Bitcoin.com CEO Says Futures Will Drive Up Bitcoin Price

RyNinDaCleM

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Legen -wait for it- dary

Quote from: CornCube on December 10, 2017, 05:47:23 PM

Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on December 10, 2017, 04:18:32 PM

LOL, futures will get raped by pure Bitcoin markets. While they are closed for the night/weekend/giftmas... Bitcoin exchanges truck on, and when it moves 10 or 20% during that time, futures will open with gaps and those on the wrong side will be ruined with losses and possibly owing above their account values. This will be great

CME futures only closed for 60 minutes per day, except closed weekends.

Don't you think traders will close positions before the weekend or appropriately hedge across that gap every weekend?

Also don’t you think the margin requirements will be appropriately computed on the high history of volatility of BTC?

You seem to presume these folks can’t do math.

But maybe you’re correct, that the margin requirements for safety are too high for most to play. However, if margin is provided in BTC that would be less onerous, e.g. miners hedging.

http://cfe.cboe.com/cfe-products/xbt-cboe-bitcoin-futures/contract-specifications

This is the one that opened today. It has extended hours, but those sessions aren't available to everyone. Normal hours are 8:30am-3:15PM Monday-Friday.
It might be marginally safer than I first expected but then again, I'm pretty sure I heard they allow 20x. If that is the case, it is definitely too high for a lot of traders to handle, hence why places like BFX only has 2.5x. Still a lot can happen during the times they are closed and I wouldn't put it past those that can, gaming it from both sides. It'll still be interesting to see how things go until it matures.

batang_bitcoin

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Quote from: hubballi on December 10, 2017, 11:31:27 AM

Quote from: batang_bitcoin on December 10, 2017, 11:25:14 AM

You look to be the most active in making these such threads about bitcoin. I hope that futures will give bitcoin a very positive price movement since many are also worried about it since whales will do something to make the price go down which can be beneficial with their futures investment. But still everyone here is hoping to make a better investment with futures as well and it will give bitcoin a positive result.

But i think if once the bitcoin starts to trade in futures then fiat currency holders can also play in bitcoin and it will make the price move more high only. As you said most of them are worried that the whales will drive the price down and same sentiment they will take as positive for them and they will buy on each dip.

That's what I'm thinking, while they are with futures of course they'll do something to follow the bitcoin market. But if this futures will be driven down by another whales that wanted to take over bitcoin market and starts their very own market, we're all done but I doubt that this will happen since bitcoin has been with many challenges before and this futures is just a basic peanuts that will also add another value for it.

CornCube

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Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on December 10, 2017, 04:18:32 PM

LOL, futures will get raped by pure Bitcoin markets. While they are closed for the night/weekend/giftmas... Bitcoin exchanges truck on, and when it moves 10 or 20% during that time, futures will open with gaps and those on the wrong side will be ruined with losses and possibly owing above their account values. This will be great

CME futures only closed for 60 minutes per day, except closed weekends.

Don't you think traders will close positions before the weekend or appropriately hedge across that gap every weekend?

Also don’t you think the margin requirements will be appropriately computed on the high history of volatility of BTC?

You seem to presume these folks can’t do math.

But maybe you’re correct, that the margin requirements for safety are too high for most to play. However, if margin is provided in BTC that would be less onerous, e.g. miners hedging.

flynn

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Quote from: RyNinDaCleM on December 10, 2017, 04:18:32 PM

Quote from: yenimailb on December 10, 2017, 05:17:07 AM

Bitcoin.com CEO Says Futures Will Drive Up Bitcoin Price
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJAAMtqXc5I

LOL, futures will get raped by pure Bitcoin markets. While they are closed for the night/weekend/giftmas... Bitcoin exchanges truck on, and when it moves 10 or 20% during that time, futures will open with gaps and those on the wrong side will be ruined with losses and possibly owing above their account values. This will be great

This. Plus I am eager to see what Black-Scholes Formula gives with bitcoin's volatility

RyNinDaCleM

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Legen -wait for it- dary

Quote from: yenimailb on December 10, 2017, 05:17:07 AM

Bitcoin.com CEO Says Futures Will Drive Up Bitcoin Price
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJAAMtqXc5I

LOL, futures will get raped by pure Bitcoin markets. While they are closed for the night/weekend/giftmas... Bitcoin exchanges truck on, and when it moves 10 or 20% during that time, futures will open with gaps and those on the wrong side will be ruined with losses and possibly owing above their account values. This will be great

bitcoinman93

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They care just about bitcoin cash anyway...

