bitcoins amount going down by being lost

DannyHamilton

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Quote from: ziptie on June 19, 2013, 02:27:45 AM

If the number of coins in circulation goes down, a number of things can be done to offset the effects of deflation and maintain the velocity of transactions. For example, smaller fractions of currency can be introduced into transactions, however it would be annoying to have to constantly count a bunch of leading zeros.

No need to count leading zeros. If the common denomination gets that small, people will naturally migrate to millibitcoins and then eventually to microbitcoins.

Why count the leading zeros in 0.00126 BTC, when you can simply refer to 1.26 mBTC.

I'd certainly expect to see a price of 2.83 µBTC rather than 0.00000283 BTC (or at least I'd expect it to be displayed as 283 satoshi).

fuzz

newbie

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I was just wondering about this situation the other day, interesting article.

Figured the value would just increase, but it's startling to think that so many coins have been lost already.

ziptie

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If the number of coins in circulation goes down, a number of things can be done to offset the effects of deflation and maintain the velocity of transactions. For example, smaller fractions of currency can be introduced into transactions, however it would be annoying to have to constantly count a bunch of leading zeros.

msk

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Quote from: aceking on June 17, 2013, 05:21:56 AM

the remaining bitcoins go up in value

fair tradeoff imo

Alexander The Great

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Bitcoins used to get lost by the thousands when the currency was in infant stages.

larem

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Quote from: bitbybit2 on June 17, 2013, 12:44:14 PM

Hogwash, how can lost bitcoins pull its perceive value down when in fact to soothsayers it doesn't have a perceive value.

You seriously need to try reading next time. Nobody said the value of them goes down as a result.

Alexander The Great

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Many bitcoins are being lost all the time it sucks

bitbybit2

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Hogwash, how can lost bitcoins pull its perceive value down when in fact to soothsayers it doesn't have a perceive value.

dewski00

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I would also think that if somebody had a significant amount of bitcoins, they would have paper backups somewhere (under the bed, safety deposit, in a safe, etc).

larem

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Quote from: PeterB on June 17, 2013, 11:11:28 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Won.27t_loss_of_wallets_and_the_finite_amount_of_Bitcoins_create_excessive_deflation.2C_destroying_Bitcoin.3F

This IMHO

Yeah, that was a good read and appears to agree with exactly what I think: as more are lost, the value of the remaining go up.

PeterB

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Quote from: ?? on ??

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#Won.27t_loss_of_wallets_and_the_finite_amount_of_Bitcoins_create_excessive_deflation.2C_destroying_Bitcoin.3F

This IMHO

Peter Lambert

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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye

Quote from: larem on June 17, 2013, 10:08:32 AM

Quote from: Peter Lambert on June 17, 2013, 10:00:42 AM

Quote from: alaudidae on June 17, 2013, 04:54:29 AM

How was the amount of lost BTCs estimated?

You could do a forum search, there is a thread where people list all the known lost bitcoins. Things like people formatting their hard drive without making a backup of their keys, or people sending bitcoins to the wrong address which nobody owns.

I would estimate that whatever's on the list, there's at least 10-20x as many that aren't reported.

There is this old thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lost-bitcoins-63690

Or from another thread:

Quote from: payb.tc on January 18, 2012, 08:22:08 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on January 18, 2012, 07:02:13 PM

Quote from: Mellivora on January 18, 2012, 07:00:29 PM

On a side note, is there an estimate of how many coins have been "lost" by all users? Over the years, there has to be a significant amount. Just curious.

Impossible to estimate. The only thing you can know is how long it has been since a coin has been used.

there was a list somewhere on this forum... i remember it being around 20,000 btc of known lost coins but that was quite a few months ago.

Aha, I think I found it now: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/lets-add-up-the-known-lost-bitcoins-7253 Total know lost bitcoins is over 70 000 bitcoins.

naphto

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Quote from: CanadianGuy on June 17, 2013, 10:18:29 AM

LOL nobody needs to "fake" losing bitcoins. Lost bitcoins would have the same affect as hoarding them. They won't make up the big sell walls you see on your favorite exchange and therefore will result in the buy walls moving up.

