Topic: BitcoPlay.com Online Casino Goes Live (Read 3426 times)

Sorry, we did not mean the bonus counter. On that, you're absolutely right. It makes sense to put a notice there and we will put it ASAP.

Due to the dramatic increase of Bitcoin price, we are lowering the minimum deposit requirements for the Welcome Bonus. You can now deposit min 0.35 BTC to be eligible for the Welcome Bonus. And yes, we will still match your initial deposit 100% up to 3 BTC. Deposit any amount from 0.35 BTC to 3 BTC and we will credit your Bitcoplay.com account with the equal amount of coins.

Probably a good idea so that people don't think there's something broken when they notice the counter going down, hmm?

No need for the hostile tone.

May we remind you that our Terms and Conditions page clearly describes this? On the other hand, withdrawal processing has nothing to do with the bonus.

When are withdraws processed?

Thanks, probably a good idea to note it on the 100% bonus page

The rollover calculation is not instant. It is recalculated once the game session is complete. This happens approx. 10-15 minutes after the game is complete. If you still do not see your rollover increase, please let us know your username. The best way is to email support.

Thank you for playing at BitcoPlay.com and good luck.

The deposit bonus is +EV if you play jacks or better at least. However, the site does not calculate the wagers correctly.

Bug? I already wagered some bitcoins but I still get this message:

Maximum amount that you can withdraw is 1.0140. You have a pending bonus of 1.0000. In order to get this reward, you need to wager 10.0000 more.

Went down a bit, but it doesn't go down anymore when I bet.

100% WELCOME BONUS IS HERE!!!! CLICK HERE TO SNAP YOURS NOW

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Thank you for your feedback. However, you cannot make a video slot, at least one with a potential of jackpots and high payouts without weighing the reels. If you don't understand this, it means that you have not built a video slot at all. We have specifically pointed out that it is video slots that is problematic and not the classic slots (weighing is not relevant there, though can be used).

On the other hand, there are a lot if IFs in your analysis. But, what IF the provably fair system is not implemented correctly? The logic of the slots is on the server and without verifying the game engine's source code, you never know weather it is implemented correctly or not. The bottom line is that, the house can still cheat even with a provably fair system in place. The only way to be 100% sure that the house does not cheat, is to have the same source code that is used on the server.

We do not imply that provably fair systems are bad. On the contrary, we admit that they do provide a layer of protection for players, however, they also create an illusion that you cannot lose in a provably fair casino, which is far from being true. Another criticism that we have is that regular casino players are very far from hashes and cryptography and they can never really verify if the house is cheating or not. Early adopters of Bitcoin are mostly tech savvy and probably fair systems attract them and we do understand this. However, when the regulars hit the market, they won't care, because for them it still will be abracadabra.

If you do not believe that developing a provably fair video slot that cheats is a possibility, we recommend that you get in touch with our software provider.

On this, we would like to finish this discussion. Let the players decide what they want to play: crypto games with poor graphics and gameplay or truly entertaining casino games. In the long run, players do lose at both. That's why we are a strong advocate of responsible gaming. Gaming shall be approached as entertainment, not as a means to make money. Of course, sometimes players win and sometimes they win big, but in the long run, the law of large numbers takes the reign.

Sorry to derail this thread. Ultimately, I just want to correct the facts regarding provably fair games. Mainly: it is possible to create provably fair slots, and it does provide a real benefit to players.


That's a good point: If you want to create provably fair slots, you cannot "weight" the reels. But, since you won't be adjusting the RTP on-the-fly for online games, then this really shouldn't be an issue anyway.


Provably fair systems allow players to independently verify every single wager they make - usually immediately after the wager is complete. Effectively, this is a zero-trust system: players don't have to trust third-party licensing providers to be confident they're getting a fair game. In many ways, this is a parallel to bitcoin itself being a zero-trust system that doesn't force you to trust bankers in order to store and transfer value. I think that is one reason why bitcoin users are drawn to provably fair games.


If the provably fair system is implemented correctly, then this is not true. A player would be able to detect that the house has discarded the hash, and would immediately know they are being cheated.


If the house is lying about their pay table, then the player would know something was wrong as soon as they won something and didn't get paid the correct amount. This deception wouldn't last long.

Yes you're right. Bitcoplay is a profit only oriented, using magical phsychological tricks. OMG, I've just made a huge discovery. Provably fairs have positive EV! They are charity. Bravo. Did you notice how funny you sound?

I think for now I looked at all casinos where you can play with bitcoin and played a little bit here and there and Bitcoplay is by far the best, at least visually. I played some of their games and in fact the games are really nice, though not all are of the same quality and some are just ok. On the provably fairs front SD is really cool game and it was fun at other places too, especially when you're winning.

Honestly, I don't much care neither about bitcplay nor any other casino and i'm not affiliated with any of them. I'm just a casual gamer and I'm just saying what i see. And your post is totally misleadning (though I'm sure that's pretty much what its goal was, wasn't it?).

