Topic: Bitcoins users are what is holding Bitcoin back (Read 1840 times)

yep and as the title says bitcoin users are what is holding Bitcoin back, because it needs users to build the infrastructure

and if you want your local store to accept bitcoin.. dont wait for the magic fairy tales of rich dudes on horses to come riding into your town.
go to your local independant store and talk to them about bitcoin, costs nothing to talk

Right now the price of Bitcoin to fiat is all that matters, for most people on a tight budget they will do what's best for now. People need a better alternative to move to Bitcoin immediately, where they will see the benefits straight away not in 5 or 10 years.

Using bitcoin as a store of value is fair enough but it would flourish as a currency and grow significantly more.

all im hearing from you is benefits of a FIAT price rise.
im guessing you are not thinking of the benefits of how many loaves of bread you can buy... and only thinking of the fiat you can grab. and not realising fiat wont buy you as much bread

in short.. if you can get your local store to accept bitcoin. you wont care about the fiat price because you just hand over bitcoin to the merchant.
eg now buy 3 loaves of bread for 0.01btc and in the future get more loaves of bread for your 0.01btc without even caring what the fiat valuation is. without needing to find a way to cash out to then buy bread with fiat.
you benefit by not having to care about negative fiat interest rate.
you benefit by not having to care about banker booms and busts.
you benefit by not having to care about banks losing your retirement.

but if all you care about is the fiat price so one day you can cash out and hold onto fiat.. then your missing the point of bitcoin totally

This goes for any business of course but that's not the point. The point is if I and lots of other people started businesses with the aims of promoting Bitcoin and getting more users and were successful I would only benefit by making a profit - I don't need Bitcoin to do this and I don't have enough Bitcoin to benefit from a big price rise. The main benefactors of this would be the big holders of Bitcoin if the prise rose, therefore the only way Bitcoin can gain traction quickly is if these users and these users alone used their Bitcoin to pay others to provide services for the advancement of Bitcoin.

I have to say I'm amazed at how you seem to be completely unaware of the self-centeredness of your logic. The sense of entitlement in your comments is blatant and yet your tone is one of righteousness rather than self-righteousness  
No doctrine, no matter how entrenched, can survive the test of time unchanged, you constantly have to make amendments to reflect new understanding.
Bitcoin adds to the system, its benefits are system-wide. A few will profit the most but that's just how the human world works.

The people that will directly benefit from promoting Bitcoin to retailers and service providers are the holders of Bitcoin - more users the price rises.

The very decentralised nature of Bitcoin means that people have to go out of their own way to promote Bitcoin off their own back seeing no return - this is not a good use of time.

I, for example, am in sales, I work for companies all over the world on a freelance basis - I would love to promote Bitcoin in a sales role calling around retailers getting them to accept Bitcoin but whose going to pay me to do this? I can't do it for free - if I had enough Bitcoin to bank on the price doubling then OK but I have less than 5 BTC currently so the price would need to multiply hugely just to cover a year of living expenses.

There is no central pot to pay people to provide services to further Bitcoin - going back to my original post Bitcoin users are holding Bitcoin back - I'm referring to the big users, they need to invest in furthering Bitcoin because there is no one else to do this.

I think my point about escrow has been taken out of context.

is because PEOPLE started businesses
so join them.. risk the most by talking to people and start a business (cost is negligible even for the unemployed) then work in the hopes of getting paid. rather then get paid in the hopes of getting work

Perhaps you didn't get my point - you don't need to promote the dollar for people to use it as they already do. Bitcoin needs promotion, however people need paying to promote it whether they are payed in Bitcoin or any other currency. The only people that will benefit from Bitcoin being more widely accepted (financially) are the big (and to a lesser extent small) Bitcoin holders. As with any business the ones that stand to make the most have to risk the most.

bitcoin is a currency.. not a business
dollar is a currency.. not a business

dollar doesnt have a pot for you to promote dollar.. people need to create businesses and offer services to earn their dollar

core are doing fine. they set up a business(blockstream) and have contracts to help code altcoins for private companies (insurance and banks) and allowing them time to code bitcoin on the side.

i digressed, so lets highlight the 2 businesses you mentioned.. escrows and payment gateways.

you dont need bitcoin to start these businesses.
because for payment gateways, retailers GIVE you the bitcoin, you sell 99% of it to give fiat to the retailer, you keep 1%
because for escrow services, buyers GIVE you the bitcoin, you hold it and later give 99% of it to the seller, you keep 1%

no one is asking anyone to get on a plane and spend wild amounts of cash to get a retailer to use bitcoin. but if you want your local shop
to accept bitcoin then next time you shop at your local shop (no extra cost) introduce them to bitcoin.
its like any job. you never get pre-paid.
you do some work and get paid at the end of the week or month..
dont do the work, dont get paid you get sacked.

if you want to get paid in bitcoin you need to do the work.
many people have been successful setting up their own payment gateways and escrow services..
its just NOT automatically handed to them on a plate, prefunded. all wrapped up in coded heaven

The people that will directly benefit from promoting Bitcoin to retailers and service providers are the holders of Bitcoin - more users the price rises.

