Bitcointalk own Casino complaint panel - page 2.

robelneo

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on June 30, 2023, 04:50:07 PM

There are a few non biased people I've seen comment in the scam accusation section, but what happens if we have a panel of judges on here? Possible corruption could happen and the "judges" might be able to be bought either by the casino or by the accuser. If we could keep the corruption out of it then it might be a good idea, but I don't think it's going to happen.

I agree the scam section should be free and independent, it should depend on every member's perspective and analysis, if the majority are agreeing that the accusation is legit and not true and the evidence is obvious then we can have a clear idea of who's telling the truth, let both parties bring their issues to other platforms and let us just remain free from expressing our opinion.

There is an added responsibility for every judge or panel here people may think that they are conniving, you cannot please everybody when you are the judge, especially in cases about casinos and I don't think anybody here wants to be in that position.

noorman0

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

-snip-
Most of the time we recommend to move the case on Askgambler to have a mediator for the case.

Ofcourse, Askgambler (recognized by almost all casino companies) is indeed oriented towards advice & complaint services which may already have complete facilities, such as connections or recommendations to several law firms for serious cases.

Users of these forums have different capabilities for running such mediation panels. Also most casinos don't trust pseudonymous people without a clear preference of proficiency to seek a solution that is considered fair.

komisariatku

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

~cut~
What if we have our own group of trusted user that can act as mediator to look on the case. We have a lot of talented and respectable user here that capable on handling the situation while most the casino representative has a close contact on campaign manager here.

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

I think bitcointalk has nothing to do with them, they only use the forum as a promotional medium so what happens inside and outside the forum is their responsibility. Indeed forums are often used as a medium for problems that occur, but this is done by members of the forum and is not the responsibility of the forum

If you want to create threads for problem resolution between gambling sites and gamblers, that is allowed and it is your responsibility to manage that thread. I think it's a difficult task, if you are able to do it maybe it will be good. But most cases are in a gray area, sometimes there is no evidence or a lack of evidence, so we don't know for sure who is guilty.

Strongkored

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this?

The idea is good, but the implementation probably won't go as well as hoped because just as a casino receives accusations of cheating so the panel of this forum can get accusations of cheating too, so it will actually be difficult to fully support both the casino and the players other than the two halves discussing to find a resolution of any accusations that occurred.
And actually it will really depend on the members who will be the panel members whether they are willing to do it, because this requires effort that is not easy and it will also take time, and I suspect they will not be willing to do it because it will increase suspicion to them, so what can done only pushing the casino to answer the accusations but the settlement will depend on the casino.

btc_angela

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on June 30, 2023, 04:50:07 PM

There are a few non biased people I've seen comment in the scam accusation section, but what happens if we have a panel of judges on here? Possible corruption could happen and the "judges" might be able to be bought either by the casino or by the accuser. If we could keep the corruption out of it then it might be a good idea, but I don't think it's going to happen.

And even if there are no corruptions, once that supposedly trusted members leans toward the casino, then there could be a lot of accusations on him/her and there could be members who think that he is biased.

And I guess no one is qualified here to be a so called judge, specially if they haven't been in the business itself but just a regular player or even non players per se. So this casino complaint might not work after all.

danherbias07

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I think you are aiming for a good approach since many gamblers are actually having problems with gambling sites that cannot answer their queries.
The only problem though is who will be the selected users that will be the mediator of this. There's always politics and a chance of a biased POV because of how reputable a casino could be in this forum especially if they are advertising their campaign here for a long time.

I have seen gamblers who complain a lot in the casino chatbox of Stake.com and yet they are still there playing. (most complaints are just losing streaks or low RTP accusations) The same goes for another popular reputable casino. It will be a difficult position for a mediator especially if there are no facts that could be presented by the gambler and it will likely turn out to align on the casino's side.

Time and effort will also be used, who will fund all those things because as a mediator they will be discussing it on both sides which means trouble in other stuff that they do. But I do like the idea although we cannot expect too much that there will be always one reputable member to do this. As long as it is for the sake of clearing the name of a casino or giving the gambler justice if ever the accusation is true.

