Topic: Bitcoinica's Interest System - page 2. (Read 12481 times)
Has anyone successfully received any interest payments? I have had some BTC in there for about 2 days with nothing. Isn't is supposed to be live now or is the 16th the launch date?
"Our general design principle is that we always pay less interest to our customers than what we receive from them as position swaps."
It would be nice if the amount of interest paid out to customers equaled that which you received in position swaps. Or at least came close to it.
That might lead to smaller interest rate gap between the buy and sell positions.
It would be nice if the amount of interest paid out to customers equaled that which you received in position swaps. Or at least came close to it.
That might lead to smaller interest rate gap between the buy and sell positions.
im not getting any reply on a nslookup of that address...
website's down for me.... didnt last long...
Works fine for me. There have been DNS issues in the past, make sure your DNS is returning 50.56.4.62 for bitcoinica.com
website's down for me.... didnt last long...
12 cents are yours now, bears 
Our Interest Rates page shows the effective hourly swap points for BTC/USD positions. For example,
I hope this gets rid of the No Reserve problems. Will their be an API for that returns the hourly swap points?
What reasoning is there for a position swap?
I am sure this all makes alot of sense and is reasonable for you, but it smells like a tax on using bitcoinica with leverage.
What is the relationship between this position swap and the (58% hedged) info available on your site, if any at all?
Edit:
It is a tax in your own words:
"Our general design principle is that we always pay less interest to our customers than what we receive from them as position swaps."
You claim
"The general aim of our interest system is to encourage people to deposit their money with us so that we can provide more reserves for leveraged trading. Also, we want to design the first money market for the Bitcoin community. "
Indeed, it favours people deposit money and not do anything with it. And if one dares take on a position, he will get taxed with leverage * differential interest rate.
"They are subject to change every 30 minutes depending on actual demand and supply of money"
"That's 20.02% APY. This interest rate cap is subject to change."
So it can change every 30 minutes, and the cap in place is subject to change?
Thanks for the advice.
I am sure this all makes alot of sense and is reasonable for you, but it smells like a tax on using bitcoinica with leverage.
What is the relationship between this position swap and the (58% hedged) info available on your site, if any at all?
Edit:
It is a tax in your own words:
"Our general design principle is that we always pay less interest to our customers than what we receive from them as position swaps."
You claim
"The general aim of our interest system is to encourage people to deposit their money with us so that we can provide more reserves for leveraged trading. Also, we want to design the first money market for the Bitcoin community. "
Indeed, it favours people deposit money and not do anything with it. And if one dares take on a position, he will get taxed with leverage * differential interest rate.
"They are subject to change every 30 minutes depending on actual demand and supply of money"
"That's 20.02% APY. This interest rate cap is subject to change."
So it can change every 30 minutes, and the cap in place is subject to change?
Currently we don't have any KYC procedures. However, in the process of being fully compliant, we may have to require identification one day, but we will definitely announce in advance. Just don't worry about it.
Thanks for the advice.
So basically the system is penalizing account with BTC (because daily pip for them is close to none), and favorizing accounts with USD. That sucks, because I mostly keep my balances in BTC .
.you can always Exchange your currency using the great exchange rates on Bitcoinica!
Yeah, but it basically puts me into forced short position long-term (when BTC price goes up I lose money), which is not something I want.
And the rates when exchanging larger amounts of BTC (like more than 1k) are far from good.
Two More Questions
1. What is the exact formula for Swap? My sums based on your descriptions aren't working out.
2. Why do you have differing Buy and Sell interest Rates for a single currency? My reasoning: If holding a currency earns you X% of balance then selling that currency should cost you X% too.
There's probably a lot more to question two than the simple way I've put it, I'd like to be set straight.
1. What is the exact formula for Swap? My sums based on your descriptions aren't working out.
2. Why do you have differing Buy and Sell interest Rates for a single currency? My reasoning: If holding a currency earns you X% of balance then selling that currency should cost you X% too.
