Bitcoins and other cryptos will never become mainstream before...

Abiky

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Quote from: worldofcoins on January 16, 2024, 05:58:12 PM

I think Bitcoin ETF approval is good news not only for Bitcoin but for overall crypto as a whole.

Recently, I heard the Blackrock CEO say they will apply for Ethereum ETF. And we know it whenever Blackrock applies for an ETF, then they get it. At least that's what happened every time, excluding one time when it was denied.

We will soon see people using ATMs to exchange their crypto for fiat quickly after seeing chains like BNB do it quicker than Bitcoin.
Bitcoin might not be used all the time but will remain OG crypto.

The ETF move will certainly bring mainstream exposure to crypto assets. People will start looking at BTC and altcoins as a legitimate asset class. For something that was once considered "the wild west", I'd say we're making progress. Eventually, crypto enemies (Jamie Dimon, Warren Buffet, Elizabeth Warren, etc.) will take what they've said back, as they'll be left with no other choice. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?

With crypto on the road towards non-stop success, we should accumulate as much coins as possible for the next bull market. Just buy, hodl, and forget about the rest. Grin

Reatim

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We can see now after 13 years of bitcoin existence that people are adopting this currencies mate because we are only focusing in Bitcoin in which indeed the best one but we forgot to mention altcoins that also have their own users yet stands as cryptocurrencies.

what I am telling here is that the Mainstreaming needs to be conclude to the whole market and not just only one , we must also accept that their existence is legit now and serving all the people around the globe so better called Mainstream of crypto with Bitcoin leadership.

this is in mainstream now mate , as those are being called mostly in bad scenarios that make it more popular from the eye of the world.

coinremitter

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Certainly, We understand the sentiment expressed. It's true that for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin to become truly mainstream, they need to address the everyday needs of the average person, such as buying water bottles or other common goods. The practical utility and ease of use in daily transactions are crucial for widespread adoption.

The observation about the political nature of the challenge is an interesting perspective. The existing financial system, influenced by deep-rooted institutions, does present obstacles to the seamless integration of cryptocurrencies into everyday life. Overcoming these barriers requires not only technological advancements but also broader societal changes and acceptance.

It's essential to consider the evolving landscape and recognize that cryptocurrencies are still in their early stages of development. As the technology matures and the regulatory environment becomes clearer, there is potential for increased integration into mainstream activities. However, achieving this will require a delicate balance between innovation, regulation, and societal acceptance.

milewilda

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Quote from: Abiky on January 16, 2024, 05:37:17 PM

Quote from: legiteum on January 15, 2024, 05:27:40 PM

Until the basic laws of physics are repealed, there will be no way a decentralized infrastructure will scale to the level needed to truly take on the world-wide credit card infrastructure (which is just a start in taking over currency generally).

And even centralized cryptocurrencies using blockchain are too slow and expensive to scale to this level. XRP touts aspirational numbers of "a thousand transactions a second" when a real competitor would need to be several million transactions a second. There's simply no way you can do this with blockchain, and you'd instead need to use a non-blockchain paradigm like Haypenny.

Blockchain is a great platform for meme investments like Bitcoin or NFTs, but it's not suitable as a real, mainstream currency and never will be.

I think decentralized cryptocurrencies can scale to the level of VISA/Mastercard via the use of an off-chain scaling solution (aka Layer-Two). The only problem is that you still need to pay an on-chain fee (usually high) to open/close channels. If there was a way to circumvent that, Bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrencies would be on a road towards massive adoption worldwide. I've been doing some "digging" and found a Bitcoin L2 network called "Ark". It's privacy-focused and doesn't require you to pay on-chain fees to interact with it. Maybe someday the Lightning Network will use this technique? I hope so, especially when there's huge interest into BTC and altcoins.

I'd bet 10 years from now, BTC would've already solved its scaling issues without sacrificing decentralization. The future is not set, so anything's possible. Grin

If LN would really be that something could be finalized or something that could really be able to enhanced out then pretty sure it would be that something that will really be solving out that kind of problem.
When it comes to utility then we do know that people would really be liking to see on how Bitcoin would really be integrated when we do speak about payment option. Now that we've seen that
Bitcoin ETF's had been that approved then it would really be that safe to assume that adoption rate and recognition did really reach out on a point that it is really that that
getting that much attention yet it has come through this.

