Bitcoin's 'limted' supply lie - page 2.

BitcoinAshley

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

So op, by your logic, adding or removing the nickel or the ha-penny from circulation will affect the value of the U.S. dollar? If I remove the canadian nickel from circulation is everyone's canadian dollar worth more?
Grin

No one's addressing your argument becuase it's already been addressed hundreds of times whenever a troll brings it up. Still, gotta love how you act entitled to a thorough rebuttal despite being the 'n'th person to post about this in the last year. It's nearly effortless to debunk and if everyone knows the argument by heart, no one's going to bother to respond to you - instead, we'll just troll you back and make fun of you. Cry

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Tirapon on November 29, 2013, 09:45:17 PM

Quote from: notme on November 29, 2013, 08:48:54 PM

Quote from: Tirapon on November 29, 2013, 12:24:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piramida on November 29, 2013, 12:13:00 PM

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning Huh

Its the afternoon silly!

Open your eyes. There is a whole world outside of your little piece of Earth. It is always morning somewhere.

Lies! Your telling me its somehow different times in different places? Get out of here!

You caught me... I was just trollin Cheesy

Tirapon

hero member

Activity: 898

Merit: 1000

Quote from: notme on November 29, 2013, 08:48:54 PM

Quote from: Tirapon on November 29, 2013, 12:24:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piramida on November 29, 2013, 12:13:00 PM

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning Huh

Its the afternoon silly!

Open your eyes. There is a whole world outside of your little piece of Earth. It is always morning somewhere.

Lies! Your telling me its somehow different times in different places? Get out of here!

revans

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 09:24:27 PM

revans,

There's several more basic confusions to clear up.

Try this: http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf

No thanks. He's a Libertarian crackpot

Zangelbert Bingledack

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

revans,

There's several more basic confusions to clear up.

Try this: http://freedom-school.com/money/how-an-economy-grows.pdf

bitleif

sr. member

Activity: 351

Merit: 250

I'm always grumpy in the morning.

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 10:14:10 AM

[...] if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Yes.

Well ok, there's no formal definition of "sound money", but it stops being inflationary money if that's what you mean.

Does that answer your question?

notme

legendary

Activity: 1904

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Tirapon on November 29, 2013, 12:24:37 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piramida on November 29, 2013, 12:13:00 PM

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning Huh

Its the afternoon silly!

Open your eyes. There is a whole world outside of your little piece of Earth. It is always morning somewhere.

shmadz

legendary

Activity: 1512

Merit: 1000

@theshmadz

Quote from: bitcon on November 29, 2013, 07:56:54 PM

didnt the OP make this same exact post a week ago?

And here I thought this was all some kind of weird deja-vu.

Guess I'm not prescient after all. I Better go adjust my bids and asks, lol.

revans

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: ProfMac on November 29, 2013, 08:06:28 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 11:43:10 AM

Saying that there can only ever be 21 million Bitcoins is an empty scarcity argument, because the actual value of a Bitcoin is not yet settled by the market.

The 21 million is limited by the mining software. The USD / BTC exchange rate is not relevant to this.

Well, it is. The more value that accrues to a Bitcoin the greater the demand for subunits to fractionalise value. It's why Litecoin pisses the Bitcoiners off so much, because it is perceived to be preventing people buying satoshis, buyers instead preferring the perception of getting more for their money with Litecoin. The goal is to transition the speculation over to subunits so as to lower the price of speculating on Bitcoin and broaden the speculator base. It's why the press is inundated with fake Bitcoin stories, like the guy who lost his Bitcoin containing hard drive; 5 minutes research would show he has all the Bitcoins he ever did and it was simply sa way of getting a big news story in the press about Bitcoin. The whole thing is about manipulating people into conferring more and more value up the denominational chain.

ProfMac

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Activity: 1246

Merit: 1002

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 11:43:10 AM

Saying that there can only ever be 21 million Bitcoins is an empty scarcity argument, because the actual value of a Bitcoin is not yet settled by the market.

The 21 million is limited by the mining software. The USD / BTC exchange rate is not relevant to this.

bitcon

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Activity: 2212

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didnt the OP make this same exact post a week ago?

Zangelbert Bingledack

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Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 07:43:26 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 07:39:21 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 07:01:18 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 06:51:50 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 10:14:10 AM

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Since the scenario is that the USD has been restructured, there is no "dollar" anymore, just megadollars, so I assume you mean that each megadollar has the same purchasing power as $1 trillion in today's dollars (note this is something that can't be decreed but only decided by the market). If that's what you mean, then yes, it is entirely sound given the government is somehow guaranteed not to issue more than 21 million megadollars. You could buy Google for 0.1 megadollars, a mansion for 0.00001 megadollars, a decent house or Lambo for 0.0000001 megadollars, a nice TV for 0.000000001 megadollars, lunch for 0.00000000001 megadollars, and a gumball for 0.0000000000001 megadollars.