CornCube

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Quote from: richardsNY on December 10, 2017, 03:39:22 PM

I don't believe that Roger Ver has converted the major part of his 'core coin' stash into his own crappy shitcoin. The only thing he did is dump his BCH's at peak levels, and bought back at significantly lower levels, ending up significantly increasing his BCH holdings. All in an attempt to alongside his fellow poisonous friends, be the few entities holding the far majority of the circulating BCH supply. It quite well explains how easily that market got bought up to +0.4 BTC levels, and then dumped down again. He is also desperately trying to convince noobs that his shitcoin is the real Bitcoin, but thus far without much success.

Rebuttal:

Quote from: CornCube on December 10, 2017, 02:49:45 PM

Okay then you were attacking Roger Ver in your comments, but in the following video he articulates a very compelling and simple reason why BCH is superior:

https://youtu.be/cJAAMtqXc5I?t=181

It’s a fact which I have stated many times. LN payer can’t send to everyone who has a BTC address. First the recipient must open+maintain a channel (which doesn’t scale well and will essentially end up as fractional reserve Mt. Box hubs). BCH payer can send to anyone who has an address and it has MUCH lower fees right now.

Pontificate about future scaling as much as you want (neither scale decentralized!) but here and now, Ver is factually correct.

Quote from: CornCube on December 10, 2017, 03:22:43 PM

P.S. given the potential gain for BTC from the current level is ~3X (or maybe 5X at an extreme to $100+k), the altcoins are likely to moon soon and gain on BTC, because most of them have 10+ X gains potential before the next crypto winter.

As for the extreme volatility of BCH, it’s likely because of all the n00bs who dump it for BTC because they want to donate their BTC to SegWit’s “pay to anymore” (but they don’t realize this yet like most sheep they will fall over the cliff together because they’re only aware of what they’ve been told which is to stay focused on what the other sheep are doing).

BCH spikes because the BTC mining difficulty resets too high (and won’t reset for at least 2 weeks or even longer as the hashrate leaves and block period slows down), then as BTC declines in price, it is more profit to mine BCH and this can lead to a spiral over a multi-week timeframe because the block periods on BTC can become much longer than 10 minutes if most of the hashrate moves over to BCH.

Quote from: bitcoinman93 on December 10, 2017, 04:01:45 PM

They care just about bitcoin cash anyway...

That’s not analysis. That is sheep behavior.

richardsNY

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I don't believe that Roger Ver has converted the major part of his 'core coin' stash into his own crappy shitcoin. The only thing he did is dump his BCH's at peak levels, and bought back at significantly lower levels, ending up significantly increasing his BCH holdings. All in an attempt to alongside his fellow poisonous friends, be the few entities holding the far majority of the circulating BCH supply. It quite well explains how easily that market got bought up to +0.4 BTC levels, and then dumped down again. He is also desperately trying to convince noobs that his shitcoin is the real Bitcoin, but thus far without much success.

NiceSoft12

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While it could drive the price up, do not forget that hedge funds in the billions could also short bitcoin with the click of a button. Remember that IPO's aren't always the greatest for a stock's price.

I think the future will continue to see high volatility.

CornCube

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Quote from: yenimailb on December 10, 2017, 05:17:07 AM

Bitcoin.com CEO Says Futures Will Drive Up Bitcoin Price
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJAAMtqXc5I

I’m impressed with Roger Ver’s answers to the illicit activity questions. Kudos.

As for his point about futures, he’s correct that in a non-manipulated market then futures increase utility and decrease volatility, but given that Bitcoin is a controlled by an oligarchy and the power of governments to crash the price by for example launching a ban on exchanges of non-compliant ICO-issued tokens, could enable the insiders to profit on short and long manipulations of the price.

Quote from: Kriptex on December 10, 2017, 11:19:50 AM

Hopefully it deos. Because some people say futures will affect the price extremely negatively.