Never become a mainstream? Possible but we do know that it could really be that something having that utility and plus we wont really be that becoming so big
if there would be having no kind of interest and adoption of course.

legiteum

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Quote from: Abiky on January 16, 2024, 05:37:17 PM

I'd bet 10 years from now, BTC would've already solved its scaling issues without sacrificing decentralization. The future is not set, so anything's possible. Grin

It's already been more than 10 years. And billions of dollars have been poured into the problem. And Bitcoin is slower and more expensive now than it's ever been.

I'm betting the other way, personally. Grin

worldofcoins

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I think Bitcoin ETF approval is good news not only for Bitcoin but for overall crypto as a whole.

Recently, I heard the Blackrock CEO say they will apply for Ethereum ETF. And we know it whenever Blackrock applies for an ETF, then they get it. At least that's what happened every time, excluding one time when it was denied.

We will soon see people using ATMs to exchange their crypto for fiat quickly after seeing chains like BNB do it quicker than Bitcoin.
Bitcoin might not be used all the time but will remain OG crypto.

Abiky

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Quote from: legiteum on January 15, 2024, 05:27:40 PM

Until the basic laws of physics are repealed, there will be no way a decentralized infrastructure will scale to the level needed to truly take on the world-wide credit card infrastructure (which is just a start in taking over currency generally).

And even centralized cryptocurrencies using blockchain are too slow and expensive to scale to this level. XRP touts aspirational numbers of "a thousand transactions a second" when a real competitor would need to be several million transactions a second. There's simply no way you can do this with blockchain, and you'd instead need to use a non-blockchain paradigm like Haypenny.

Blockchain is a great platform for meme investments like Bitcoin or NFTs, but it's not suitable as a real, mainstream currency and never will be.

I think decentralized cryptocurrencies can scale to the level of VISA/Mastercard via the use of an off-chain scaling solution (aka Layer-Two). The only problem is that you still need to pay an on-chain fee (usually high) to open/close channels. If there was a way to circumvent that, Bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrencies would be on a road towards massive adoption worldwide. I've been doing some "digging" and found a Bitcoin L2 network called "Ark". It's privacy-focused and doesn't require you to pay on-chain fees to interact with it. Maybe someday the Lightning Network will use this technique? I hope so, especially when there's huge interest into BTC and altcoins.

I'd bet 10 years from now, BTC would've already solved its scaling issues without sacrificing decentralization. The future is not set, so anything's possible. Grin

NewRanger

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Look at the future of this blockchain technology. Was it born of a more liberal alien civilization which I interpret from your statement as a disruptive event for most other industries but Bitcoin is more than just a digital currency friends.

I don't like to discuss this in the political realm, there is quite a lot of drama there and don't think that it is the main source of failure in meeting the needs of society as a whole and you compare it with the history of money in other realms for now, but I am also very confident that this technology will quickly be adopted universally only However, there are still many banking countries that are still reluctant to embrace this alternative.

legiteum

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Quote from: Odohu on January 15, 2024, 06:08:21 PM

Quote from: legiteum on January 15, 2024, 12:42:29 AM

Everybody knows the name "Bitcoin" and it's a meme worth over one half trillion dollars. What more do you want?

I disagree with you that Bitcoin is a "mem". That is far from the truth and seem to me like FUD. If you have not used Bitcoin, then you will never know the power it carries. If you come from a country like mine where there are several restrictions to FX, you will appreciate Bitcoin better. We cherish Bitcoin here because we know how difficult it is for the average man to do business across the globe even in remittances. So Bitcoin is far from being a meme.

Um, I've used Bitcoin. Many times. It didn't make me feel any different

.

I can certainly see where Bitcoin will have niches e.g. countries where the government is corrupt and unstable, and I should have qualified my comment above.

However, as it's mainstream appeal, Bitcoin is an investment, and it's an investment in a "name", not an investment based on it's practical use (there are thousands of other cryptocurrencies that do what Bitcoin does for your country, and now pure digital currencies that will serve as a means of value transfer far better than Bitcoin or any blockchain-based currency).

Odohu

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Quote from: legiteum on January 15, 2024, 12:42:29 AM

Quote from: kotajikikox on January 14, 2024, 10:17:49 PM

Not just because it can buy water means it is mainstream because it is a need to be adopted by worldwide and not just in specific place , remember that there are countries now that already having this existing like in El Salvador yet is this already mainstream? maybe in their country but worldwide is something we still waiting.