Yaunfitda

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

I recently read this topic https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rollbit-disabling-account-and-confiscating-balance-of-410-5458053 about Rollbit disabling the user account without further explanation. By the flow of this case, It's either the user will use 3rd party service to file complaint or the representative of the casino will directly answer all the complain on scam accusation thread. The problem arise when both party claimin they are right while they can't provide documents in public, Most of the time we recommend to move the case on Askgambler to have a mediator for the case.

What if we have our own group of trusted user that can act as mediator to look on the case. We have a lot of talented and respectable user here that capable on handling the situation while most the casino representative has a close contact on campaign manager here.

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

It might have good intentions, like any other gambling mediation, but it the end it's not going to work.

1. Casino has the final decision and I doubt that they will chance their stance if they have the evidence at end
2. The casino complaint panel will be filled obviously, complains from newbies who suddenly appear in this community
3. You just don't know what the intentions of some individuals to file complain, this is a cutthroat business and anyone can do anything to destroy their competition including filing complaints that has no solid evidence

And there could be more reasons to. And I also don't think that those trusted user groups like DT1 will meddle in such cases. There are also politics in this community already. We don't need another one.

jrrsparkles

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

I recently read this topic https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rollbit-disabling-account-and-confiscating-balance-of-410-5458053 about Rollbit disabling the user account without further explanation. By the flow of this case, It's either the user will use 3rd party service to file complaint or the representative of the casino will directly answer all the complain on scam accusation thread. The problem arise when both party claimin they are right while they can't provide documents in public, Most of the time we recommend to move the case on Askgambler to have a mediator for the case.

What if we have our own group of trusted user that can act as mediator to look on the case. We have a lot of talented and respectable user here that capable on handling the situation while most the casino representative has a close contact on campaign manager here.

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

"Scams are not moderated in bitcointalk", so I think this serves the answer required for the thread. But I do appreciate if there is any cause when there is a dispute arises between cryptocurrency trading platform and its user the word from community can expose what is the actual truth.

We already have the DT community which is the one similar to what you are proposing but only users with very trustworthy like only DT1 members may act as Jury.

BTW it will be better if you move this to Meta since we are talking about something related to bitcointalk not just gambling.

Mr.suevie

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Quote from: cabron on June 30, 2023, 12:31:11 PM

Quote from: Cantsay on June 30, 2023, 12:06:19 PM

I doubt anything like that would get implemented as bitcointalk.org does not moderate scam in the first place...

Aside from the fact that scams are not moderated here I'm the forum creating a group of people like that could result to something else, for example some could think take them to be a gang while others will always suspect them to be bias whenever they support themselves in any arguments, just my saying though.
Just one last question: the cases moved to Askgambler are they always resolved? Or have they been my partiality there? If not then they should continue their mediator activities. Just my 2 cents.

Second to that. Theymos wouldn't have to bother himself with those complaints not related to the forum. The biases will bring more chaos as users will have to make known private and sensitive information to the panel. The problem this complaint panel brings outweighs the benefit in the end. There is Askgambler to go for it, Askgambler has handled cases of whether it is resolved or not. It's on their hands.

Enough problem indeed, I think thats exactly what will happen because the forum itself isn't about gambling companies, its basically about bitcoin and crypto discussion and it only advertises these company because they someway help in the rapid growth and uaage of bitcoin since they are crypto friendly and and like you said theymos would accommodate such idea to be added to the forum so if you ask me askgambler is just fine everything that needs to be discuss and settle can be carried out there.

Yatsan

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

What if we have our own group of trusted user that can act as mediator to look on the case. We have a lot of talented and respectable user here that capable on handling the situation while most the casino representative has a close contact on campaign manager here.

