Topic: Bitcoins and Bankers - page 4. (Read 3543 times)

Quote from: Lieldoryn on June 12, 2017, 06:13:10 PM

Bankers can not influence the situation with bitcoin. Bankers can take an unlimited amount of Fiat money, but to have access to bitcoin they can't. Besides who wants to borrow in bitcoins if the price can rise to it. Such a loan can result in bankruptcy.

this is really complicated to differentiate between bitcoin and bankers. I think both have a different aspect, bankers are basically involved in the traditional banking and bitcoin is involved with the virtual area, but in the future, bankers also will deal with bitcoin.

Yea, bankers will have to deal with bitcoin in the future but bankers can not change the situation in bitcoins. Bitcoin is anonymous while banks is not, both of them has a different aspect concerning about the volatility in both areas.

Neither bitcoins or banks are anonymous, banks will require lots of information before they even allow you to even open an account, in bitcoin this is not the case but every single transaction is there for everyone to see, in the other hand banks only allow yourself and the authorities to see your transactions.

But the bitcoin will need the bank to make a gate for the fiat to get into the bitcoin. I think all of the bitcoin users are need bank to do that. The verification of your id to prevent the money laundering and criminalities.
Every bank around the world will do that.

i don't think that bitcoin need the bank because if there are any bank for bitcoin, then i am sure the bank will need us to fill our personal information and its not the main purpose from bitcoin. i think if the bank can integrate with bitcoin then it maybe would be good to see that when we are trying to exchange from bitcoin into fiat, we don't need to waiting too long and the amount of money can directly receive in our bank account.

Bank is not the only one that asks about personal information. What about exchangers, you have to give your data and still everyone uses them. I think is not the main point of Bitcoin bank like it's not centralization. I think Bitcoin bank could move Bitcoin related services to another level without bad influence on Bitcoin.

ethereumhunter

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Quote from: asriloni on June 24, 2017, 10:27:27 AM

Quote from: andrei56 on June 23, 2017, 11:27:42 PM

Quote from: Lieldoryn on June 12, 2017, 06:13:10 PM

Bankers can not influence the situation with bitcoin. Bankers can take an unlimited amount of Fiat money, but to have access to bitcoin they can't. Besides who wants to borrow in bitcoins if the price can rise to it. Such a loan can result in bankruptcy.

this is really complicated to differentiate between bitcoin and bankers. I think both have a different aspect, bankers are basically involved in the traditional banking and bitcoin is involved with the virtual area, but in the future, bankers also will deal with bitcoin.

Yea, bankers will have to deal with bitcoin in the future but bankers can not change the situation in bitcoins. Bitcoin is anonymous while banks is not, both of them has a different aspect concerning about the volatility in both areas.

Neither bitcoins or banks are anonymous, banks will require lots of information before they even allow you to even open an account, in bitcoin this is not the case but every single transaction is there for everyone to see, in the other hand banks only allow yourself and the authorities to see your transactions.

But the bitcoin will need the bank to make a gate for the fiat to get into the bitcoin. I think all of the bitcoin users are need bank to do that. The verification of your id to prevent the money laundering and criminalities.
Every bank around the world will do that.

i don't think that bitcoin need the bank because if there are any bank for bitcoin, then i am sure the bank will need us to fill our personal information and its not the main purpose from bitcoin. i think if the bank can integrate with bitcoin then it maybe would be good to see that when we are trying to exchange from bitcoin into fiat, we don't need to waiting too long and the amount of money can directly receive in our bank account.

deisik

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Quote from: Bamselk on June 24, 2017, 08:52:55 AM

Quote from: deisik on June 21, 2017, 07:09:58 AM

Quote from: BitcoinPC on June 21, 2017, 01:58:45 AM

Quote from: andrei56 on June 23, 2017, 11:27:42 PM

Bitcoin and banks serve entriely different functions and ideally can benefit from each others continued existence.

No, bitcoin is trying to provide the functionality which are being offered by banks so far and under some totally different circumstances. In near future you cannot expect these both to exist. More probably, banks may get vanished as bitcoin's concepts are ensuring more power to individual rather than just depending on government or simply banks.

