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Topic: BitFunder.com has been hacked and IT IS BitFunder's fault (Read 30123 times)

sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Does this one (http://www.maxoutput.com/authenticator/) is good to use with 2-factor ?
It work with bitfunder, then I would add 2-factor on weexchange and now I can't login again, weexchange is very "unstable" like a "beta website"  Angry

Most likely you failed to enter the password when setting up 2-factor on weexchange, and the page reloaded changing your 2-factor code after you had already scanned it, and then you locked yourself out.

If you need help with this, pm me.

Thanks,
Ukyo
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 502
Doesn't use these forums that often.
Does this one (http://www.maxoutput.com/authenticator/) is good to use with 2-factor ?
It work with bitfunder, then I would add 2-factor on weexchange and now I can't login again, weexchange is very "unstable" like a "beta website"  Angry
Looks like it.  Wink
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1333
you could probably even implement it yourself in a few lines of any scripting language

You can do it in 7 lines of Python code:

Code:
import hmac, base64, struct, hashlib, time

def get_hotp_token(secret, number):
    h = hmac.new(base64.b32decode(secret, True), struct.pack(">Q", number), hashlib.sha1).digest()
    o = ord(h[19]) & 15
    return (struct.unpack(">I", h[o:o+4])[0] & 0x7fffffff) % 1000000

def get_totp_token(secret):
    return get_hotp_token(secret, int(time.time())//30)
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1006
Lead Blockchain Developer
GPG used incorrectly (key on your pc) is about as useful as the PINs.  It's better than nothing but a virus can grab your key easy as it can log your PIN.  Using GPG correctly via 2nd non-networked PC and sneakernet storage device is a PITA compared to gAuth or Yubikey.
But that's not a bad idea if you're dealing with a lot of money. You don't stuff hundreds of thousands of dollars in your mattress, do you?

I think the point I was trying to make is that GPG is not 2FA out of the box.  You have to follow specific practices to make it that way, and such behavior is not nearly as intuitive as the alternatives.  It is difficult enough to use that it actually encourages insecure use.

vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
GPG used incorrectly (key on your pc) is about as useful as the PINs.  It's better than nothing but a virus can grab your key easy as it can log your PIN.  Using GPG correctly via 2nd non-networked PC and sneakernet storage device is a PITA compared to gAuth or Yubikey.
But that's not a bad idea if you're dealing with a lot of money. You don't stuff hundreds of thousands of dollars in your mattress, do you?
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1006
Lead Blockchain Developer
The easiest way to protect yourself would be using web applications that are coded securely. Now I'm not sure if btct.co uses an anti csrf token (I don't think it does?), but their PIN / 2 FA system makes this attack less useful (an attacker can just use JS to submit ~100 most common PINs)

Close, but not entirely correct.  Lockout gets triggered after ~5 bad PIN attempts.

Any btct.co users reading this, turn on 2FA if you can.  The PINs help but are really only placeholders for the 2FA form fields in the interfaces.

Websites are not safe for this application. Learn GPG. That is all.

I detect many suppressed lels in this statement.

GPG used incorrectly (key on your pc) is about as useful as the PINs.  It's better than nothing but a virus can grab your key easy as it can log your PIN.  Using GPG correctly via 2nd non-networked PC and sneakernet storage device is a PITA compared to gAuth or Yubikey.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
Am I the only one finding your excuse for not refunding victims here a little disingenuous?

The 'htemp' hack has been documented by many people, and the root cause was a clear defect in your security model.  But you won't own up to the failure because somebody might pretend to be hacked?  You have a clear trail for anyone who had funds transferred to the 'htemp' account.

I don't see how you can justify not compensating victims in this case.  Considering the huge fees you are collecting on trades you should take a day's income and make your mistake right for the victims.  If you want to require 2FA for compensation in the future, that is a different matter.

The issue was not from a cross-site post, but from a list of user/passwords that were used by an abuser.

There was a cross-site vulnerability which has now been fixed. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2685210)

The users effected by 'htemp' and 2 other user accounts had their accounts directly accessed by a 3rd party on first attempt who were testing a user/pass list which looks to be stolen from another site.

There was only 2 reported incidents of any account hacking via cross-site scripting, which were indeed credited.
Since the 2-factor requirement for transfers have been in place, there have been no further reports of abuse.

I suggest using a different e-mail/password combination on different bitcoin based sites out there, as you never know who else out there get's hacked and they never tell you.

Our system logged a botnet of over 5,000 account attempts one after another. The majority of the matching ones had 2-factor enabled which stopped their account loss.
Those known users were already contacted weeks ago to let them know of the situation and their vulnerability and that the should change that password combination on other sites.

-Ukyo
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 501
(if you read the transcript, this fool didn't even enable it after the loss)  



Is he a fool? His account was cleaned out.

Quote
Very much agreed.

What are you agreeing too Ukyo? A refund to the op?

