Bitcoin's transaction fee lowered by 4000%

Artemis3

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Quote from: fiulpro on February 23, 2020, 05:30:54 AM

I would say the fee is , the fee was still the same , it is never dependent on the amount of bitcoins you are sending , you could have been sending only 1% more then the fee itself and the price will stay the same still.
It is an average , but if we are talking about the everyday matters , it is still not less , the amount is still the same.
SegWit and Lightning did reduce some but at the same time when you try and send BTC from a normal address to these or vice versa , you actually have to pay the same :')

It does to a smaller extent, larger sums probably come from more sources than smaller sums, and the more inputs the higher the fee.

Still, you shouldn't be worrying about it, if you manually use the smallest fee (1 sat/B) you would always be paying a fee in cents. Whats the hurry? Check back tomorrow...

Just don't let the wallet decide the fee for you and you will never have to worry about "high fees" ever again. Besides, them wallets can be fooled easily by doing that network guessing at the wrong moment, such as when an exchange decides to move stuff around...

Just don't. 1 sat/B is good for most situations, plan ahead, most transactions don't need "Lightning".

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Quote from: fiulpro on February 23, 2020, 05:30:54 AM

I would say the fee is , the fee was still the same , it is never dependent on the amount of bitcoins you are sending , you could have been sending only 1% more then the fee itself and the price will stay the same still.
It is an average , but if we are talking about the everyday matters , it is still not less , the amount is still the same.
SegWit and Lightning did reduce some but at the same time when you try and send BTC from a normal address to these or vice versa , you actually have to pay the same :')

transaction fees will always remain the same from year to year it's just that the exchange value is different because the exchange value of bitcoin which always has an up and down movement so that when compared with 2017 when bitcoin prices still touch $20k the transaction fee will expensive because of the increased exchange value.

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Quote from: darewaller on February 23, 2020, 04:49:59 AM

Bitpay charges heavy duty for each platform. Even if we have to pay a invoice which is less than $10, we would have to pay the same heavy fees for the same transaction. This actually makes a lot of people to stop using bitpay only because they lose more than they earn in fees.

But, I do not really think that this might be the case in the coming times. Bitcoin halving is about to reduce the transaction fees by 50% and hence bitpay too has to consider this in order to stay in the market or else none of the people might ever go for bitpay if they have the same fees even after the halving process is completed. There is no problem for us to pay some fees if the transaction is in huge sum but for minor transactions, I personally hate paying such fees.

Well yeah, the network fee that BitPay charges is per transaction, regardless of amount, or eventual size of tx (since you still have to pay the actual miner fee), but the thing is, because of the way its algorithm overestimates the fee required for next-block confirmation (which is the only way to get your invoice paid, other than to have no RBF or double spend detection), you're also forced to pay really high miner fees.

And because it's the merchant that uses BitPay, I have to keep using it.

On the other hand, BP's use of invoice makes it quite easy for refund as I've found...

Also, halving doesn't reduce tx fees at all. You sure you understand what btc halving is?

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I would say the fee is , the fee was still the same , it is never dependent on the amount of bitcoins you are sending , you could have been sending only 1% more then the fee itself and the price will stay the same still.
It is an average , but if we are talking about the everyday matters , it is still not less , the amount is still the same.
SegWit and Lightning did reduce some but at the same time when you try and send BTC from a normal address to these or vice versa , you actually have to pay the same :')

darewaller

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Quote from: buwaytress on February 20, 2020, 03:57:50 AM

Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 19, 2020, 05:20:22 PM

Quote from: buwaytress on February 19, 2020, 11:07:54 AM

Is Vays using Bitpay all the time ... ?

it's true, bitpay is ridiculous. i was buying a gift card yesterday through the bitpay wallet and they tried to charge me > 0.0002 BTC (> $2) in network+miner fees. if there is a very small increase in network congestion, they exponentially increases the required fees.

i imported my seed into electrum and saved by shopping elsewhere. it's too bad reliable amazon gift card vendors are becoming so hard to find.

Yeah, seriously. I never really pay attention to all these influencers but when I happen to read their stuff like I am now, I have to wonder. If these guys are all bitcoin experts, and they're actually making knowledge of this their living and getting income from all this, how is it they're still massively overpaying fees, for example, or talking in dollars and cents instead of satoshi, therefore failing to give anyone actual context?

I use Bitpay too, quite regularly actually, because food delivery in my place accepts btc but through that. Have a specific wallet just for it too, that has RBF unchecked and single inputs cause I know these guys overcharge but I know that's BitPay charging excessively and not Bitcoin fees being "too high".

Bitpay charges heavy duty for each platform. Even if we have to pay a invoice which is less than $10, we would have to pay the same heavy fees for the same transaction. This actually makes a lot of people to stop using bitpay only because they lose more than they earn in fees.

But, I do not really think that this might be the case in the coming times. Bitcoin halving is about to reduce the transaction fees by 50% and hence bitpay too has to consider this in order to stay in the market or else none of the people might ever go for bitpay if they have the same fees even after the halving process is completed. There is no problem for us to pay some fees if the transaction is in huge sum but for minor transactions, I personally hate paying such fees.