There's probably a lot more to question two than the simple way I've put it, I'd like to be set straight.
So basically the system is penalizing account with BTC (because daily pip for them is close to none), and favorizing accounts with USD. That sucks, because I mostly keep my balances in BTC .
.you can always Exchange your currency using the great exchange rates on Bitcoinica!
Where can I find the rate for currency that is not in position? I see rates for buy/sell, but not for funds alone. Or am I missing something?
For a currency balance the interest rate is the buy interest rate for that currency; It says so on the Bitcoinica Interest Rate Page:
Quote
How does interest rate affect you?
Currency account USD balance
We pay you interest every day based on USD Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Currency account BTC balance
We pay you interest every day based on BTC Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Currency account USD balance
We pay you interest every day based on USD Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Currency account BTC balance
We pay you interest every day based on BTC Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Ueah, missed that.
So basically the system is penalizing account with BTC (because daily pip for them is close to none), and favorizing accounts with USD. That sucks, because I mostly keep my balances in BTC
. 
very confused 
could someone make a formula to calculate this by inputting all the different fields of one's position
atm it looks to me like Zhoutong is going to tax you about 20% per annum for going long & reward you with 12.55% for shorting, I hope that I've got this wrong, that's assuming your margin deposit is in BTC which pays next to nothing
& edit: as he's offering 12.55% annual interest for parking US $ with him will this maybe result in a flood of them & what would be the likely repercussions of having so much spare $ on hand for perhaps people to then go long BTC with them, I think that KT is trying to be making the starfish an endangered species with this
<3 *
edit 2: a formula like this would be most welcome as atm I haven't a clue as to what he's just implemented to positions already open
the formulae for calculating the ZT price is:
entry field 1: Long / Short
entry field 2: Current Bid (changes to Ask if you've entered Short)
entry field 3: Net Value
entry field 4: Maintenance
entry field 5: Amount
entry field 6: BTC Balance
The calc then does the formulae:
F1 = Long
F2 - (F3 - F4) / (F5 + F6) = ZT
F1 = Short
F2 + (F3 - F4) / (F5 - F6) = ZT
could someone make a formula to calculate this by inputting all the different fields of one's position
atm it looks to me like Zhoutong is going to tax you about 20% per annum for going long & reward you with 12.55% for shorting, I hope that I've got this wrong, that's assuming your margin deposit is in BTC which pays next to nothing
& edit: as he's offering 12.55% annual interest for parking US $ with him will this maybe result in a flood of them & what would be the likely repercussions of having so much spare $ on hand for perhaps people to then go long BTC with them, I think that KT is trying to be making the starfish an endangered species with this
<3 *
edit 2: a formula like this would be most welcome as atm I haven't a clue as to what he's just implemented to positions already open
the formulae for calculating the ZT price is:
entry field 1: Long / Short
entry field 2: Current Bid (changes to Ask if you've entered Short)
entry field 3: Net Value
entry field 4: Maintenance
entry field 5: Amount
entry field 6: BTC Balance
The calc then does the formulae:
F1 = Long
F2 - (F3 - F4) / (F5 + F6) = ZT
F1 = Short
F2 + (F3 - F4) / (F5 - F6) = ZT
Zhou this is interesting, but its an unconventional way of doing it.
usually interest is only paid to customers on unallocated deposits.
usually interest is only charged to customers on their margin balance, not the full value of the position
From what you described, interest is paid and charged on the full amounts in either case, correct? Based on the spread, its possible that every account will lose money if BTC price is unchanged? Because I am paying more interest to hold my long position than I am receiving for my deposit. is that correct?
Can you calculate for me in this example:
- I deposit $10,000 USD
- I open a long BTC/USD position for the full amount, 1:1, NO margin
what am I charged for interest on the position?
what am I paid on the deposit?
In conventional finance, both items would be zero. But what is it like in zhoutongs world?
usually interest is only paid to customers on unallocated deposits.
usually interest is only charged to customers on their margin balance, not the full value of the position
From what you described, interest is paid and charged on the full amounts in either case, correct? Based on the spread, its possible that every account will lose money if BTC price is unchanged? Because I am paying more interest to hold my long position than I am receiving for my deposit. is that correct?