What banking functions is Bitcoin trying to accomplish exactly? Banks, in themselves do no more than store funds, with a possible interest rate, and provide loans. All other functions that one may be performing at a bank building are actually the function of third party services, like the ACH. In fact, most of the margin providing the credit lines and loans is backed and processed by the alternate houses since the faster internet speeds and networking protocols

You forget to mention one important thing that banks are doing

That is, they are working pretty much like Bitcoin miners, though it is not just about processing payments and confirming transactions. Banks like miners are creating money, the former are creating fiat, while the latter bitcoins. I don't think that this function can be outsourced to some third party services since outsourcing this function would mean essentially transforming such a third party into a fiat bank or Bitcoin miner

They're not very much like Bitcoin miners, particularly. Banks just create fiat money, while miners are rewarded with Bitcoin for providing a service to the network. Banks serve little purpose except for being leeches.

This is no more than your massively biased opinion

And there can be other opinions, less biased and more plausible. For example, I don't consider the current generation of miners as something very useful to Bitcoin. To me, they are a lot more nefarious than banks. There are thousands of banks out there, and there is real competition between them unlike Bitcoin mining where we have half a dozen major miners and insanely high fees as well as incredibly long confirmation times as a result of heavy monopolization of this market. Now try to persuade me (or anyone, for that matter) that the service they provide to the network is the best there can be

minizi99

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The banking system has already outlived itself. The time will come and it will collapse. And this is normal development of events. We have already found an alternative that will replace banks. And this alternative is bitcoin

asriloni

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Quote from: Lieldoryn on June 12, 2017, 06:13:10 PM

Bankers can not influence the situation with bitcoin. Bankers can take an unlimited amount of Fiat money, but to have access to bitcoin they can't. Besides who wants to borrow in bitcoins if the price can rise to it. Such a loan can result in bankruptcy.

this is really complicated to differentiate between bitcoin and bankers. I think both have a different aspect, bankers are basically involved in the traditional banking and bitcoin is involved with the virtual area, but in the future, bankers also will deal with bitcoin.

Yea, bankers will have to deal with bitcoin in the future but bankers can not change the situation in bitcoins. Bitcoin is anonymous while banks is not, both of them has a different aspect concerning about the volatility in both areas.

Neither bitcoins or banks are anonymous, banks will require lots of information before they even allow you to even open an account, in bitcoin this is not the case but every single transaction is there for everyone to see, in the other hand banks only allow yourself and the authorities to see your transactions.

But the bitcoin will need the bank to make a gate for the fiat to get into the bitcoin. I think all of the bitcoin users are need bank to do that. The verification of your id to prevent the money laundering and criminalities.
Every bank around the world will do that.

Bamselk

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Quote from: deisik on June 21, 2017, 07:09:58 AM

Quote from: BitcoinPC on June 21, 2017, 01:58:45 AM

Bitcoin and banks serve entriely different functions and ideally can benefit from each others continued existence.

No, bitcoin is trying to provide the functionality which are being offered by banks so far and under some totally different circumstances. In near future you cannot expect these both to exist. More probably, banks may get vanished as bitcoin's concepts are ensuring more power to individual rather than just depending on government or simply banks.

What banking functions is Bitcoin trying to accomplish exactly? Banks, in themselves do no more than store funds, with a possible interest rate, and provide loans. All other functions that one may be performing at a bank building are actually the function of third party services, like the ACH. In fact, most of the margin providing the credit lines and loans is backed and processed by the alternate houses since the faster internet speeds and networking protocols

You forget to mention one important thing that banks are doing

That is, they are working pretty much like Bitcoin miners, though it is not just about processing payments and confirming transactions. Banks like miners are creating money, the former are creating fiat, while the latter bitcoins. I don't think that this function can be outsourced to some third party services since outsourcing this function would mean essentially transforming such a third party into a fiat bank or Bitcoin miner

They're not very much like Bitcoin miners, particularly. Banks just create fiat money, while miners are rewarded with Bitcoin for providing a service to the network. Banks serve little purpose except for being leeches.

GideonGono

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Hello All,

I'm new to crypto but not new to the banking/gov game.