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Quote from: shoreno on February 20, 2020, 12:45:36 PM

demand for btc on the year 2017 is much bigger than compare to the demand today . i can prove that if you take a look at the price . price now is only at 10k max but prices back then are at 18 to 20k usd . that is the reason why you see decline on the fees but i agree that segwit and batching helps because people could be using it which means lesser traffic on the traditional sending of btc . i know that if a network is congested , the fee are also becoming high because miners only prioritize bigger fees ,

Yes, segwit is a reason, price has vastly dropped of bitcoin compared to what is was in the 2017 it is true that that reducing the fee of transactions will attract more user to use bitcoins and use it to transact money. I think the price dropped because of the increase of users when many countries attempt to banning BTC, but for the bitcoin lovers out there reducing the fee this much will be a good decision in favor of them.

konfuzius5278

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The demand can not be the same.
If 4 times more TX per block (and thats not realistic) it would cause 5 Dollar instead of 20.
Believe me if demand is high enough fee will be very high again

shoreno

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demand for btc on the year 2017 is much bigger than compare to the demand today . i can prove that if you take a look at the price . price now is only at 10k max but prices back then are at 18 to 20k usd . that is the reason why you see decline on the fees but i agree that segwit and batching helps because people could be using it which means lesser traffic on the traditional sending of btc . i know that if a network is congested , the fee are also becoming high because miners only prioritize bigger fees ,

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Quote from: WilderX on February 19, 2020, 06:11:13 AM

5. We have Satoshi. Craig Wrigth. Nuff said.

You lucky, lucky, lucky thing so you are. O the envy I feel.

Quote from: bilalaura on February 20, 2020, 04:13:51 AM

So all of that means that segwit had nothing to do with lower fees?

Of course it does. It allows more transactions in every block. That reduces fee pressure. It doesn't eliminate it but there's that much more headroom than there was before.

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 19, 2020, 05:20:22 PM

Quote from: buwaytress on February 19, 2020, 11:07:54 AM

Is Vays using Bitpay all the time ... ?

it's true, bitpay is ridiculous. i was buying a gift card yesterday through the bitpay wallet and they tried to charge me > 0.0002 BTC (> $2) in network+miner fees. if there is a very small increase in network congestion, they exponentially increases the required fees.

i imported my seed into electrum and saved by shopping elsewhere. it's too bad reliable amazon gift card vendors are becoming so hard to find.

The only reason why it is getting difficult to find amazon gift card vendors is because of this huge fees they need to pay for each transaction. There are wallets which charge minimum fees and why shouldn't we consider using them rather than going for some platforms which usually charge heavy fees as compared to the current mining difficulty?

As far as I know BitPay, they keep a constant fees no matter what the difficulty level is for mining. This might usually get your transaction confirmed a bit sooner but you have to pay for it. I never pay any invoices on bitpay only because of the fees. I find some other wallets reliable for myself.

bilalaura

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So all of that means that segwit had nothing to do with lower fees?

buwaytress

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on February 19, 2020, 05:20:22 PM

Quote from: buwaytress on February 19, 2020, 11:07:54 AM

Is Vays using Bitpay all the time ... ?

it's true, bitpay is ridiculous. i was buying a gift card yesterday through the bitpay wallet and they tried to charge me > 0.0002 BTC (> $2) in network+miner fees. if there is a very small increase in network congestion, they exponentially increases the required fees.

i imported my seed into electrum and saved by shopping elsewhere. it's too bad reliable amazon gift card vendors are becoming so hard to find.

Yeah, seriously. I never really pay attention to all these influencers but when I happen to read their stuff like I am now, I have to wonder. If these guys are all bitcoin experts, and they're actually making knowledge of this their living and getting income from all this, how is it they're still massively overpaying fees, for example, or talking in dollars and cents instead of satoshi, therefore failing to give anyone actual context?

I use Bitpay too, quite regularly actually, because food delivery in my place accepts btc but through that. Have a specific wallet just for it too, that has RBF unchecked and single inputs cause I know these guys overcharge but I know that's BitPay charging excessively and not Bitcoin fees being "too high".

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Quote from: buwaytress on February 19, 2020, 11:07:54 AM

Is Vays using Bitpay all the time ... ?

it's true, bitpay is ridiculous. i was buying a gift card yesterday through the bitpay wallet and they tried to charge me > 0.0002 BTC (> $2) in network+miner fees. if there is a very small increase in network congestion, they exponentially increases the required fees.

i imported my seed into electrum and saved by shopping elsewhere. it's too bad reliable amazon gift card vendors are becoming so hard to find.

buwaytress

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My first question to guys like these are (and he's saying he is only paying 50 cents now as compared to $20 a year ago) is, Tone Vays, what the hell are you paying 5,000 satoshi fees for?

And agree with pooya, these influencers always rub me off the wrong way because they insist on talking cents and dollars which simply doesn't give you any context of BTC price.

