BitForce SC - full custom ASIC - page 19.

DiabloD3

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1000

DiabloMiner author

Quote from: Raoul Duke on May 30, 2012, 01:59:12 PM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on May 30, 2012, 01:55:54 PM

Angry neighborhood bastard mod, author of DiabloMiner, founder of Diablo Mining Company, and all around Demigod of the Bitcoin community here.

Hows this: BFL sends me the smallest ASIC product they make, I receive it, and then I will everyone that not only does it exist, but it works. This should end all the trolling, and if it doesn't I will happily start modding this forum until the shit ceases.

This should solve all the problems.

Nice try. lol

I'm quite serious. I'm tired of people attacking BFL for no reason, and I will just start discussing long term depopulation plans with Theymos if this continues. Its completely up to the trolls inhabiting this thread on what happens next.

BFL sending me a unit for inspection and testing would prove it exists and works and isn't vaporware.

Raoul Duke

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: DiabloD3 on May 30, 2012, 01:55:54 PM

Angry neighborhood bastard mod, author of DiabloMiner, founder of Diablo Mining Company, and all around Demigod of the Bitcoin community here.

Hows this: BFL sends me the smallest ASIC product they make, I receive it, and then I will everyone that not only does it exist, but it works. This should end all the trolling, and if it doesn't I will happily start modding this forum until the shit ceases.

This should solve all the problems.

Nice try. lol

DiabloD3

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1000

DiabloMiner author

Angry neighborhood bastard mod, author of DiabloMiner, founder of Diablo Mining Company, and all around Demigod of the Bitcoin community here.

Hows this: BFL sends me the smallest ASIC product they make, I receive it, and then I will everyone that not only does it exist, but it works. This should end all the trolling, and if it doesn't I will happily start modding this forum until the shit ceases.

This should solve all the problems.

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: rjk on May 30, 2012, 01:47:20 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Whether the mask exists now or not is irrelevant to the main point Entropy is making.

Really? Did you see the bolded part of his statement that was prefixed with an "IF"? In case you weren't aware, the mask is the main cost for this operation, the other costs are trivial in comparison.

All costs are trivial if you don't have to use any of your own money.

True, but how often does an investor throw good money after what could potentially be bad, without expecting anything in return? I have my doubts that any financing was "free".

jamesg

vip

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

AKA: gigavps

Quote from: SgtSpike on May 30, 2012, 01:46:08 PM

Fortunately for us, ensuring the continued success of Bitcoin is exactly what WILL maximize BFL's bottom line, and they know that. They wouldn't do anything that would harm confidence in Bitcoin or cause it to die. BFL will only continue selling miners so long as mining is profitable, which means they should and will do everything in their power to maximize miners' revenue.

Sounds like someone is starting to make some sense around here.

Pity all the naysayers don't just do their due diligence (I've said this multiple times and I'll keep saying it) and get to know the guys over at BFL. I have, and they are some pretty smart guys who believe in Bitcoin's potential.

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: P4man on May 30, 2012, 01:45:21 PM

Considering BFLs history, Im not expecting products in customer hands from them this year. It took what, almost 6? months for the singles to really arrive, and those were "just" standard, off the shelve FPGAs. Product cycle for a custom asic is quite a different thing. So between now and then, a lot could happen. Who knows, maybe even Largecoin will turn out be legit Grin

To be sure, I am hoping they figured out that we don't really like announcements that are so far in the future as last time, and have accordingly waited for this release. I suppose we will see, eventually. When was Largecoin supposed to deliver, anyways? I have almost forgotten about them....

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: ?? on ??

Whether the mask exists now or not is irrelevant to the main point Entropy is making.

Really? Did you see the bolded part of his statement that was prefixed with an "IF"? In case you weren't aware, the mask is the main cost for this operation, the other costs are trivial in comparison.

SgtSpike

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1005

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Clipse on May 30, 2012, 06:04:31 AM

If they end up selling ASIC units then these units will be priced at breakeven or a loss to miners over the next 12+ months simply because if anyone is capable of building ASIC units and mine with it in a profitable setup then it would be retarded to sell these units and lose out on your own market share where you could be earning more than selling it.

This. Anyone that thinks BFL is out for anything other than pure profit is naively fooling themselves. BFL doesn't care if bitcoin dies as long as it maximizes the bottom line.

Shame that BFL will be the first to market with an ASIC. Couldn't happen to a shadier company.

Fortunately for us, ensuring the continued success of Bitcoin is exactly what WILL maximize BFL's bottom line, and they know that. They wouldn't do anything that would harm confidence in Bitcoin or cause it to die. BFL will only continue selling miners so long as mining is profitable, which means they should and will do everything in their power to maximize miners' revenue.

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: rjk on May 30, 2012, 01:31:19 PM

Do you have something you are dying to tell us?

Considering BFLs history, Im not expecting products in customer hands from them this year. It took what, almost 6? months for the singles to really arrive, and those were "just" standard, off the shelve FPGAs. Product cycle for a custom asic is quite a different thing. So between now and then, a lot could happen. Who knows, maybe even Largecoin will turn out be legit Grin

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: ?? on ??