Can you calculate for me in this example:
- I deposit $10,000 USD
- I open a long BTC/USD position for the full amount, 1:1, NO margin
what am I charged for interest on the position?
what am I paid on the deposit?
In conventional finance, both items would be zero. But what is it like in zhoutongs world?
Where can I find the rate for currency that is not in position? I see rates for buy/sell, but not for funds alone. Or am I missing something?
For a currency balance the interest rate is the buy interest rate for that currency; It says so on the Bitcoinica Interest Rate Page:
Quote
How does interest rate affect you?
Currency account USD balance
We pay you interest every day based on USD Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Currency account BTC balance
We pay you interest every day based on BTC Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Currency account USD balance
We pay you interest every day based on USD Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Currency account BTC balance
We pay you interest every day based on BTC Buy interest rate, compounded daily.
Where can I find the rate for currency that is not in position? I see rates for buy/sell, but not for funds alone. Or am I missing something?
Do we receive interest on currency balances if even if those balances are being used in an open position?
typical zhoutong, he makes an announcement and then just ignores questions he doesn't like
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
Currently, I'm the official operator of Bitcoinica, and I'm also the CEO of xWaylab Inc., a Delaware-based corporation. I'm ignoring your question because that has been addressed 5 months ago on bitcointalk.org.
However, there is going to be a change in the corporate status to allow financial services to be provided with full compliance, but we are unable to disclose more information.
Ok i understand. I'm not aware of any discussion regarding your company, so please provide some links to it. Please post some contact information, phone, address and such, company website doesn't seem to be up.
edit: is this information accurate ?
Quote
Tong, Zhou
xWaylab Inc.
2711 Centerville Road
Wilmington, Delaware 19808
United States
Telephone: +1.3024828086
Fax: +1.3024828086
xWaylab Inc.
2711 Centerville Road
Wilmington, Delaware 19808
United States
Telephone: +1.3024828086
Fax: +1.3024828086
Yes, this is the information that we submitted to the registered agent during the incorporation. All our identity information is on file with our registered agent.
I can totally understand the community's general feelings towards a new Bitcoin business, and that happened to Bitcoinica before. But now I guess the majority of the community has no trust issues with us and the primary debatable topics are more related to the whole Bitcoin market.
We have a significant market share in Bitcoin trading, and we are also holding a huge amount of customer deposits.
In the future a few weeks, we will make our legal information fully available to our users. So please just wait while we're getting everything ready.
typical zhoutong, he makes an announcement and then just ignores questions he doesn't like
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
Currently, I'm the official operator of Bitcoinica, and I'm also the CEO of xWaylab Inc., a Delaware-based corporation. I'm ignoring your question because that has been addressed 5 months ago on bitcointalk.org.
However, there is going to be a change in the corporate status to allow financial services to be provided with full compliance, but we are unable to disclose more information.
Ok i understand. I'm not aware of any discussion regarding your company, so please provide some links to it. Please post some contact information, phone, address and such, company website doesn't seem to be up.
edit: is this information accurate ?
Quote
Tong, Zhou
xWaylab Inc.
2711 Centerville Road
Wilmington, Delaware 19808
United States
Telephone: +1.3024828086
Fax: +1.3024828086
xWaylab Inc.
2711 Centerville Road
Wilmington, Delaware 19808
United States
Telephone: +1.3024828086
Fax: +1.3024828086
typical zhoutong, he makes an announcement and then just ignores questions he doesn't like
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
edit: please provide company info, i found nothing on your website
Currently, I'm the official operator of Bitcoinica, and I'm also the CEO of xWaylab Inc., a Delaware-based corporation. I'm ignoring your question because that has been addressed 5 months ago on bitcointalk.org.
However, there is going to be a change in the corporate status to allow financial services to be provided with full compliance, but we are unable to disclose more information.
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