What are you thoughts on the bankers/gov potentially controlling Bitcoin behind the scenes putting on a show oh how they are concerned about it?

They can print the fiat to buy bitcoins.
Its the electronic money/world currency they are so thirsty for.
The NSA has supposedly a back door to all our devices.

I think if bitcoin is the new banker currency it will explode higher as 7.5 billion people vs 21 million bitcoins means $$$$ to the early holders.
If Bitcoin is the alternative to the bankers/gov then it will explode higher as well due to the high percentage of people who want to be free from them.

Anyone who has attempted to not use the dollar Ghadaffi (gold Dinar) - Saddam (oil for Euros) have met a swift end.

Why are they not stopping (possible jail threats) it when they have shown they will go to extreme measures to stop competition.

Either way I see it going higher i'm just trying to get my head around why it has not been stopped.

Thoughts?

You can't just print fiats if you want to. Printing a lot would really put the entire currency circulating in a particular country into chaos and it is by the law. Those very rich people really doesn't show much enthusiasm regarding Bitcoin since they are very rich they don't really need the help of it to sustain themselves nor have time to get to know with Bitcoin.

But if Bitcoin would grow even more and gain a lot of momentum for them to pick an interest in it then they will think twice and might as well accept it as a payment.

There's nothing much with Bankers really.

andrei56

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Quote from: Lieldoryn on June 12, 2017, 06:13:10 PM

Bankers can not influence the situation with bitcoin. Bankers can take an unlimited amount of Fiat money, but to have access to bitcoin they can't. Besides who wants to borrow in bitcoins if the price can rise to it. Such a loan can result in bankruptcy.

this is really complicated to differentiate between bitcoin and bankers. I think both have a different aspect, bankers are basically involved in the traditional banking and bitcoin is involved with the virtual area, but in the future, bankers also will deal with bitcoin.

Yea, bankers will have to deal with bitcoin in the future but bankers can not change the situation in bitcoins. Bitcoin is anonymous while banks is not, both of them has a different aspect concerning about the volatility in both areas.

Neither bitcoins or banks are anonymous, banks will require lots of information before they even allow you to even open an account, in bitcoin this is not the case but every single transaction is there for everyone to see, in the other hand banks only allow yourself and the authorities to see your transactions.

deisik

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Quote from: BitcoinPC on June 21, 2017, 01:58:45 AM

Bitcoin and banks serve entriely different functions and ideally can benefit from each others continued existence.

No, bitcoin is trying to provide the functionality which are being offered by banks so far and under some totally different circumstances. In near future you cannot expect these both to exist. More probably, banks may get vanished as bitcoin's concepts are ensuring more power to individual rather than just depending on government or simply banks.

What banking functions is Bitcoin trying to accomplish exactly? Banks, in themselves do no more than store funds, with a possible interest rate, and provide loans. All other functions that one may be performing at a bank building are actually the function of third party services, like the ACH. In fact, most of the margin providing the credit lines and loans is backed and processed by the alternate houses since the faster internet speeds and networking protocols

You forget to mention one important thing that banks are doing

That is, they are working pretty much like Bitcoin miners, though it is not just about processing payments and confirming transactions. Banks like miners are creating money, the former are creating fiat, while the latter bitcoins. I don't think that this function can be outsourced to some third party services since outsourcing this function would mean essentially transforming such a third party into a fiat bank or Bitcoin miner

olubams

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Quote from: BitcoinPC on June 21, 2017, 01:58:45 AM

Hello All,

I'm new to crypto but not new to the banking/gov game.

What are you thoughts on the bankers/gov potentially controlling Bitcoin behind the scenes putting on a show oh how they are concerned about it?

They can print the fiat to buy bitcoins.
Its the electronic money/world currency they are so thirsty for.
The NSA has supposedly a back door to all our devices.

I think if bitcoin is the new banker currency it will explode higher as 7.5 billion people vs 21 million bitcoins means $$$$ to the early holders.
If Bitcoin is the alternative to the bankers/gov then it will explode higher as well due to the high percentage of people who want to be free from them.

Anyone who has attempted to not use the dollar Ghadaffi (gold Dinar) - Saddam (oil for Euros) have met a swift end.

