Topic: Bitcoin's biggest problem is the language we use to describe it (Read 1386 times)
BTC mining is very simple word, everyone can understand the meaning
January 08, 2015, 09:13:26 AM
I don't think wallet security for the individual is the problem. Simply by encrypting and backing up a personal wallet, it becomes very safe. Hacks like That on Bitstamp are because it is a big target. An individual PC is not a big target and much less likely to be hacked.
January 08, 2015, 09:01:34 AM
Preferences are different. If you ask the whole population I bet most would prefer to feel their money is safe rather than their transactions completely anonymous. I know I do and I'm quite ordinary 
It's a choice and compromise between two incompatible needs.
It's a choice and compromise between two incompatible needs. January 08, 2015, 05:33:23 AM
When your valuables are stolen we report it to the police, we have a legal system to investigate the crime and an enforcement system to correct unlawful behavior by criminals. Through this system we can reclaim the lost property from the thieves if they are tried and found guilty.
This is a basic function of a judicial system.
Bitcoin is so infuriating because we can follow the stolen money but not reclaim it. THAT is the biggest threat to Bitcoin. Humans hate loosing their property/valuables more than anything. There are ample evidence for this in studies of risk management. Any system where thieves can't be stopped will be abandoned. It's easy to forget the main reason banks were invented was to safe keep peoples savings. The loans etc which our economy is based upon today is a secondary invention by a banker who realized all that stored money could be working for himself.
If there was a cryptocurrency that was different from bitcoin, decentralized but nonanonomous, where the sender and receiver were publicly known or at least could be identified, where if someone stole your coins you could both identify the thief and reclaim your funds, people would choose that currency over BTC every time. Anarchy and total anonymousness is not the preferred lifestyle of the majority of the population is my guess. To be able to secure your property is more important.
That is just wrong. Ask anybody: This is a basic function of a judicial system.
Bitcoin is so infuriating because we can follow the stolen money but not reclaim it. THAT is the biggest threat to Bitcoin. Humans hate loosing their property/valuables more than anything. There are ample evidence for this in studies of risk management. Any system where thieves can't be stopped will be abandoned. It's easy to forget the main reason banks were invented was to safe keep peoples savings. The loans etc which our economy is based upon today is a secondary invention by a banker who realized all that stored money could be working for himself.
If there was a cryptocurrency that was different from bitcoin, decentralized but nonanonomous, where the sender and receiver were publicly known or at least could be identified, where if someone stole your coins you could both identify the thief and reclaim your funds, people would choose that currency over BTC every time. Anarchy and total anonymousness is not the preferred lifestyle of the majority of the population is my guess. To be able to secure your property is more important.
Do you want that everybody can look at all your transactions you have ever made? Most people will say no.
Do you want that the government/courts can look at all your transactions you have ever made? There might be slightly less people, who say no.
I just had that discussion yesterday and the guy who proposed this complete transparency told us, that nearly everyone he talked to about this, disagreed with him.
January 08, 2015, 05:10:00 AM
When your valuables are stolen we report it to the police, we have a legal system to investigate the crime and an enforcement system to correct unlawful behavior by criminals. Through this system we can reclaim the lost property from the thieves if they are tried and found guilty.
This is a basic function of a judicial system.
Bitcoin is so infuriating because we can follow the stolen money but not reclaim it. THAT is the biggest threat to Bitcoin. Humans hate loosing their property/valuables more than anything. There are ample evidence for this in studies of risk management. Any system where thieves can't be stopped will be abandoned. It's easy to forget the main reason banks were invented was to safe keep peoples savings. The loans etc which our economy is based upon today is a secondary invention by a banker who realized all that stored money could be working for himself.
If there was a cryptocurrency that was different from bitcoin, decentralized but nonanonomous, where the sender and receiver were publicly known or at least could be identified, where if someone stole your coins you could both identify the thief and reclaim your funds, people would choose that currency over BTC every time. Anarchy and total anonymousness is not the preferred lifestyle of the majority of the population is my guess. To be able to secure your property is more important.
This is a basic function of a judicial system.
Bitcoin is so infuriating because we can follow the stolen money but not reclaim it. THAT is the biggest threat to Bitcoin. Humans hate loosing their property/valuables more than anything. There are ample evidence for this in studies of risk management. Any system where thieves can't be stopped will be abandoned. It's easy to forget the main reason banks were invented was to safe keep peoples savings. The loans etc which our economy is based upon today is a secondary invention by a banker who realized all that stored money could be working for himself.
