Topic: Bitcoin's real value - page 2. (Read 2961 times)

you are correct in implying 99,99% merchants do not have any incentives as to accept bitcoin as it is now.

why? because it is still considered an investment. not money.

regular sheeples are just not ready to use their smartphones to pay for anything. they are highly and rightfully scared that it would be a tool for tracking them even more, tax them and all the horrible things tptb wants to inforce for the future.

anyhow, the question is would you give up bitcoin's potential to overtake any quoted regular investment in terms of pricing, just for merchants to deal with a dollar/euro/yuan like *stable*currency? how could it reach new ath if people just keep spending them?

this is nonsens, i repeat, you can think of bitcoin as either an investment, that you hold for its trustles-ness, its term-deflation-ness, it's safe-haven-ness from all the banksters and their financial pile of shit, or something that you want to transact with on a daily basis.. but then it will never have a great valuation,  and chances are it would not even stabilize, because i'd argue it will just sink as a vulgar internet token. ~altcoin like.

I agree, that they don't always have the best deals, but when I bought The Witcher 3, I was on one of this sites, that compare prices and , as far as I remember, 2 Shops, which accepted Bitcoin, where in the Top 5.
When I did buy things for my raspberry pi, there suddenly was the option to pay with Bitcoin(not mentioned on the main page). When I bought a VPN-connection, I also paid with Bitcoin.
Maybe, you don't see the option to pay with Bitcoin, because you mainly buy from Amazon?

And if you want things set in stone, its odd that you'd pick an open source project where anyone can alter the code.  Maybe all the people who see Bitcoin as some private little club for money-worshipping elites should think more carefully about their next investment.



What if not all of us are completely obsessed with the fiat value of our bitcoins?



What if the real "value" isn't how much you can sell it for in fiat, but the potential it holds to change the world for the better by including everyone?



And I'm sure you'd like to keep it that way.



Okay, we get it, you think the sole purpose of all this is an investment to make you rich.  Good for you.  Oddly enough, not everyone agrees.



Translation:  "GTFO my chain, peasant"



If it's permissionless, why are you trying to tell us what to do?  Makes about as much sense as using an open source project when you want things set in stone.  A permissionless system doesn't suit your goal.  Again, choose your next investment more carefully.



Show me in the whitepaper where it says we have to have a 1MB limit for the sole purpose of making you wealthy.



How about you stop putting words in the miners' mouths and let them decide?  I think they're good enough at math to know that more transactions potentially equals more fees and higher revenues.



Clearly we have very different views on what the fundamental purpose of Bitcoin is.  I personally find your views quite repugnant.  But ultimately it doesn't matter what you or I think.  This is a numbers game.  We'll see who has the greater numbers at the end of it all.  I suspect the answer is obvious, though.  If you want Bitcoin to benefit a small minority more than it benefits the majority, the problem with that is that the majority will be against you.

Strange.... I do 90% of my shoping online and has never seen a merchant accepting bitcoins. Might be because i never search for merchants who accept them but search for those who give me the best deals.

Fact is that you are lucky to even hear about bitcoin if you dont search for it. It is almost never in the news and not talked about among people. Only once this year i have seen an news article about bitcoin and it was only about the blockchain and not the currency.

Bitcoin is kept alive by a small number of people who think bitcoin is much larger than it is. At the moment it is just a beta test of the blockchain tech. Nothing else.

That is just wrong. I stumbled over merchants, who accept Bitcoin many times, even if it just a small percentage of all the merchants in the world.

And we would not be able to fix bugs.
Anybody who says, we should set things in stone, has no idea how anything works. History shows that every culture, who did something like that, had their downfall.

There was poured billions into worthless internet companies in the early days of internet. Had thos companies value?

Ponzi and pyramid schemes are based on people pouring in money. Do they have value?


The idea that bitcoin has a real value at the moment is absurd. Its just a "handfull" group of people who know about it and it is useless for the most part. If you dont search activly for places to use your bitcoins you are likely to never find a merchant who accepts them.

Okay then, we'll go back to the original implementation of Bitcoin that had a 33.5MB blocksize.  Satoshi subjected the network to a pretty major modification to the rules when he introduced the 1MB limit. 