Why are they not stopping (possible jail threats) it when they have shown they will go to extreme measures to stop competition.

Either way I see it going higher i'm just trying to get my head around why it has not been stopped.

Thoughts?

Its good to assume what you have there but the logic behind it is what I am trying to understand because its only the central banks that have the legal backing to print currencies with a lot of regulations and scrutiny on how the amount printed is eventually utilised couple with the adverse economic effect its going to have on the economy when there is excess liquidity in the economy. Aside that, it will mean the government is just trying to make some people rich and these people are random set of people because by buying massive as you alluded means they are pushing the price so high that people they buy from get to be super rich any time soon.

matuson

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Quote from: Sled on June 21, 2017, 02:53:27 AM

Bitcoin and banks serve entriely different functions and ideally can benefit from each others continued existence.

No, bitcoin is trying to provide the functionality which are being offered by banks so far and under some totally different circumstances. In near future you cannot expect these both to exist. More probably, banks may get vanished as bitcoin's concepts are ensuring more power to individual rather than just depending on government or simply banks.

What banking functions is Bitcoin trying to accomplish exactly? Banks, in themselves do no more than store funds, with a possible interest rate, and provide loans. All other functions that one may be performing at a bank building are actually the function of third party services, like the ACH. In fact, most of the margin providing the credit lines and loans is backed and processed by the alternate houses since the faster internet speeds and networking protocols.

Now to create a Bank which will give out loans in bitcoins is impossible. What idiot would agree to take out a loan in bitcoins? If the price keeps going up then you will never be able to repay. The Bank will also go bankrupt.

X-ray

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Quote from: posternat on June 21, 2017, 01:08:49 AM

Quote from: bitart on June 20, 2017, 04:53:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 20, 2017, 03:24:20 PM

Bitcoin and banks serve entriely different functions and ideally can benefit from each others continued existence.

No, bitcoin is trying to provide the functionality which are being offered by banks so far and under some totally different circumstances. In near future you cannot expect these both to exist. More probably, banks may get vanished as bitcoin's concepts are ensuring more power to individual rather than just depending on government or simply banks

That's very unlikely (and still less in the near future)

Banks are required to process fiat payments, and they will exist as long as there is fiat still around. And I'd rather say that it is Bitcoin which is going to vanish sooner. And it may happen not in some abstract "near" future but in the nearest future when Bitcoin gets split into several conflicting and competing chains. Aside from that, Bitcoin simply can't scale up to replace fiat in any meaningful degree, at least, now. Things may change in some distant future but it should first survive the future which I just mentioned (i.e. the coming chain split)

And the technology of bitcoin (blockchain) will be useful for banks to improve their service in the near future. They need to improve, because in 2018 PSD2 will force them to share some of their data with fintech companies. Fintech companies are good in specialized part of the banking sector (e.g. instant payment, small payments, parking fees, etc.). If PSD2 will come into force, fintech companies can start the development of their systems based on existing financial data and they don't need to gather data thru their app from a limited source.

So..........you could store coins in your Bitcoin wallet, something that can be done at a bank, but that is the same function as a wallet, thus why they are called wallets in Bitcoin, not banks. A bank provides a secure storage, that is what the online wallet are doing, not Bitcoin. A personal Bitcoin wallet has to be keep safe by the user.

If you are a bitcoin user then you don't need banks anymore because banks is not that profitable to put our money and it is not safe to put or give trust to them to control our money because unlike in bitcoin that we have the private keys and full control but in bank it is not that same and banks is just giving the half of access and they can freeze your account anytime they want because they have the control on their behalf.

Just realize dude, You will never cashout your bitcoin without use the bank service. Bitcoin still pegged with the banker's service. To make the bitcoin will be available for the real usage. I mean our real life. That's my point.

timerland

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Hello All,

I'm new to crypto but not new to the banking/gov game.

What are you thoughts on the bankers/gov potentially controlling Bitcoin behind the scenes putting on a show oh how they are concerned about it?

They can print the fiat to buy bitcoins.
Its the electronic money/world currency they are so thirsty for.
The NSA has supposedly a back door to all our devices.