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

Problem is, not all gambling casino owner would be okay communicating with users in this forum even if it's their casino's reputaation is on the line. Also, let's jist say campaign managers in this forum are the ones to be representative. We are still in online platform and take note that we don't know each ither personally here, nothing would change if they would be avoidant of communication. Even if they would have a bad image in this forum, there would be still gamblers to play in their platform especially those who are not in this forum, so they'd more likely not mind things still.

We also cannot tag a casino as fraudalent or scam as long as it is running. We would know that a platform is a fraud only once they run with their consumer's money and not with few instances alone.

macson

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

I recently read this topic https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rollbit-disabling-account-and-confiscating-balance-of-410-5458053 about Rollbit disabling the user account without further explanation. By the flow of this case, It's either the user will use 3rd party service to file complaint or the representative of the casino will directly answer all the complain on scam accusation thread. The problem arise when both party claimin they are right while they can't provide documents in public, Most of the time we recommend to move the case on Askgambler to have a mediator for the case.

What if we have our own group of trusted user that can act as mediator to look on the case. We have a lot of talented and respectable user here that capable on handling the situation while most the casino representative has a close contact on campaign manager here.

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

i really support this to be realized so that neither the users nor the owners of gambling sites feel disadvantaged, but what i believe is that when this is realized, there will be many complaints that will be created and i'm sure trusted members or even forum moderators it will not be able to handle all cases.

i see just being the place as it is now, it's a good thing for the forum to exist ^{(without being a moderator in any case)}, but the support of every trusted member is important enough to analyze any reports of possible cheating.

Wiwo

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on June 30, 2023, 04:50:07 PM

There are a few non biased people I've seen comment in the scam accusation section, but what happens if we have a panel of judges on here? Possible corruption could happen and the "judges" might be able to be bought either by the casino or by the accuser. If we could keep the corruption out of it then it might be a good idea, but I don't think it's going to happen.

That wont happen anytime soon unless some form of development and changes happens in the near feature and fhe forum chooses to devote a portion to that and also allocating a few trusted forum members with experience such as yourself yahoo62278 to serve such a purpose.

And talking about corruption and possible bought over of the board members are the major set back that could be eliminated if the power doesn't reside with a single or few individuals but is left to be decentralized that way it will become hard to manipulate the whole board members at the same time.

I think this will eliminate the tendency of corruption in that regard.

coin-investor

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

What if we have our own group of trusted user that can act as mediator to look on the case. We have a lot of talented and respectable user here that capable on handling the situation while most the casino representative has a close contact on campaign manager here.

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

It may sound like a good idea but we all know its ok to have an alt account here in Bitcointalk, but what if one member of the panel's alt account is in that casino signature's campaign it will have a biased decision and what if some members of the panel is a VIP or active players of that casino.

It's better to have a platform do it because they do not have a stake in a casino and they already have a history of being a mediator, and we have the scam section where all members are free to give their views and DT can tag scammers.

TimeTeller

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Quote from: Johnyz on June 30, 2023, 05:27:24 PM

If there's someone here that is willing to help the user, then why not? This might help to solve the problem easily.
The complaints can only raise here in the forum but still the site is the one to decide, most of the complaints about the site that are here in the forum solved right away since there's a direct contact but if the site is not here, then it can be a big challenge to us.

The scam accusations board for me is already more than enough to assist the person who is in trouble.
Users here are also fast in advising the complainant on what to do next.
But the complainant should be honest and transparent with his case to know the root cause of his problem.
Also, it can easily be resolved if the casino in question has their own thread and rep in this forum.
Otherwise, it is hard to reach out casino owners outside the forum, which you may need other third party services.

Slow death

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Quote from: Cantsay on June 30, 2023, 12:06:19 PM

Just one last question: the cases moved to Askgambler are they always resolved? Or have they been my partiality there? If not then they should continue their mediator activities. Just my 2 cents.