Hi libertaad,

I don't think it makes any sense to explain this to BitcoPlay. They know it; they simply don't care about being fair. As they stated above they care about their profits. To maximize profits all traditional casino software uses psychological models to keep the player playing, even when losing, to get as much as possible out of each player. And the best thing about this psychological model manipulation is that it looks statistically fair. The whole concept this is the exact opposite of provably fair.

BitcoPlay walks seems to prefer that path while a provably fair casino like yours walks the honest and fair path. Unfortunately the honest players often cannot spot the difference, meaning those manipulations are still very very profitable for the casinos...

tl;dr: BitcoPlay will not join the light side of the Force

Eventhough I was dubbed noob, and I don't take it as an offense as I am really noob with Bitcoin, I do have experience with design of slot machines. However, the problem that you have lies in this:

"So, as long as the house provides the accurate pay-table and reel-configuration, it is possible to independently calculate the return-to-player for a given slots game. Thus, it would not be possible for the house to deceive the player about the actual return-to-player for their slots games - as long as they provide the reel-configuration and pay-table."

Yes, it's up to the house to provide accurate pay-table. Nothing prevents the house from providing an inaccurate one. And that's the big problem and I am sure that's the point that Bitcoplay is trying to say.

I am currently consulting a group of people who are about to enter the Bitcoin gambling market and I have been telling them the same. Provably fair is not a panacea. You know that you artificially streched it to the slots. For card games where a deck is involved it works just fine but not for video slots. It's not something to trust a-priory. So, I think BitcoPlay guys (though I think those are more Playborne guys because they're the creators of the game) are right. It's possible to make a slot game that is provably fair and can still deceive.

The hash is shown to the player (hash of hash), and the player can specify their own secret. So the casino cannot discard a hash, because the player knows the hashed forms already.

Also, shady online casinos can make a slot or card come up more often than others if t can't be proved that it is decided beforehand or can be directly influenced by the player.

Not to nitpick here, but that's not exactly true. At least not in Vegas. Reel configurations in physical slots stay the same, but the par sheet changes based on electronic weighting which is not disclosed to the player. A reel with 5 single cherry instances on it can be weighted to come up cherry an extra 1 time in a thousand, if they want it to. That's how they adjust RTP without changing the pay table.

Now it is true that a slot with a 1-to-1 instance to weight ratio of symbols on all reels -- or a game like VP where the deck odds are known -- can definitely be proven fair if the pay table and outcome are made known to the player. But it's worth pointing out that all that is needed to make the game provably fair is a pay table and raw data to conduct a statistical analysis. If you're providing that to the players, then actually giving cryptographic proof is kind of a pointless extra. It may make some players feel better, and I have no problem with that, but like you said once the player has the actual RTP values, the reel configs or basic odds of the game, and the outcomes of all the play sessions, that's already enough to prove whether the game is fair or show if it's rigged.

Of course a house could manipulate those figures. That's what licensing jurisdictions are supposed to audit, and why most reputable casinos operate out of Malta, Curacao, etc. It's worth pointing out that a "provably fair" casino using two keys could also cheat by discarding a hash that was unfavorable to the house without the player ever knowing about it. Unless all the stats are made visible at the end of the day, there's no way to know whether a skew like that is happening.

Congrats on the launch! Your product looks amazing, and I wish you much success! I'm really glad to see bigger players entering the bitcoin gambling market.

I do want to address one issue you brought up:


I want to address this, because we do provide provably fair slots, and we specifically indicate that our game offers a 99% return-to-player. We spent a lot of time ensuring that our slots game is indeed provably fair, and even developed a novel technique for computing a slots outcome from any shuffled deck, so that our existing provably fair methodology could be applied to our slots game as well.

As long as the house provides the reel-configuration and the pay-table (which are both easy for players to verify without doing in-depth statistical analysis), it is possible for a player to calculate the return-to-player percentage of any slot machine. For an example, take a look at the wizardofodds.com game design for their slots game: http://wizardofodds.com/play/slots/australian-reels/5-line/math/. Given only the reel-configuration, and the pay-table, they calculate the exact payout.

As another example, our provably fair slots game has the following count of symbols per reel:


Combining the above with the pay table, you can calculate the following table:


If you add up all the Returns, you get the following total return-to-player: 0.9903564453125.

So, as long as the house provides the accurate pay-table and reel-configuration, it is possible to independently calculate the return-to-player for a given slots game. Thus, it would not be possible for the house to deceive the player about the actual return-to-player for their slots games - as long as they provide the reel-configuration and pay-table.

I really do encourage you to look into making your games provably fair. It's good for you (because your players will trust you more), good for your players (because they'll know they weren't cheated), and good for bitcoin (because bitcoin casinos are leading the charge in revolutionizing the online gambling industry).

If you're serious about the 5 BTC, please donate it to the Bitcoin Foundation

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I am not affiliated with any bitcoin gambling site. I just advertise them in my sig.

You don't ask someone to disprove cancer can't be cured. You prove it by curing cancer. Likewise, it's up to you to prove that a proper provably fair casino can be cheating.

Heck I'll even throw in a 10 BTC prize for you (or anyone else).