People aren't buying water bottles with Bitcoin in El Salvador or anyplace else. You don't need a government to buy up a bunch of it like they did in order to make Bitcoin mainstream, you need to make it perform comparable to credit card transactions at a comparable price, which Bitcoin is at least 1000x from being.

The water bottles was used as an example to represent basic items. Well, people might not be using Bitcoin to buy a lot of their basic items, probably considering the high fees, but when the dust settles, I'm sure many things can be purchased with Bitcoin in El Salvador and beyond. Personally I have paid for many things through Bitcoin even across borders.

Quote from: legiteum on January 15, 2024, 12:42:29 AM

Everybody knows the name "Bitcoin" and it's a meme worth over one half trillion dollars. What more do you want?

I disagree with you that Bitcoin is a "mem". That is far from the truth and seem to me like FUD. If you have not used Bitcoin, then you will never know the power it carries. If you come from a country like mine where there are several restrictions to FX, you will appreciate Bitcoin better. We cherish Bitcoin here because we know how difficult it is for the average man to do business across the globe even in remittances. So Bitcoin is far from being a meme.

Assface16678

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Quote from: kotajikikox on January 14, 2024, 10:17:49 PM

Quote from: Steph.A on December 18, 2023, 08:58:13 AM

Bitcoins and other cryptos will never become mainstream before... people can buy water bottles with them.

Quite simple, many expecting an explosive entropy of the bitcoin adoption / price but truth is the average folk most common needs and use of money aren't met by bitcoin, this fact goes against the very foundation of any successfully implemented mean of money anytime across recorded history. It really is a political problem at it's core, the deep states run by bankers won't let a viable alternative co-exist in the streets. I have no doubt that with truly liberal and free alien civilizations, the blockchain technology would have attained (for all purposes) universal adoption in a shorter time that the cryptos have been around by now here.

What are your takes about that sentiment?

Not just because it can buy water means it is mainstream because it is a need to be adopted by worldwide and not just in specific place , remember that there are countries now that already having this existing like in El Salvador yet is this already mainstream? maybe in their country but worldwide is something we still waiting.

Exactly! It doesn't mean that if bitcoin has been adopted worldwide or most of the countries accept it, it should be used like fiat money. No, if it happens that bitcoin becomes accepted in the society and most of the country, it will become like other fiat money and an other option of payment, so the people can have a chance to use their assets to purchase things, but of course before it happens, there will be a long process and plan on how bitcoin can be used in the society, and of course, a set of rules and laws will be implemented. And of course you can't buy anything with bitcoin, for example, a bottle of water. Will you use your precious asset for that? Maybe bitcoin will be used in transactions that have a high value. As we know, bitcoin is peer-to-peer so it's safe to do big transactions through bitcoin. OP's classification of mainstream is different from ours, but it is his opinion.

legiteum

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Quote from: Abiky on January 15, 2024, 05:10:25 PM

Quote from: legiteum on January 14, 2024, 08:55:12 PM

15 years is a eons for... technology. And Bitcoin has traveled further from it's goals of being a decentralized currency in that time, not closer.

The ETF in particular makes a mockery of the original goals of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a meme investment instrument, not a viable means of mainstream transactions. There's nothing wrong with that, but you might as well get used to calling it what it really is...

You're right about that. ETFs move Bitcoin away from its original purpose. Most people don't care about this because they only want market prices to go up over time. It's this "indifference" that will give banks and governments the ultimate victory over Bitcoin. Fortunately, not all hope is lost. The community can make a new fork with decentralization + censorship-resistance in mind. Or they can choose an existing fork like Bitcoin Cash and call it the "original Bitcoin". Things would've been worse if BTC was a closed source cryptocurrency.

I know development progress has taken longer than usual, but let me tell you that scaling the Blockchain is no easy task. Especially when developers have to make a balance between decentralization and convenience. Otherwise, BTC would risk turning into a centralized coin like XRP and the likes. I'd wait 10 more years to see what happens. Cheesy

Until the basic laws of physics are repealed, there will be no way a decentralized infrastructure will scale to the level needed to truly take on the world-wide credit card infrastructure (which is just a start in taking over currency generally).

And even centralized cryptocurrencies using blockchain are too slow and expensive to scale to this level. XRP touts aspirational numbers of "a thousand transactions a second" when a real competitor would need to be several million transactions a second. There's simply no way you can do this with blockchain, and you'd instead need to use a non-blockchain paradigm like Haypenny.