If there was a cryptocurrency that was different from bitcoin, decentralized but nonanonomous, where the sender and receiver were publicly known or at least could be identified, where if someone stole your coins you could both identify the thief and reclaim your funds, people would choose that currency over BTC every time. Anarchy and total anonymousness is not the preferred lifestyle of the majority of the population is my guess. To be able to secure your property is more important.
January 08, 2015, 03:35:00 AM
I think another problem about Bitcoin is, that it is quite complex to understand why it is better than fiat.
While I agree with the central thesis of the OP, I disagree that it is complex to explain why it is better than fiat. The problem is that by and large, the populace has absolutely no idea what fiat really is.
If anyone understands fiat, you can tell them the most important reason that Bitcoin is better in one sentence:
Unlike fiat, Bitcoin is not at its core a system designed to slowly steal the entirety of real wealth of the populace at large, and put it in the pockets of international bankers, through the hidden tax called 'inflation'.
January 07, 2015, 04:44:28 PM
Money made by people, not by banks.
This goes into the wrong direction by creating a narrow and controverse association. I am looking for the correct and positive terms of the technology.
Mining is an example for an other narrow and misleading term as the Bitcoin created is the reward and not the technical purpose of the machines.
The technical purpose is to validate and order transactions. Therefore calling those machines e.g. stamper would be more appropriate.
Yes, engineers roll their eyes...
And assume "everyone" has a clean Linus install in a virtual machine on demand...
With a system set up to move money between hot/cold wallets.
Doesn't everyone here? Along with your 3rd party software that generates 44 char random keys? No?
But ordinary people are creeped out by geeks...
And want no part of the security nightmare that is crypto.
January 07, 2015, 04:15:07 PM
I think another problem about Bitcoin is, that it is quite complex to understand why it is better than fiat.
While I agree with the central thesis of the OP, I disagree that it is complex to explain why it is better than fiat. The problem is that by and large, the populace has absolutely no idea what fiat really is.
If anyone understands fiat, you can tell them the most important reason that Bitcoin is better in one sentence:
Unlike fiat, Bitcoin is not at its core a system designed to slowly steal the entirety of real wealth of the populace at large, and put it in the pockets of international bankers, through the hidden tax called 'inflation'.
January 07, 2015, 11:54:14 AM
I generally cop out with the "Magic internet money" explanation...
... but then I'm scarred from being "the" PC guru in the past, where after I'd worked miracles once, I was responsible for every dumb virus they managed to infect themselves with... the idea of being responsible for the same crowd's financial wellbeing gives me the shivers.
... but then I'm scarred from being "the" PC guru in the past, where after I'd worked miracles once, I was responsible for every dumb virus they managed to infect themselves with... the idea of being responsible for the same crowd's financial wellbeing gives me the shivers.
January 07, 2015, 11:45:42 AM
It appears to me that the language we use determines and limits the adoption of the block chain technology.
We often use words like: mining, payment, de-centralisation, trustless operation that lead to the perception we talk about some obscure virtual currency for speculation and a tool for illicit activity.
We often use words like: mining, payment, de-centralisation, trustless operation that lead to the perception we talk about some obscure virtual currency for speculation and a tool for illicit activity.
Words like 'payment' aren't exactly obscure and mining is a pretty simplified term of a complex process. Many people might not understand fiat or economics but its pretty easy to explain decentralization to them but I agree that we should try to find the easist and simplest terms to describe bitcoin to newcommers as to not put them off.
January 07, 2015, 11:33:55 AM
I've had to explain that the Blockchain is like a ledger that is kept up by people who provide processing power to the Bitcoin network. Sometimes they get a reward for doing so.
January 07, 2015, 08:03:28 AM
I tend to agree with Graou on this. Teminology is very important, for different reasons.
When I've held seminars to lawyers or other Bitcoin laymen I've found myself having to change the terminology to accurately describe the system.
A miner is not "mining bitcoin" its bookkeeping transactions. The reward is actually more like lottery tickets where every ten minutes a winner is found to have won 25 BTC. I often get questions about why then it has these gold digging metaphors. The problem is that nomenclature now is based on one single Bitcoin application, the virtual currency BTC, and thus when you try to move into other applications, like stocktrading, property shares or insurance, the words we use make no sense.
The second reason was formulated in an interview with Michael Jackson ex-COO at Skype http://cointelegraph.com/news/112572/skype-co-founder-and-ex-coo-people-need-to-speak-people-need-to-transact
He said on the lines of: If a technology looks like money, acts like money then it probably is money, and it will be treated by legislators like money. Shen Skype started they were very careful not to be called a digital phone service because phone companies were so regulated that it would have killed the app. The same goes for Bitcoin, it should never have been called a virtual currency, rather a decentralized ledger or transaction system. It transfers ownership of tokens in a ledger, not currency.