If sometimes bitcoin is used in the whole word, and there is only 1 btc remaining. You better "fake" loosing your 10 btc in your wallet.
After a couple of year you could buy Apple or Microsoft maybe.

CanadianGuy

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Quote from: naphto on June 17, 2013, 08:35:01 AM

Quote from: larem on June 17, 2013, 08:30:51 AM

But it's all based on supply and demand. So those that are "lost" just won't ever be put on the market, meaning (using the 10% lost example) there is 10% less supply.

People holding coins are decreasing the supply. they don't use it, they don't sell it, they do nothing with it.
But it's not possible to say if those coins are just "inactive" or "lost" ...

If there is 1000 tickets sold for something, and 10 tickets are lost, you know exactly how many tickets are sold, and lost ...
But it's not possible with bitcoins. Anyone can just pretend to have lost his bitcoins, to make the value increase, and they sell it

LOL nobody needs to "fake" losing bitcoins. Lost bitcoins would have the same affect as hoarding them. They won't make up the big sell walls you see on your favorite exchange and therefore will result in the buy walls moving up.

larem

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Quote from: Peter Lambert on June 17, 2013, 10:00:42 AM

Quote from: alaudidae on June 17, 2013, 04:54:29 AM

How was the amount of lost BTCs estimated?

You could do a forum search, there is a thread where people list all the known lost bitcoins. Things like people formatting their hard drive without making a backup of their keys, or people sending bitcoins to the wrong address which nobody owns.

I would estimate that whatever's on the list, there's at least 10-20x as many that aren't reported.

Peter Lambert

hero member

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It's all fun and games until somebody loses an eye

Quote from: alaudidae on June 17, 2013, 04:54:29 AM

How was the amount of lost BTCs estimated?

You could do a forum search, there is a thread where people list all the known lost bitcoins. Things like people formatting their hard drive without making a backup of their keys, or people sending bitcoins to the wrong address which nobody owns.

ziptie

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By the time lost coins have any affect on the bitcoin economy, there will probably be better digital currencies available. People who believe that BTC will exist forever aren't being realistic. This is something for us to play with today.

larem

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Quote from: naphto on June 17, 2013, 08:35:01 AM

Quote from: larem on June 17, 2013, 08:30:51 AM

But it's all based on supply and demand. So those that are "lost" just won't ever be put on the market, meaning (using the 10% lost example) there is 10% less supply.

People holding coins are decreasing the supply. they don't use it, they don't sell it, they do nothing with it.
But it's not possible to say if those coins are just "inactive" or "lost" ...

If there is 1000 tickets sold for something, and 10 tickets are lost, you know exactly how many tickets are sold, and lost ...
But it's not possible with bitcoins. Anyone can just pretend to have lost his bitcoins, to make the value increase, and they sell it

Ahh, that's a good point... but I think over time it should resolve itself.

naphto

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Quote from: larem on June 17, 2013, 08:30:51 AM

But it's all based on supply and demand. So those that are "lost" just won't ever be put on the market, meaning (using the 10% lost example) there is 10% less supply.

People holding coins are decreasing the supply. they don't use it, they don't sell it, they do nothing with it.
But it's not possible to say if those coins are just "inactive" or "lost" ...

If there is 1000 tickets sold for something, and 10 tickets are lost, you know exactly how many tickets are sold, and lost ...
But it's not possible with bitcoins. Anyone can just pretend to have lost his bitcoins, to make the value increase, and they sell it

larem

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Merit: 250

Quote from: naphto on June 17, 2013, 06:42:02 AM

Quote from: aceking on June 17, 2013, 05:21:56 AM

the remaining bitcoins go up in value

The problem is that it's not possible to distinguish lost bitcoins and bitcoins that are just hold on. Roll Eyes

But it's all based on supply and demand. So those that are "lost" just won't ever be put on the market, meaning (using the 10% lost example) there is 10% less supply.

Topic: bitcoins amount going down by being lost (Read 1555 times)