Blockchain is a great platform for meme investments like Bitcoin or NFTs, but it's not suitable as a real, mainstream currency and never will be.

Abiky

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Quote from: legiteum on January 14, 2024, 08:55:12 PM

15 years is a eons for... technology. And Bitcoin has traveled further from it's goals of being a decentralized currency in that time, not closer.

The ETF in particular makes a mockery of the original goals of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a meme investment instrument, not a viable means of mainstream transactions. There's nothing wrong with that, but you might as well get used to calling it what it really is...

You're right about that. ETFs move Bitcoin away from its original purpose. Most people don't care about this because they only want market prices to go up over time. It's this "indifference" that will give banks and governments the ultimate victory over Bitcoin. Fortunately, not all hope is lost. The community can make a new fork with decentralization + censorship-resistance in mind. Or they can choose an existing fork like Bitcoin Cash and call it the "original Bitcoin". Things would've been worse if BTC was a closed source cryptocurrency.

I know development progress has taken longer than usual, but let me tell you that scaling the Blockchain is no easy task. Especially when developers have to make a balance between decentralization and convenience. Otherwise, BTC would risk turning into a centralized coin like XRP and the likes. I'd wait 10 more years to see what happens. Cheesy

legiteum

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Quote from: kotajikikox on January 14, 2024, 10:17:49 PM

Not just because it can buy water means it is mainstream because it is a need to be adopted by worldwide and not just in specific place , remember that there are countries now that already having this existing like in El Salvador yet is this already mainstream? maybe in their country but worldwide is something we still waiting.

People aren't buying water bottles with Bitcoin in El Salvador or anyplace else. You don't need a government to buy up a bunch of it like they did in order to make Bitcoin mainstream, you need to make it perform comparable to credit card transactions at a comparable price, which Bitcoin is at least 1000x from being.

Everybody knows the name "Bitcoin" and it's a meme worth over one half trillion dollars. What more do you want?

kotajikikox

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Quote from: Steph.A on December 18, 2023, 08:58:13 AM

Bitcoins and other cryptos will never become mainstream before... people can buy water bottles with them.

Quite simple, many expecting an explosive entropy of the bitcoin adoption / price but truth is the average folk most common needs and use of money aren't met by bitcoin, this fact goes against the very foundation of any successfully implemented mean of money anytime across recorded history. It really is a political problem at it's core, the deep states run by bankers won't let a viable alternative co-exist in the streets. I have no doubt that with truly liberal and free alien civilizations, the blockchain technology would have attained (for all purposes) universal adoption in a shorter time that the cryptos have been around by now here.

What are your takes about that sentiment?

Not just because it can buy water means it is mainstream because it is a need to be adopted by worldwide and not just in specific place , remember that there are countries now that already having this existing like in El Salvador yet is this already mainstream? maybe in their country but worldwide is something we still waiting.

legiteum

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Quote from: Abiky on January 14, 2024, 07:24:54 PM

New technologies take time to develop until they're mature enough for mainstream use. It's only been 15 years since BTC came to the world. I'd say there has been impressive results within such a short amount of time. We've seen some countries going as far as accepting BTC as legal tender. Not only that, but institutional investors are also considering pouring lots of money into crypto.

With spot ETFs approved in the US and abroad, Bitcoin is on its way of replacing Fiat currencies in the future. Or at least, eliminate the need for paper money. Just buy, "hodl", and forget about the rest. Who knows if early adopters (like us) will strike it rich in the future? Just my thoughts Grin

15 years is a eons for... technology. And Bitcoin has traveled further from it's goals of being a decentralized currency in that time, not closer.

The ETF in particular makes a mockery of the original goals of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is a meme investment instrument, not a viable means of mainstream transactions. There's nothing wrong with that, but you might as well get used to calling it what it really is...

MarjorieZimmermanGinger

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Quote from: Steph.A on December 18, 2023, 08:58:13 AM

Quite simple, many expecting an explosive entropy of the bitcoin adoption / price but truth is the average folk most common needs and use of money aren't met by bitcoin, this fact goes against the very foundation of any successfully implemented mean of money anytime across recorded history. It really is a political problem at it's core, the deep states run by bankers won't let a viable alternative co-exist in the streets. I have no doubt that with truly liberal and free alien civilizations, the blockchain technology would have attained (for all purposes) universal adoption in a shorter time that the cryptos have been around by now here.

