Topic: Bitcoiners kill Bitcoin, and governments are happy, boycott the CEXs - page 4. (Read 962 times)

I strongly dislike the whole "less convenient" argument which always comes up when DEXs are discussed. The only part of using a DEX which is less convenient is clicking the actual "buy" or "sell" button at the point you want to make a trade. Everything else is more convenient. It is more convenient to sign up. It is more convenient to not have hand over all your details. It is more convenient to not have to scan your documents and complete KYC. It is more convenient to not have to wait 5 days for approval. It is more convenient to not have to link a bank account, and then wait another 5 days for your payment to clear. It is more convenient to not get hit with ridiculous withdrawal fees. It is more convenient to not wait several hours or days for your withdrawal to be approved. It is more convenient to not have your identity stolen and end up with $100,000 of debt in your name from some criminal. It is more convenient to not lose your entire stash because the CEX you chose turned out to be a scam or went bankrupt.

Imagine for a second that CEXs never existed, and using DEXs was the default that everyone was used to. A new exchange comes along and says "We are different to all the others. It is difficult to sign up, you have zero privacy, you have to risk your identity being stolen, you have zero security, you have to hand over all your coins, you could lose everything at any time with no warning and no chance of getting back a single satoshi, we'll share all your data with third parties and report all your activities to your government, we'll have random delays and downtime, frozen accounts, locked coins, delayed withdrawals, be under maintenance, insider trade, and awful customer service, but for all that it's quick when you press buy!" Who in their right mind would use this exchange?

People think it is more convenient because they are conditioned to believe that by the very CEXs which survive on them believing that.

I have to agree with on this one about CEX's, in some countries where crypto are banned they make it easier to buy/sell their funds. To new investors it is easier to learn. But this doesn't translate to leaving your heavy funds on it. People that do that are either earning through some of features there or one way or the other. If we could get DEX making it easier to learn and having some future trading futures we could do well it that. But overall CEX'S are just cunning to have funds on

basically all of this still needs improvement which is better than before, because all the problems that have occurred in the past are always related, everyone accuses each other and feels himself innocent.
and the matter of bitcoiners killing bitcoins, that is a relative thing, don't beat the average of all bitcoiners who have deviated from the purpose of bitcoin being created, because I know that most of its users definitely want profit, definitely want to always achieve what they want after adopting bitcoin.
because basically bitcoin has become a good bridge for many people who are experiencing economic problems, so don't be confused, bitcoin will still be bitcoin.

I agree about the usefulness of the CEXs as well in times of need but let's not totally ignore DCEXs because this is where our true freedom is. We don't need to use KYC or whatsoever things that will show our true identity unlike these CEXs nowadays. That's right we need to push the use of DCEXs, especially after what happened with FTX and others. now is the time to prove to them that we don't need to be locked in by the government to use their totally controlled exchanges rather we have always our own options to trade on our own with or without their help. 

This thread is indeed a wake-up call to the real Bitcoin believers and not those that are in the sector to make instant profit. Thank you for reminding us that Bitcoin was mainly designed for P2P transactions and not through centralized platforms. It is also true that the advantages of using DEX greatly outweighs that of CEX. But there are still many problems that needs to be surmounted in order to promote the use of DEX. Centralized platforms are more popular than its opposite because these exchange companies spend money on advertisement that one can comfortably insinuate that they are one of the major creators of Bitcoin awareness in many countries. Most people became aware of the currency called Bitcoin because of these exchanges. I have never seen any decentralized platform advertising Bitcoin in my area but many exchanges carryout this task.

Just like fiat and Bitcoin, Centralized exchanges should be allowed to operate side by side with their decentralized counterpart. People should be allowed to freely choose the one they want to use because they have peculiar reasons for their choice. People using CEX should not be viewed as traitors or hypocrites because you might not know their intentions. Someone might have a financial emergency and these exchanges would be the best platform to convert Bitcoin to fiat. I am sure in the nearest future there would be better alternative to these exchanges and people would gladly dump their services.
        

The problem with DEX/P2P exchanges:

harder to use/far less convenient --> far less users --> far less revenue --> far less money for advertising --> little to no advertising --> little to no users

It's not surprising to see such kind users in this forum because they're don't understand anything and just read other users opinion (especially the one who get merit), they will repeat/re-write what that's user wrote.