Oh no, there would still be dollars, like there are satoshis. It's just that a megadollar would be the top denomination like a Bitcoin is the top denomination. Now, you talk about the market deciding value. Where would Bitcoin be had it not leeched value from the very currencies its fans decry? All that mining hardware and other infrastructure, all the speculative capital. Bitcoin exists because it has assimilated value that people like you claim is non existent )because the dollar and other state fiat are worthless).

In that case, the government didn't really restructure the USD, just renamed the denominations. (Keep in mind a dollar (or a trillion-dollar bundle) is already infinitely divisible. There's just no practical way to pay less then a penny. But exchamges and such have been known to deal in smaller subdivisions internally.)

You have a piece of pie. Dice it, mince it, or liquefy it. It's still the same amount of pie.

bootlace

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Justice as a Service Infrastructure

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 07:01:18 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 06:51:50 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 10:14:10 AM

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Dude think about it this way: there are 10 equal shareholders of a company, if no new shares are handed then it doesn't matter if the 9 other share holders split their shares with their friends and whoever - you will still own the same portion of the total pie (this is bitcoin). However if new shares were created out of thin air and given to people so that now there is 20 people equally sharing that same pie - then now your share of the total pie has been diluted and what you own has decreased (this is the fiat system).

revans

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 07:39:21 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 07:01:18 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 06:51:50 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 10:14:10 AM

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Since the scenario is that the USD has been restructured, there is no "dollar" anymore, just megadollars, so I assume you mean that each megadollar has the same purchasing power as $1 trillion in today's dollars (note this is something that can't be decreed but only decided by the market). If that's what you mean, then yes, it is entirely sound given the government is somehow guaranteed not to issue more than 21 million megadollars. You could buy Google for 0.1 megadollars, a mansion for 0.00001 megadollars, a decent house or Lambo for 0.0000001 megadollars, a nice TV for 0.000000001 megadollars, lunch for 0.00000000001 megadollars, and a gumball for 0.0000000000001 megadollars.

Oh no, there would still be dollars, like there are satoshis. It's just that a megadollar would be the top denomination like a Bitcoin is the top denomination. Now, you talk about the market deciding value. Where would Bitcoin be had it not leeched value from the very currencies its fans decry? All that mining hardware and other infrastructure, all the speculative capital. Bitcoin exists because it has assimilated value that people like you claim is non existent )because the dollar and other state fiat are worthless).

Zangelbert Bingledack

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Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 07:01:18 PM

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 06:51:50 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 10:14:10 AM

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Since the scenario is that the USD has been restructured, there is no "dollar" anymore, just megadollars, so I assume you mean that each megadollar has the same purchasing power as $1 trillion in today's dollars (note this is something that can't be decreed but only decided by the market). If that's what you mean, then yes, it is entirely sound given the government is somehow guaranteed not to issue more than 21 million megadollars. You could buy Google for 0.1 megadollars, a mansion for 0.00001 megadollars, a decent house or Lambo for 0.0000001 megadollars, a nice TV for 0.000000001 megadollars, lunch for 0.00000000001 megadollars, and a gumball for 0.0000000000001 megadollars.

revans

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 250

Quote from: Zangelbert Bingledack on November 29, 2013, 06:51:50 PM

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 10:14:10 AM

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Regardless of the valuation of each megadollar? Let's say each megadollar was equal to 1 trillion USD? Still sound?

Zangelbert Bingledack

legendary

Activity: 1036

Merit: 1000

Quote from: revans on November 29, 2013, 10:14:10 AM

if the US treasury said that it was restructuring the USD such that there would be 21 million MegaDollars maximum, but that each of those MegaDollars could be dived up to infinity, does it suddenly become sound money?

Assuming their promise was credible (which is an insane assumption but for the sake of argument), yes! It would be as good as sound money. Divisibility makes absolutely no difference. Your 0.008 megadollars still represent a certain slice of the pie, no matter how finely you subdivide that slice.

Beans

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: Pente on November 29, 2013, 05:52:26 PM

Ok, tell me if I understand the question correctly paraphrased for fiat:

If I can buy a radio with a $20 bill and I go to the bank and break that $20 bill into twenty $1 bills, then can I buy 20 radios?

If I can buy a coke for $1 and go to the bank and turn that dollar into a hundred pennies, can I buy 100 cokes?

I think the OP wants you to explain how that's not correct. Have fun...

Pente

hero member

Activity: 528

Merit: 527

Ok, tell me if I understand the question correctly paraphrased for fiat:

If I can buy a radio with a $20 bill and I go to the bank and break that $20 bill into twenty $1 bills, then can I buy 20 radios?

If I can buy a coke for $1 and go to the bank and turn that dollar into a hundred pennies, can I buy 100 cokes?

Tirapon

hero member

Activity: 898

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: piramida on November 29, 2013, 12:13:00 PM

we are all a superposition of energy and information brightly burning for a shortest moment in the infinity of the endless emptiness.

This is exactly what I love to read in the morning. Today is off to a good start!

But it isn't the morning Huh

Its the afternoon silly!

Topic: Bitcoin's 'limted' supply lie - page 2. (Read 5047 times)