Not everything in this world needs to use Bitcoin but can Bitcoin not be used on some purchases in certain stores? Bitcoin will remain a source of strength for him even though thousands of people do not accept Bitcoin as a transaction tool like Fiat in general. I have never doubted Bitcoin as an alternative but it is still quite difficult to describe Bitcoin into a valid transaction tool like Fiat in general and currently there are several places that receive bitcoin as a means of payment like in El Salvador.

Mainstream is what you mean because if the relationship is carried out according to the concept of the Fiat currency, maybe at this time or the next few years it is still impossible to run. Bitcoin has an advantage in terms of investment and trade even though there is a risk in it when people are involved and perhaps other forces as parties who are able to maintain value.

Abiky

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Quote from: cryptomaniac_xxx on January 03, 2024, 04:53:13 PM

I think it's too early to say that crypto will not become mainstream, of course cash is still king, but there are some countries that accepts bitcoin as a payment method and uses LN for that. But it seems that your argument though that bitcoin will be like replacing cash, it will not happen in my opinion. At least give bitcoin a decade to progress, we barely touches the surface as what it can do, and it is still in it's infancy and very young.

If we compare it to the internet, it's the same process, no one wanted to touch and adapt it. But when they realised it's potential, it suddenly exploded late 2000. Same thing with Google, and other technologies that were not adapted early, but now it is part of our lives.

New technologies take time to develop until they're mature enough for mainstream use. It's only been 15 years since BTC came to the world. I'd say there has been impressive results within such a short amount of time. We've seen some countries going as far as accepting BTC as legal tender. Not only that, but institutional investors are also considering pouring lots of money into crypto.

With spot ETFs approved in the US and abroad, Bitcoin is on its way of replacing Fiat currencies in the future. Or at least, eliminate the need for paper money. Just buy, "hodl", and forget about the rest. Who knows if early adopters (like us) will strike it rich in the future? Just my thoughts Grin

cryptomaniac_xxx

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Quote from: Steph.A on December 18, 2023, 08:58:13 AM

Bitcoins and other cryptos will never become mainstream before... people can buy water bottles with them.

Quite simple, many expecting an explosive entropy of the bitcoin adoption / price but truth is the average folk most common needs and use of money aren't met by bitcoin, this fact goes against the very foundation of any successfully implemented mean of money anytime across recorded history. It really is a political problem at it's core, the deep states run by bankers won't let a viable alternative co-exist in the streets. I have no doubt that with truly liberal and free alien civilizations, the blockchain technology would have attained (for all purposes) universal adoption in a shorter time that the cryptos have been around by now here.

What are your takes about that sentiment?

I think it's too early to say that crypto will not become mainstream, of course cash is still king, but there are some countries that accepts bitcoin as a payment method and uses LN for that. But it seems that your argument though that bitcoin will be like replacing cash, it will not happen in my opinion. At least give bitcoin a decade to progress, we barely touches the surface as what it can do, and it is still in it's infancy and very young.

If we compare it to the internet, it's the same process, no one wanted to touch and adapt it. But when they realised it's potential, it suddenly exploded late 2000. Same thing with Google, and other technologies that were not adapted early, but now it is part of our lives.

legiteum

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Quote from: Abiky on January 03, 2024, 10:25:05 AM

I believe Blockchain development is much more complicated than the Internet itself. The reason it's taking a longer time than usual is because of the speculators. Money/greed has prevented crypto from achieving its full potential. If this keeps up, Blockchain tech won't be going anywhere.

I really hope developers put their attention on what matters most for the good of the industry. Maybe there's "light at the end of the tunnel"? Bitcoin has gone this far since its inception, so I'm confident it will deliver as promised in the long run. With low fees and reduced wait times, BTC might become the currency of the world. As long as it stays decentralized, there should be nothing to worry about.

Blockchain is just one technology area, and not even a very complicated one compared to say data routing. And there are thousands of technology areas like this driving the Internet.

How would "speculators" deter programmers from coming up with the code they need to write in order to make crypto viable as a means of mainstream value transfer? How is "greed" affecting what is a purely technical problem?

Developers absolutely have put their attention where it matters most for ten plus years and they have come up with nothing.

Maybe it's time to admit that crypto works great as a speculation instrument, but that's it.

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