I agree Bitcoiners kill Bitcoin and governments are happy, but I don't agree to boycott CEXs. It's true CEX is suck and we need to avoid at all cost, but let's everyone decide to use the exchange that they want to use. We can only give an explanation about it, but we can't control their activity. After a scammer use their KYC since the exchange has poor security and then there's a police knock their door, they will learn what is privacy and why we shouldn't use CEX.

Maybe we need a guide here that shows how to use this exchanges and also some funding for advertising etc. it is hard for a non cex exchange to compete if they don’t have the advertising.

That's definitely a cancer of Bitcoiners, even on this forum. People blaming governments and banks etc. Well, what do you expect these guys to do right? Bitcoin is challenging them so they either fight against it or try to join it (and this second option is how Bitcoiners become hypocrites). But the forum is full of complainers, sometimes in Bitcoin worse than altcoins.

I must say however that it is not easy to give up centralised services. For selling fine, it is good enough to find alternatives.

But for example gambling, which is my major use of Bitcoin, how do I find an alternative? And I keep my balance on casinos for a long time.

The same Bitcoiners, who are killing Bitcoin are the ones, who made a 60K price possible.
The Bitcoin/crypto world has been viewed as another form of "casino capitalism" since 2013. 99% of the people involved in the Bitcoin/crypto world are here only to put some fiat money into crypto and get more fiat money when they sell their crypto. Can you blame them for this?
They don't care about using CEXs or DEXs. Actually the centralized exchanges are more convenient than the DEXs. The people choose convenience over safety and privacy. Can you blame them for this?
This speculative behavior is the main reason why we have bull waves on the crypto markets. Without the speculative investments, the crypto winter will turn into a crypto ice age.

Back in school we had something in physics about "expansion" and we used to say that "the hole expands too" (basically the principle behind putting a jar of olives in warm water then opening the lid easily).

My point is that when it comes to bitcoin adoption there are different categories of people adopting bitcoin eg. true bitcoins looking for financial sovereignty and gamblers looking for quick profit. When adoption grows all categories grow not just one. And the "true bitcoiners" are the silent type while the gamblers are the most loud so when their numbers grow and see see the internet filled with their cries about price rise and falls it may look like everyone has become a profit hungry gambler.

So even if we see CEXs are growing in popularity and collapse like FTX, that doesn't necessarily mean anything has changed about bitcoin or bitcoiners.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently mostly because this last week I saw someone literary put a hit out on some people with their full address and information for 5 bitcoin. All on Twitter!

So if laws are bad, regulations are bad, etc. then what is the solution to things like this? How are we supposed to deal with criminals, terrorists, money launderers, etc. who are abusing the same privacy that we so much crave for their own illicit activities?

The issue is not to blame or try to direct individual thoughts to the collective in what we believe to be the right thing to do, Bitcoin has the potential to be a good alternative but the process to become independent in that it becomes essential is not easy.

That collective subsists in its mistakes and successes, the same ones that have existed for more than 12 years, during which time trust has been the bulwark of Bitcoin, so that all the bullshit around Bitcoin that exists doesn't really matter, what matters it is the individual ability to decide where to put our ideas, so if bitcoin is in that decision it is enough.

I believe "boycott" is too much of a demand. Centralized exchanges bring more efficiency to the market, and therefore a faster price discovery for Bitcoin. It's simply the truth. BUT we should not move far away from the path of encouraging the use of decentralized networks like BISQ, and asking for the return of face-to-face in LocalBitcoin-like services, or encourage it to be used more in BISQ. I believe we should develop standard safety guidelines for face-to-face trading.

Aren't a lot of Bitcoiners advocating for this for years and years already? Unfortunately, the fact is, people will continue to use CEXs as long as they remain a lot more convenient than using peer-to-peer no-KYC exchanges. It'll always be difficult to change people's minds through ideology — it'll need to be through better UX.

They simply cannot leave the convenience they perceive they receive by having their coins at exchanges, and if anything this is going to get worse, new generations are used to have everything easily accessible to them and anything that is slightly more difficult is simply disregarded as too complex, so when given the choice between using an exchange and keeping their coins in self-custody the majority will choose the former over the latter.