Bitcoin has value, it's just that there are not enough merchants to cater your needs that's why you deem it as worthless. Also, it is wrong to say that this technology is worthless or whatsoever because billions of dollars are poured into it.

i dont know any currency which is usable with any merchant. so no currency has value?

IMHO bitcoin has much more real value than any other currency:
 - "be your own bank"
 - fast transfers anywhere you like

that kind of freedom and has more value to me than anything else

no bitcoin is not real value.
i cannot use any where any time or any merchants bitcoin. All merchants not accept bitcoin so it is not real value

You got me thinking right in here. Of course, people would still care about the money after all even if supporting a nice cause. You cannot expect people to just throw away money to "support" something which is highly unstable and can be easily shattered by dramas. They can buy and buy to support bitcoin but that alone wouldn't be enough to at least help bitcoin be stable.

I could not agree with you more on the fighting for scalability being fruitless, if this fight devide the community and affectively kill the coin. The scarsity alone should be the driving force behind the principle and not the

mainstream adaption for daily trade.

The only problem with this scenario is the utility factor of the currency gives it more value than the currency alone. You do not want to hodl something with value, if the demand for it will decline... if it cannot be used for

something other than a store of value.

Gold for instance cannot be used as a currency anymore due to it's rarity... demand for it did not decline, but it would have been more rare, if it was used as a currency... We would not have seen such a poor dollar value, if

it was still linked to gold.

Nothing gets valuable just because it is scarce. The good and scarce thing you can think of is valuable because is has some use and as a bonus it is scarce. Bitcoins value is fueled by some religious belife that it will change the economy and early adopters will get rich. Without that foundation bitcoin has nothing to offer.

Making a rock solid economy based on bitcoin is a fail. Just see the forum cry for sathoshi to come and save us. The belife in bitcoin crumble as soon as the messiah is gone.

Amen brother!
You're absolutely right.

There is no literal price for Bitcoin ...any value that people predict is just a prediction dosent matter even if it is based on facts ,because who knows how the market will react in the near future.

They are about as 0.0000000001% useful as bitcoins. These 1893-O Morgan Dollars can't be used for micropayments, online trading, conducting international business, instant worldwide transactions, and is by no means a frictionless, independent, universal form of money.

Scarcity only means something relative to it's usefulness. Which is pretty much zero with 1893-O Morgan Dollars.

Price decline always brings a lot of fear with it.. Just proves once again that we are not in bed with investor type people but with get rich fast people that get out at the first hint of trouble..

scarcity implies value. as for every good thing in the world, good cars etc, the less generally implies the more expensive (ever seen a dish in gastronomical restaurant? friggin ridiculous XD).

but 21 million coin is not so much, anyway, and we'll have to deal with it.

gold is different as it has been around and globally used for the last 2 milleniums or even more.

remember bitcoin has only been here for the last 5 years so you imho you have to be very clear as to what bring some value to it.

obviously it is not physical, you cant touch it, wear it etc..

but if bitcoin's foundation is rock solid, you could build the next generation of financial tools and vehicules, just the same they tried to do with gold and Bretton Woods..

and we all know the story of how they ended up breaking this deal, because banksters wanted more.. more paper money, more control, more lies and deceit as to the dollar's *real* value.

even gold now is just mostly paper, with its price highly subject to manipulation, because its actually FED's printers n°1 ennemy. if they have most of it worldwide physically it is not for nothing.

but dont let that happen with bitcoin!

I liked your post, your bring some serious points in that text. But I want to ask you something as you said that we need to defend bitcoin.
And how exactly single bitcoin user - not associated in any organisation, not miner, not techie, just nobody - can do to defend bitcoin?

I kinda agree with you on some point but what do you propose as alternative to fiat money for day to day spending? 

Most people say that the market is volatile because it is still small which is true to some extent but i also think what makes it volatile is that it is unclear if bitcoin is a store of value or a currency and as a result people speculate on this.

There's also another question that comes to mind : can something be scarce only without any useful properties and still be a good store of value? take gold for instance, what if gold wasn't useful for anything( ie jellewery,etc) would it still be a good store of value?