I pay, when consolidating (so that's >10 inputs usually) still a lot less than 5000 sats.

On a normal tx, I'm paying little more than 120 sats... 1.2 cents. OK, so like 2 days ago I wanted to get a tx asap so I spent 10 times my normal fee (10 sats/byte) and that still ended up little more than 10 cents for next-block confirmation.

Is Vays using Bitpay all the time or does he just arbitrary say to miners, here's 50 cents?

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Quote from: pooya87 on February 17, 2020, 07:08:38 AM

you are making a couple of additional mistakes too. when speaking of transaction fees you must never talk about them "per transaction" because it doesn't make any sense that way. instead you must always talk about them in terms of "per byte" or more accurately "per virtual bytes".

Digging deeper even the number of tx might be irrelevant in some cases..
We can have 1000 tx with a single output and 20 transactions each 100 outputs from exchanges batching their withdrawals.

Coinbase for example, when they finally started doing that they cut their outgoing tx by 20, so probably a better way to look at what is happening right now with transactions in the chain is to look at active addresses in the last 24h and number of outputs.

Outputs:

Transactions:

Based on the number of tx 2018 was the peak, based on outputs it was reached in 2019.

le:

Bitcoin:
Transactions last 24h 321,096
Active Addresses last 24h 682,080

Shitoshi Failure:
Transactions last 24h 565,839
Active Addresses last 24h 31,743
Median Transaction Value 0.0026 BSV ($0.797 USD)

WilderX

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LOL you guys are hilarious!!! BTC tx fee ONLY 0.50$ LMAO

1. The real Bitcoin that is Bitcoin Satoshi Vision is already 1500 times cheaper in tx's
2. Can scale to VISA level transactions levels and beyond
3. BSV blockchain usage has already SUPERCEEDED BTC. (see below graphs).
4. Fees in BSV network are only going down as usage grows!!! (see below graphs).
5. We have Satoshi. Craig Wrigth. Nuff said.

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Quote from: Questat on February 18, 2020, 07:26:18 AM

The last time I noticed the transaction fee is so high was only during the bull run, so basically we are not yet in a bull run right now and we might see this abnormal increase of miner's fee if the bull run will come.

actually I didn't notice that decrease of fees, in the past few months, my transaction fee was just around .50 usd to 1 usd, using the highest fee transaction with my electrum wallet.

Well, in all honesty, it's very rare for me to use a high fee... Usually, i manually edit my fees, and the last couple of months it only happened once or twice that i chose a fee > 1 sat/byte. High fees are only necessary when you buy an item from a shop that uses a gateway like bitpay, and they force your transaction to be confirmed in 1 or 2 hours. If you are sending funds to other peers, or to your own wallet, a low fee is more than enough.

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The last time I noticed the transaction fee is so high was only during the bull run, so basically we are not yet in a bull run right now and we might see this abnormal increase of miner's fee if the bull run will come.

actually I didn't notice that decrease of fees, in the past few months, my transaction fee was just around .50 usd to 1 usd, using the highest fee transaction with my electrum wallet.

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Quote from: TheGreatPython on February 18, 2020, 03:06:21 AM

But, one of my friends paid up to $7 for a transaction as of recent. I couldn’t really tell why he was charged that much for a transaction I know for sure that I would have paid less and the reason he gave that caused it isn’t I am going to believe easily.

He claimed its because he received too many micro transactions and that’s why the fees he had to pay increased. He’s a retailer and he receives a lot if cryptocurrencyevery day and he also sends out a lot. So he claimed it was as a result of that, but I told him it had nothing to do with the fees, or maybe it’s true? Huh

His analysis is probably true... Loads of micro transactions = loads of unspent outputs.
If you spend these unspent outputs (so use them as an input), you'll end up with a big transaction (in size), so you'll have to pay a big fee in order to entice a miner to put this transaction into the block he/she is trying to solve.

You can play around with this wizard for a while if you want to run some simulations: https://coinb.in/#fees
You'll see the wizard NEVER asks about the monetary value of the transaction you're creating. The only things that determine the fee are the number of inputs, the number of outputs, which kind of addresses were funded with the inputs and which kinds of addresses you're funding with the outputs... That's all

At current optimal feerate, it was probably a transaction with ~50 inputs and ~2 outputs, unless he's using more "exotic" addresses, like multisig's, timelocked, p2sh's,... It doesn't matter if he was transacting $70000 or $70, a transaction with ~50 "normal" inputs and ~2 "normal" outputs would cost around ~$7 in fees

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But, one of my friends paid up to $7 for a transaction as of recent. I couldn’t really tell why he was charged that much for a transaction I know for sure that I would have paid less and the reason he gave that caused it isn’t I am going to believe easily.

He claimed its because he received too many micro transactions and that’s why the fees he had to pay increased. He’s a retailer and he receives a lot if cryptocurrencyevery day and he also sends out a lot. So he claimed it was as a result of that, but I told him it had nothing to do with the fees, or maybe it’s true? Huh

Topic: Bitcoin's transaction fee lowered by 4000% (Read 709 times)