The very decentralised nature of Bitcoin means that people have to go out of their own way to promote Bitcoin off their own back seeing no return - this is not a good use of time.

I, for example, am in sales, I work for companies all over the world on a freelance basis - I would love to promote Bitcoin in a sales role calling around retailers getting them to accept Bitcoin but whose going to pay me to do this? I can't do it for free - if I had enough Bitcoin to bank on the price doubling then OK but I have less than 5 BTC currently so the price would need to multiply hugely just to cover a year of living expenses.

There is no central pot to pay people to provide services to further Bitcoin - going back to my original post Bitcoin users are holding Bitcoin back - I'm referring to the big users, they need to invest in furthering Bitcoin because there is no one else to do this.

I think my point about escrow has been taken out of context.

the code of bitcoin will not grow legs, walk into your local town and ask your local retailer to accept it.
without HUMANS getting off their ass and doing something to ask retailers in their town to accept bitcoin, users will just be waiting forever for some unicorn magic to speed up mass adoption so they can have a full bitcoin lifestyle, as oppose to an occasional use.

Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

The statement is more general but since you singled out the argument to only about escrow then let us focus on it. Escrow services = infrastructure. That is what I was trying to say. For Bitcoin to go smoothly from one hand to another without any problems of scamming from the payee and the payer, we need effective infrastructure to be made. Also yes I am aware that Bitcoin is not an AI and it cannot program its own escrow, but remember Bitcoin was also coded by a human, set up by a human and as you said humans need to vet other humans. So building more code on top of the Bitcoin protocol to make it run more effectively is needed. Isn't it the whole idea?

if the problem is simply escrow
the answer is that as a human. a human needs to set up an escrow service. a human needs to code an escrow service. a human needs to vet other humans.
bitcoin is just code. its the human need for humans to do things when interacting with humans that is the problem

humans=users

bitcoin is not an A.I, it cannot program its own escrow. it cannot have eyes or feet to deliver goods on users behalf to ensure its received.

If you think about this it is pretty obvious that the mind set and mentality of the majority of Bitcoins users is what is holding Bitcoin back and what could be the downfall of Bitcoin in the long run.

Everyone is so scared of being scammed and go to great lengths to try and 'help' others not to get scammed that it makes Bitcoin an unattractive payment method for shops to accept. Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

Also the method of buying Bitcoin is tedious at best. Until we can effortlessly buy Bitcoin with a credit card - without having to make an account at an exchange, Bitcoin will not reach its full potential, I know I have spoken to friends who don't touch Bitcoin as they cant buy it as they could gold for example.

Until Bitcoin is treated like any other currency or commodity it will not become what it should be.

Stop holding it back, a few people being scammed (usually down to their own stupidity) is and can be for the greater good. I not talking about blatant theft, if someone buys Bitcoin from a new member, with no history, no trust and no proof then it is their fault.

In your whole post I cannot see how it is the Bitcoin users' fault and how they are holding it back. Escrow is a necessity to avoid getting scammed because there is a lack of effective infrastructure to make payments online with Bitcoin to go more smoothly without payee or the payer being scammed. The lack of infrastructure is not the users' fault. The same with buying Bitcoins, the infrastructure available is already good but it is still lacking.

If you also mean that it is the users' fault that Bitcoin is being held back because they are hoarding it, you are barking on the wrong tree. Look at the Bitcoin rich list and blame them. The ordinary users usually do not own more than $5000 worth of Bitcoins.

If you think about this it is pretty obvious that the mind set and mentality of the majority of Bitcoins users is what is holding Bitcoin back and what could be the downfall of Bitcoin in the long run.

Everyone is so scared of being scammed and go to great lengths to try and 'help' others not to get scammed that it makes Bitcoin an unattractive payment method for shops to accept. Escrow is one of the most absurd things about Bitcoin - what happened to buyer beware? Now it is seller AND buyer beware as you still can't fully trust the escrow. While I accept that if I want to sell something as a new member I have to use escrow - fine for cheap items, I would not risk selling something expensive and sending it to the buyer until the funds were firmly in my possession, this is how it has always been and how it should remain. The buyer should be the one to take on the risk - they can decide not to do this and move on, that is also fine but the buyer should not be able to dictate terms to the seller, it should be the other way around. The buyer is not forced to buy.

Also the method of buying Bitcoin is tedious at best. Until we can effortlessly buy Bitcoin with a credit card - without having to make an account at an exchange, Bitcoin will not reach its full potential, I know I have spoken to friends who don't touch Bitcoin as they cant buy it as they could gold for example.

Until Bitcoin is treated like any other currency or commodity it will not become what it should be.

Stop holding it back, a few people being scammed (usually down to their own stupidity) is and can be for the greater good. I not talking about blatant theft, if someone buys Bitcoin from a new member, with no history, no trust and no proof then it is their fault.