Not immediately negative. Need some months for large (leveraged) positions to accumulate before the following manipulations can begin:

Quote from: CornCube on December 09, 2017, 06:27:12 PM

The 3rd one has the highest probability after we hit the $40k peak. But the bottom would be > $10k.

The last (4th) one [the Tether/Bitfinex collapse] may occur during the 3rd one, and may also include:

the Tether/Bitfinex collapse
a blood bath for non-compliant ICOs
SegWit theft wherein the blockchain “steals” $billions of BitcoinSegWit “pay to anyone” donations
skyrocketing transaction fees and excruciating slow confirmations on BTC

Quote from: NiceSoft12 on December 10, 2017, 02:26:58 PM

do not forget that hedge funds in the billions could also short bitcoin with the click of a button.

They need someone to take the opposite side of the trade. So this can’t occur until the futures market gain adoption.

Netnox

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That is my guess as well. Futures trade normally makes a commodity more bullish, although there are plenty of exceptions. And in case of Bitcoin, it gives it a sense of semi-legal status and makes the currency (or asset) more mainstream. Both CBOE and CME are well established exchanges. Traders will trust them, even if they don't have much trust in BTC.

NUFCrichard

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I may well be naive, but I also don't understand why or how the cash based futures market will move the bitcoin market.

They are basically betting on what will happen in the real Bitcoin market. Unless they then try to move the real market by buying or selling real Bitcoin, I don't see how they move the market.

It's like betting on a Football/Soccer game. I can bet $100 million on a poor team winning, but it doesn't make them winning any more likely. If I gave them money to win the game, or the other team money to lose, that would be different, but isn't the point of the bet/futures market.

jackhdt

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drive up price? how to push the price? only a single way is manipulating a large number of bitcoin. This turns him into a real whale, that is the worst thing.
bitcoin price affected by market supply and demand and no one can push them

tiggytomb

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Maybe it will, maybe it wont nobody knows but I think the price has a good bit further to go before it starts to drop a significant amount.

Denker

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Quote from: yenimailb on December 10, 2017, 05:17:07 AM

Bitcoin.com CEO Says Futures Will Drive Up Bitcoin Price
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJAAMtqXc5I

You're linking to a liar and fraudster here my friend!
This guy is responsbile for lots of trouble over the last 2 years in this community!
Because of him lots of people lost a lot of money.
If you didn't know this, well you know it now.
If you don't believe me, I advise you to do some proper research! Google is your friend if you know how to use it.

Fidemoga

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Why should futures have negative (or positive) effect on Bitcoin price? Apart from the positive influence of the fact that Bitcoin futures are offered at all, I see no connection between futures and price or am I wrong? But I fear, manipulative news and predictions from financial insitutes or so called experts will mount up.

Torque

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No one gives a shit what that idiot has to say about Bitcoin.

He created the contentious abomination that is BCash, so he can go choke on his shitcoin losses.

Proton2233

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I don't understand why people are discussing futures trading. It is a tool for the whales. I think that's actually a war of big whales eat the small ones. We enjoyed our usual exchanges and will to use them. I'm not sure that futures will change the situation on the market.

hubballi

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Quote from: batang_bitcoin on December 10, 2017, 11:25:14 AM

You look to be the most active in making these such threads about bitcoin. I hope that futures will give bitcoin a very positive price movement since many are also worried about it since whales will do something to make the price go down which can be beneficial with their futures investment. But still everyone here is hoping to make a better investment with futures as well and it will give bitcoin a positive result.

But i think if once the bitcoin starts to trade in futures then fiat currency holders can also play in bitcoin and it will make the price move more high only. As you said most of them are worried that the whales will drive the price down and same sentiment they will take as positive for them and they will buy on each dip.

batang_bitcoin

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Activity: 3080

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You look to be the most active in making these such threads about bitcoin. I hope that futures will give bitcoin a very positive price movement since many are also worried about it since whales will do something to make the price go down which can be beneficial with their futures investment. But still everyone here is hoping to make a better investment with futures as well and it will give bitcoin a positive result.

Topic: Bitcoin.com CEO Says Futures Will Drive Up Bitcoin Price (Read 722 times)