I think if bitcoin is the new banker currency it will explode higher as 7.5 billion people vs 21 million bitcoins means $$$$ to the early holders.
If Bitcoin is the alternative to the bankers/gov then it will explode higher as well due to the high percentage of people who want to be free from them.

Anyone who has attempted to not use the dollar Ghadaffi (gold Dinar) - Saddam (oil for Euros) have met a swift end.

Why are they not stopping (possible jail threats) it when they have shown they will go to extreme measures to stop competition.

Either way I see it going higher i'm just trying to get my head around why it has not been stopped.

Thoughts?

If they do print more money they would just bump up the price of bitcoin even more - now this does seem completely illogical for me if they wanted to shut down the entire bitcoin system, because they are just devaluing their own currency against bitcoin! Not only will this benefit the bitcoin users, it'll also mean that a lot of taxpayers are paynig the government to buy into... Well, an investment that they don't even particularly like...

The NSA backdoors is really something that should concern every one of us. The Wannacry virus apparently was because of an NSA backdoor and they have apparently ordered intel to install CPU within the CPU so that they can monitor our data whenever we go. this is truly scary, if it turned out to be true. I believe that it is extremely likely, and this is the reason why people should keep their bitcoin private keys completely offline, don't even print it out, write it down with a pen. It might seem redundant but you never know what will happen.

hello_good_sir

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Quote from: Sled on June 21, 2017, 02:53:27 AM

Hello All,

I'm new to crypto but not new to the banking/gov game.

What are you thoughts on the bankers/gov potentially controlling Bitcoin behind the scenes putting on a show oh how they are concerned about it?

They can print the fiat to buy bitcoins.
Its the electronic money/world currency they are so thirsty for.
The NSA has supposedly a back door to all our devices.

I think if bitcoin is the new banker currency it will explode higher as 7.5 billion people vs 21 million bitcoins means $$$$ to the early holders.
If Bitcoin is the alternative to the bankers/gov then it will explode higher as well due to the high percentage of people who want to be free from them.

Anyone who has attempted to not use the dollar Ghadaffi (gold Dinar) - Saddam (oil for Euros) have met a swift end.

Why are they not stopping (possible jail threats) it when they have shown they will go to extreme measures to stop competition.

Either way I see it going higher i'm just trying to get my head around why it has not been stopped.

Thoughts?

There is no way for them to directly control the actual bitcoin framework.

Decentralization basically makes it impossible for them to do so and this is a part of the reason why they absolutely despise bitcoin, even though its technology should be embraced by everyone in my opinion(the government obviously have a conflict of interest in this case, if people use bitcoin then they aren't going to use fiat because bitcoin is genuinely better, and will lead to capital flowing into btc, crashing fiat, governments don't want that to happen.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if in the future, the government started to give out jail sentences for those who hold btc. However this is extremely hard to enforce, and almost impossible to check. Bitcoin does have identifiers that you have browse publicly, but linking these numbers to a name is extremely hard, if not impossible if someone uses all the functionality that bitcoin offers to its fully extent(running a full node, etc.). And if the government does decide to crack down on bitcoin holders, i think that more people would actually start using bitcoin, out of curiosity, much like how religions are at its strongest when a government is trying to restrict it.

CARrency

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Quote from: posternat on June 21, 2017, 01:08:49 AM

Quote from: bitart on June 20, 2017, 04:53:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 20, 2017, 03:24:20 PM

Quote from: posternat on June 21, 2017, 01:08:49 AM

Bitcoin and banks serve entriely different functions and ideally can benefit from each others continued existence.