From what I could observe in recent years, askgamble was able to put pressure on the casino when they were wrong to correct their mistakes, this pressure was in the sense of putting the casino on the black list if they did not solve the customer's problems, and as in the past the casinos depended a lot on askgambler and casino.guro to have many customers so only casinos were obliged to solve customer problems, but unfortunately today askgambler and casino.guro no longer have much influence as in the past, nowadays casinos they pay influencers, the owners of large youtube and twitch channels and with that casinos get many customers

so the casinos no longer need to depend too much on forums, monitor sites like casino.guro or askgambler, with that, there is no longer any way to pressure a casino to solve a customer's problem, for a casino that has many customers, even a customer has problems and keeps accusing them of scam, this does not affect the casino at all, unfortunately. that's why I think this OP idea would only work for new casinos here on the forum that still don't have much financial resources to pay the owners of big youtube and twitch channels

Johnyz

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If there's someone here that is willing to help the user, then why not? This might help to solve the problem easily.
The complaints can only raise here in the forum but still the site is the one to decide, most of the complaints about the site that are here in the forum solved right away since there's a direct contact but if the site is not here, then it can be a big challenge to us.

dunfida

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Quote from: yahoo62278 on June 30, 2023, 04:50:07 PM

There are a few non biased people I've seen comment in the scam accusation section, but what happens if we have a panel of judges on here? Possible corruption could happen and the "judges" might be able to be bought either by the casino or by the accuser. If we could keep the corruption out of it then it might be a good idea, but I don't think it's going to happen.

One of the main issues that would really be possibly to happen on which people could really be bought whether they would really be going against or would really be trying out to defend and there's no way that

we could really be able to know on whose been telling the truth and whose not which this is really that something would really be that hard to point out and if we do really just simply making out some basis.
Therefore, it wont really be that a sure thing that having some complaint panel would really be definitely be that effective or something that would really be able to resolved such issue.
This is a problem in between user and the platform on which making up some solutions and negotiations would really be just in between this two.
Taking up this to another level in terms of legal aspects then it would really be a different story and people on this community wouldnt be able to do something like this.
We could only post opinions but not able to give out those kind of conclusions on whose right and wrong.

goaldigger

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

This can help you push your issue with the site but of course if they are not here in the forum this can’t guarantee that it can help you, beside this might require a lot of time to manage and some are too busy to handle this. We already have the scam section where we can easily talk about the scam site, many are able to help the user to get the attention of the site but some failed to do so since the site is a real scam.

Casdinyard

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Quote from: Wapfika on June 30, 2023, 11:59:54 AM

I recently read this topic https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/rollbit-disabling-account-and-confiscating-balance-of-410-5458053 about Rollbit disabling the user account without further explanation. By the flow of this case, It's either the user will use 3rd party service to file complaint or the representative of the casino will directly answer all the complain on scam accusation thread. The problem arise when both party claimin they are right while they can't provide documents in public, Most of the time we recommend to move the case on Askgambler to have a mediator for the case.

What if we have our own group of trusted user that can act as mediator to look on the case. We have a lot of talented and respectable user here that capable on handling the situation while most the casino representative has a close contact on campaign manager here.

Do you think this is a good idea to solve cases like this? Take note only case that involved a valid evidence and argument will be considered. A tip is also required in case the complainant is willing to use the forum service.

There wouldn't be such a thing here, opinions are great and all that, but if they were to be used to judge cases like this that could cost one side lots of money in the process, at least let the judgment come from a source that is verifiable and one that mastered the art of providing sound judgment. Plus if we were to appoint certain accounts as "annointed users" or "chosen juries" that would just inflate the need for account buying here, which is already something that the whole team is fighting against since it insinuates dishonesty within the forum.

Let it just be like this, if shit hits the fan and they need to take this into court then might as well. I don't see why we should have a say in this cause it's not our money anyway, and we're already empowered to provide opinion to begin with.

yahoo62278

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There are a few non biased people I've seen comment in the scam accusation section, but what happens if we have a panel of judges on here? Possible corruption could happen and the "judges" might be able to be bought either by the casino or by the accuser. If we could keep the corruption out of it then it might be a good idea, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Topic: Bitcointalk own Casino complaint panel - page 2. (Read 646 times)