The money required here is trivial, if the masks are paid for already. I could access enough cash today to leverage up to the majority of the hashes in 3 or 4 months.

You could even do it borrowing from the insane 7% / week ponzis that are springing up all over bitcoin. This would have the added benefit of hedging out all of your bitcoin value risk

They don't have money. That is the only reason that justifies the observed actions.

Anyone that still thinks anything BFL does is legitimate should read this over and over until it sinks in.

Soo.. you are believing the words of some unknown noob, rather than someone who has delivered? Sure. And, pray tell, how do you think a dedicated Bitcoin mining ASIC mask already exists, that they can make a run off of? Answer: it doesn't, at least I have my doubts that someone created a mask and never used it. Use some common sense for fuck's sake.

DILLIGAF

full member

Activity: 196

Merit: 100

Quote from: BFL-Engineer on May 30, 2012, 11:32:59 AM

Quote from: Entropy-uc on May 30, 2012, 11:30:37 AM

Quote from: jamesg on May 30, 2012, 11:16:48 AM

I'm not quite sure why BFL would take on MORE RISK after funding the development of an ASIC chip.

Good business managers know that risk mitigation is way more important than quick profits.

I think an audit of BFL's books would show that you have been a significant source of funding for whatever development work has been done. Your cash up front for hardware that still hasn't shipped has been BFL's risk mitigation.

As I pointed out earlier, risk mitigation could be accomplished by borrowing in bitcoin to recover existing costs. If the exchange rate swings, or collapses you pay back in devalued bitcoin. And the loan is repaid out of your super-fantastic 900% / ROI ASICs.

I do have one question... What is exactly the point you are trying to make?

Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

I think it is pretty obvious your business model of cash up front followed by product months later with no communication of your plans/what you are doing with that money/product in the meantime is as others have pointed out is just a little bit shady...

yochdog

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1000

I wish I could run my business with working capital aquired from sales of future products. What a world.

rjk

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

1ngldh

Quote from: P4man on May 30, 2012, 01:29:30 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Shame that BFL will be the first to market with an ASIC.

That remains to be seen.

Do you have something you are dying to tell us?

P4man

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: ?? on ??

Shame that BFL will be the first to market with an ASIC.

That remains to be seen.

Raoul Duke

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Raoul Duke on May 30, 2012, 11:28:31 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I doubt it is legal to collect the full purchase price for products still in development.

Where were you during the 6 month Bitcoin Magazine debacle? Roll Eyes

working on 14nm process node technology.

OK. You only care about what other companies do when they're your competitors and are getting close to kick your ass. Got it!

coretechs

donator

Activity: 362

Merit: 250

I find it depressing that people are anti-ASIC and suggest algorithm changes. Luddites!

The reality is that SOMEONE will develop an ASIC for mining in the next few years whether you like it or not. They may do it in the secretive manner described above and nobody would even know. I'm glad that BFL has openly stated they want to sell them to end users, and hopefully they will see some healthy competition from other groups developing ASICs. If bitcoin is going to continue the hashing arms-race is inevitable.

BFL-Engineer

full member

Activity: 227

Merit: 100

Quote from: Entropy-uc on May 30, 2012, 11:30:37 AM

Quote from: jamesg on May 30, 2012, 11:16:48 AM

I'm not quite sure why BFL would take on MORE RISK after funding the development of an ASIC chip.

Good business managers know that risk mitigation is way more important than quick profits.

I think an audit of BFL's books would show that you have been a significant source of funding for whatever development work has been done. Your cash up front for hardware that still hasn't shipped has been BFL's risk mitigation.

As I pointed out earlier, risk mitigation could be accomplished by borrowing in bitcoin to recover existing costs. If the exchange rate swings, or collapses you pay back in devalued bitcoin. And the loan is repaid out of your super-fantastic 900% / ROI ASICs.

I do have one question... What is exactly the point you are trying to make?

Regards,
BF Labs Inc.

Entropy-uc

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 501

Quote from: jamesg on May 30, 2012, 11:16:48 AM

I'm not quite sure why BFL would take on MORE RISK after funding the development of an ASIC chip.

Good business managers know that risk mitigation is way more important than quick profits.

I think an audit of BFL's books would show that you have been a significant source of funding for whatever development work has been done. Your cash up front for hardware that still hasn't shipped has been BFL's risk mitigation.

As I pointed out earlier, risk mitigation could be accomplished by borrowing in bitcoin to recover existing costs. If the exchange rate swings, or collapses you pay back in devalued bitcoin. And the loan is repaid out of your super-fantastic 900% / ROI ASICs.

Raoul Duke

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1002

Quote from: ?? on ??

I doubt it is legal to collect the full purchase price for products still in development.

Where were you during the 6 month Bitcoin Magazine debacle? Roll Eyes

jamesg

vip

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1000

AKA: gigavps

Quote from: ?? on ??

The folks that are making large wire transfers to them should understand that they risk receiving nothing in exchange for their money.

Good thing you are here to worry for the rest of us. It would be a shame if they had to worry for themselves.

Topic: BitForce SC - full custom ASIC - page 19. (Read 52478 times)