No, bitcoin is trying to provide the functionality which are being offered by banks so far and under some totally different circumstances. In near future you cannot expect these both to exist. More probably, banks may get vanished as bitcoin's concepts are ensuring more power to individual rather than just depending on government or simply banks

That's very unlikely (and still less in the near future)

Banks are required to process fiat payments, and they will exist as long as there is fiat still around. And I'd rather say that it is Bitcoin which is going to vanish sooner. And it may happen not in some abstract "near" future but in the nearest future when Bitcoin gets split into several conflicting and competing chains. Aside from that, Bitcoin simply can't scale up to replace fiat in any meaningful degree, at least, now. Things may change in some distant future but it should first survive the future which I just mentioned (i.e. the coming chain split)

And the technology of bitcoin (blockchain) will be useful for banks to improve their service in the near future. They need to improve, because in 2018 PSD2 will force them to share some of their data with fintech companies. Fintech companies are good in specialized part of the banking sector (e.g. instant payment, small payments, parking fees, etc.). If PSD2 will come into force, fintech companies can start the development of their systems based on existing financial data and they don't need to gather data thru their app from a limited source.

So..........you could store coins in your Bitcoin wallet, something that can be done at a bank, but that is the same function as a wallet, thus why they are called wallets in Bitcoin, not banks. A bank provides a secure storage, that is what the online wallet are doing, not Bitcoin. A personal Bitcoin wallet has to be keep safe by the user.

If you are a bitcoin user then you don't need banks anymore because banks is not that profitable to put our money and it is not safe to put or give trust to them to control our money because unlike in bitcoin that we have the private keys and full control but in bank it is not that same and banks is just giving the half of access and they can freeze your account anytime they want because they have the control on their behalf.

That is obvious man, our money is not volatile that it changes price when we put it in a bank, we put it in a bank so it will be stored and be used by us in the future, it is their job. Having a bitcoin, we don't need banks, we need to have skills, maybe use it to trade or invest. Government will never control this digital currency, and also I think they gave up on that because they are just legalizing bitcoin to their country.

Sled

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Quote from: bitart on June 20, 2017, 04:53:00 PM

Quote from: deisik on June 20, 2017, 03:24:20 PM

Bitcoin and banks serve entriely different functions and ideally can benefit from each others continued existence.

No, bitcoin is trying to provide the functionality which are being offered by banks so far and under some totally different circumstances. In near future you cannot expect these both to exist. More probably, banks may get vanished as bitcoin's concepts are ensuring more power to individual rather than just depending on government or simply banks

That's very unlikely (and still less in the near future)

Banks are required to process fiat payments, and they will exist as long as there is fiat still around. And I'd rather say that it is Bitcoin which is going to vanish sooner. And it may happen not in some abstract "near" future but in the nearest future when Bitcoin gets split into several conflicting and competing chains. Aside from that, Bitcoin simply can't scale up to replace fiat in any meaningful degree, at least, now. Things may change in some distant future but it should first survive the future which I just mentioned (i.e. the coming chain split)

And the technology of bitcoin (blockchain) will be useful for banks to improve their service in the near future. They need to improve, because in 2018 PSD2 will force them to share some of their data with fintech companies. Fintech companies are good in specialized part of the banking sector (e.g. instant payment, small payments, parking fees, etc.). If PSD2 will come into force, fintech companies can start the development of their systems based on existing financial data and they don't need to gather data thru their app from a limited source.

So..........you could store coins in your Bitcoin wallet, something that can be done at a bank, but that is the same function as a wallet, thus why they are called wallets in Bitcoin, not banks. A bank provides a secure storage, that is what the online wallet are doing, not Bitcoin. A personal Bitcoin wallet has to be keep safe by the user.

If you are a bitcoin user then you don't need banks anymore because banks is not that profitable to put our money and it is not safe to put or give trust to them to control our money because unlike in bitcoin that we have the private keys and full control but in bank it is not that same and banks is just giving the half of access and they can freeze your account anytime they want because they have the control on their behalf.

Love!

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Hello All,

I'm new to crypto but not new to the banking/gov game.

What are you thoughts on the bankers/gov potentially controlling Bitcoin behind the scenes putting on a show oh how they are concerned about it?

Anyone who has attempted to not use the dollar Ghadaffi (gold Dinar) - Saddam (oil for Euros) have met a swift end.

Why are they not stopping (possible jail threats) it when they have shown they will go to extreme measures to stop competition.

Either way I see it going higher i'm just trying to get my head around why it has not been stopped.

Thoughts?

Because they don't care too much. They don't about Crypto as much as they did about Ghadaffi / Saddam because the latter posed a bigger threat to the world economy as a whole.

BitcoinPC

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