When I've held seminars to lawyers or other Bitcoin laymen I've found myself having to change the terminology to accurately describe the system.
A miner is not "mining bitcoin" its bookkeeping transactions. The reward is actually more like lottery tickets where every ten minutes a winner is found to have won 25 BTC. I often get questions about why then it has these gold digging metaphors. The problem is that nomenclature now is based on one single Bitcoin application, the virtual currency BTC, and thus when you try to move into other applications, like stocktrading, property shares or insurance, the words we use make no sense.
The second reason was formulated in an interview with Michael Jackson ex-COO at Skype http://cointelegraph.com/news/112572/skype-co-founder-and-ex-coo-people-need-to-speak-people-need-to-transact
He said on the lines of: If a technology looks like money, acts like money then it probably is money, and it will be treated by legislators like money. Shen Skype started they were very careful not to be called a digital phone service because phone companies were so regulated that it would have killed the app. The same goes for Bitcoin, it should never have been called a virtual currency, rather a decentralized ledger or transaction system. It transfers ownership of tokens in a ledger, not currency.
January 07, 2015, 07:57:36 AM
Bitcoin's biggest problem is wallet security. As has been pointed out elsewhere, if experts like Bitstamp can't secure their hot wallet then what hope is there for the ordinary man in the street?
Well Bitstamp do have the problem that they have to let people connect to their system in some way or form.
However, the solution to their problem is probably a solution to the Joe Sixpack problem, how to have a secure wallet in an untrustworthy computing environment.
January 07, 2015, 07:38:49 AM
Do you like Wittgenstein
January 07, 2015, 07:24:18 AM
I agree with solex. I don't think language is so important.
Personnaly, I don't really understand what http, ssl/tls, etc. etc. represent exactly but that doesn't prevent me from using firefox, google etc. to navigate over the internet.
I believe that most of the people don't understand the way the internet work but they still can use it. I think it will be the same with bitcoin. Once bitcoin is massively used by merchants and consumers with good and secure applications created by developpers, it is not important to understand the "internal side of bitcoin".
Actually, the things that really embarass people about bitcoin is the security and the volatility in my opinion. I discussed with a friend about bitcoin. And he told me it will never go far because it is too volatile and too complicated...
Personnaly, I don't really understand what http, ssl/tls, etc. etc. represent exactly but that doesn't prevent me from using firefox, google etc. to navigate over the internet.
I believe that most of the people don't understand the way the internet work but they still can use it. I think it will be the same with bitcoin. Once bitcoin is massively used by merchants and consumers with good and secure applications created by developpers, it is not important to understand the "internal side of bitcoin".
Actually, the things that really embarass people about bitcoin is the security and the volatility in my opinion. I discussed with a friend about bitcoin. And he told me it will never go far because it is too volatile and too complicated...
January 07, 2015, 06:36:53 AM
Nice article being written. When it comes to that, my main selling concerning my effort to promote bitcoin is basically by telling people how it can replace cross border transactions where you can move money fast and instantly from one place to another across the globe.
January 07, 2015, 06:28:51 AM
Not everyone have the same understanding about anything
January 07, 2015, 05:19:30 AM
I don't think language matters that much, and once it is out there it becomes hard to change.
It does matter a lot in my experience trying to sell the technology to investors and in enterprise use.
The language we currently use is largerly irrelevant as we are a tiny fraction of the population. Remember the discussion of Bitcoin vs bit.
You were at the forefront of the recognition that having 8 decimals does not resonate with average user. I gave you hints that it does not work well with finance too.
Moving to bit in the currency is good for adoption. I am looking for good choices to refer to block chain technology.
Indeed. I do remember our discussions about the 8 decimals, and your input on the financial system software was crucial.
I guess right now I am dismayed at how many Bitcoin companies (and individuals) are getting coins stolen. Even knowledgeable people who are being very careful about what they do.
I agree that "trustworthy computing" is a good term, and hopefully there are others.
January 07, 2015, 05:18:49 AM
I would argue that Bitcoins's biggest problem is actually distribution of wealth. I have even documented it here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-can-bitcoin-be-a-society-changer-with-current-distribution-of-wealth-916793 .
January 07, 2015, 05:00:18 AM
I don't think language matters that much, and once it is out there it becomes hard to change.
It does matter a lot in my experience trying to sell the technology to investors and in enterprise use.
The language we currently use is largerly irrelevant as we are a tiny fraction of the population. Remember the discussion of Bitcoin vs bit.
You were at the forefront of the recognition that having 8 decimals does not resonate with average user. I gave you hints that it does not work well with finance too.
Moving to bit in the currency is good for adoption. I am looking for good choices to refer to block chain technology.
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