Satoshi Nakamoto designed Bitcoin as a peer-to-peer electronic cash and it does not need a third-party centralized service to handle trades. I quoted the Bitcoin White paper because people sounds like completely forgot about original idea and use case of Bitcoin.


If centralized exchanges collapse all (which I don't believe they will), Bitcoin will still be fine. Because Bitcoin is not CEX, Bitcoin is not DEX, Bitcoin is not altcoin or cryptocurrency. People want to assimilate Bitcoin and cryptocurrency but as a point of fact, they are not the same, but very different.

After Terra, Celcius, Voyager, Three Arrows Capital, FTX collapses, people are very fearful about CEX and they withdrawn a lot of bitcoins from CEX but they will deposit their bitcoins back in future. They want CEX and forget the advice "Not your keys, not your coins"

Since November, people withdrawn a lot from centralized exchanges and Daily Exchange Net Flows are very negative.
https://www.theblock.co/data/on-chain-metrics/flows/daily-net-exchange-flows

Will it be okay if you won't complain? So it won't be hypocrisy and do the right damn thing? Stay away entirely and use the decentralized system that is already the solution to avoid CEX.

I agree that most Bitcoiners are in it for the money since CEXs make it easier to turn your crypto into cash than other methods that avoid intermediaries.

What makes it hard to be entirely true for P2P is the trust between people because it's hard to do. It's just really hard to get to do the alternative.

It shows that you are still in the system if you do that hypocrisy.

It feels sad to admit that I am largely guilty of this. Although I am not keeping funds in any CEX today, nor do I have any CEX account right now, I admit that I have used a number of them in the past. I have learned my lessons already. And while I also do not use centralized sites that offer loans, liquidity, annual ROI, etc, I can't seem to strongly convince friends not to use any of them.

But I am proud to say that I do not worship anybody in the crypto industry. I always admire those who came before us, before any altcoin was born, before the birth of a crypto industry, Satoshi and a few more, but not one right now. I know that these crypto businessmen today like Sam and CZ don't really value Bitcoin as much as the money they could get.

people are boycotting CEX
(though not really much in grand scheme of things with under 0.01% a day*)

i looked at a few of the "bitcoin richlist" addresses of exchanges
looking at coin holdings since january

the top 3 categories
january 2022
[100,000 - 1,000,000)   793,314 BTC
[10,000 - 100,000)   2,262,241 BTC  
[1,000 - 10,000)   4,630,567 BTC  

december 2nd
[100,000 - 1,000,000)   672,354 BTC
[10,000 - 100,000)   2,072,651 BTC
[1,000 - 10,000)   5,177,623 BTC

december 18th
[100,000 - 1,000,000]   684,123 BTC
[10,000 - 100,000)   2,291,459 BTC
[1,000 - 10,000)   4,601,707 BTC

december 20th
[100,000 - 1,000,000)   670,307 BTC
[10,000 - 100,000)   2,303,302 BTC
[1,000 - 10,000)   4,593,773 BTC



TOTALTS
Jan:  7922628
dec 2nd: 7686122  (average 770 a day removed(jan-dec day avg))
dec 18th: 7577289 (average 6800 a day removed(dec day avg))
dec 20th: 7567382 (35 hours since 18th data grab)

9907 coins in 35 hours (average 6793 a day removed(dec day avg))

since november instead of a net migration output of under 800 coins a day. its now over 6700coins a day leaving exchange hoards

so some people are listening.

albeit
of 7.5m coins in top addresses its only *0.087% of coins moving out
compared to the lower 0.00972% in spring/summer

(disclaimer: using bitcoin richlists is not accurate method, but better than some. it shows a trend of more coins leaving large holder custodians than earlier this year)

Bitcoiners dont kill bitcoin, they are killing their own pockets. Bitcoin will survive anyways. It survived the largest exchange shutdown i.e. Mtgox in the past, and the ftx meltdown also had not much effect, (since it recovered back to 18k+$ twice but the american markets and fed's tightning policy isnt helping otherwise we would have pumped too far by now already).
Cexes are still having a lot higher volume compared to dexes. Average ppl wont leave cexes since they are just used to it (as they are with other social media platforms logging in with email and password). They think taking care of own private keys is more tough work than remembering a small password of the cex they are trading on.