere down the line.
You can't kill good ideas, and it's very tough to beat fantastic software that is distributed in nature.
Absolute worse case I can conceive as possible is that BTC is banned worldwide by every government. And even in this scenario, it will succeed and gain value, as a currency limited to only the blackmarket (drugs and laundering.)
They may be succesful to some various extents, but no hegemonic entity will be able to terminate Bitcoin.
Bitcoin will triumph. I think it will be around until it will be replaced, eventually, by a superior coin somewhere down the line.
You can't kill good ideas, and it's very tough to beat fantastic software that is distributed in nature.
Absolute worse case I can conceive as possible is that BTC is banned worldwide by every government. And even in this scenario, it will succeed and gain value, as a currency limited to only the blackmarket (drugs and laundering.)
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