He was calling him a fool because after the cleanout, the user still refused to enable 2factor.

I am agreeing to a code revamp and update with more enhanced security options and features which we started a few weeks ago when this problem with transfers was fixed requiring google 2-factor authentication. Without 2-factor, anyone can claim "I was hacked! It was a bad website, it was a trojan, a virus loaded pages and grabbed a per-page generated code and did everything!"
Unfortunately there is so much fraud and so many fraudsters when it comes to bitcoin, that we cannot accept that as an answer since there is no proof otherwise.
This is why we have adopted the 2-factor requirement. We are looking to add additional options such as optional pins (That can easily be recorded one time by a trojan though), yubikeys, and other new technologies.

-Ukyo

Am I the only one finding your excuse for not refunding victims here a little disingenuous?

The 'htemp' hack has been documented by many people, and the root cause was a clear defect in your security model.  But you won't own up to the failure because somebody might pretend to be hacked?  You have a clear trail for anyone who had funds transferred to the 'htemp' account.

I don't see how you can justify not compensating victims in this case.  Considering the huge fees you are collecting on trades you should take a day's income and make your mistake right for the victims.  If you want to require 2FA for compensation in the future, that is a different matter.
hero member
Activity: 938
Merit: 500
https://youengine.io/
So, I can use google 2-factor without a phone ?

The wikipedia page about it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Authenticator lists a whole bunch of alternative implementations, including ones for Windows (or Linux or Mac) desktops as well as the **trivial** 10 lines of code that describe the algorithm, so you could probably even implement it yourself in a few lines of any scripting language. A phone is really not needed to run this extremely simple code.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
I agree that there need to be more options than just 2-factor.

I have been talking with Yubikey about some alternative solutions, even for mobile access  as well as working on a big and controversial id verification method that will be optional as well. Smiley

Thanks,
Ukyo
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1009
Moderate increase in tx fees for those who have SMS verification enabled, say.

It might not make economical sense for smaller trades, but the trading bots don't have mobile phones, so there's no big worry there.  Wink
hero member
Activity: 630
Merit: 500
Bitgoblin
blockchain.info's SMS verification is similar to what you're describing. The login page sends you a one-time code via SMS that you must enter into the browser, along with username and password.

For a trivial amount of effort, you could extend this to any sensitive action: sell, transfer, etc. No yubikey or even smartphone required, just a phone that can receive SMS. The security-minded could purchase a cheap prepaid mobile phone for this purpose, and keep it in a secure location.

I'm not sure of the cost related to sending out that many SMS messages, but that's not an insurmountable problem.
very good observation.

the cost of sending many SMS is quite low if you buy them in bulk, so as long as you have *any* profit, that would be fine.
legendary
Activity: 1554
Merit: 1009
blockchain.info's SMS verification is similar to what you're describing. The login page sends you a one-time code via SMS that you must enter into the browser, along with username and password.

For a trivial amount of effort, you could extend this to any sensitive action: sell, transfer, etc. No yubikey or even smartphone required, just a phone that can receive SMS. The security-minded could purchase a cheap prepaid mobile phone for this purpose, and keep it in a secure location.

I'm not sure of the cost related to sending out that many SMS messages, but that's not an insurmountable problem.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank
Can you generate PIN's that can be used only once? Question is, how to deliver the list of keys to your client so you "they" (bad guys) not have them Smiley
  
Code:
1)  11975
2)  14975
3)  07277
4)  06680
5)  14321
6)  28753
7)  90415
8)  91468
9)  99442
10) 95016
...

None of the numbers can be reused. When I log in and start a transfer or any other operation, where coin/shares move, system ask for a PIN #?. Lets sat I have used 1-3 so it asks for PIN 4 and then for #5 etc.
If I screw up and enter PIN #4 incorrectly, PIN #5 will be asked and so on.
If you add a delay, that starts to grow after every wrong entry, brute force becomes pointless. Even better, lock the account down after 5 wrong PIN entries and send out an e-mail.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1007
1davout
You are using Googles 2-step verification and this requires a phone that supports it.
What if I do not have nor like those huge shiny slabs of glass and plastic, every fashion victim drags around so happily - drooling, while finger fucking his/her phone every waking moment.

mtGox sent me a yubikey for free Wink I know, you probably can not do this right now but there has to be a way to fix those security issues by not forcing your clients to depend on some third party crap from Google. Especially from Google.

Even PIN provides some level of protection, when every failed attempt causes n+1 seconds delay. Add a letter to 4 digit PIN and it got way better.
Google Auth is an implementation of a open standards called TOTP and HOTP that you can use on a regular computer (or theoretically with a watch, a pen and a paper). Hurr'durr'ing is hardly justified here.

I also have a free yubikey from Mt.Gox but not many sites support it.
No other site than mtgox itself can support the Yubikey they send you. If you see a site claiming that they support gox's keys too you should run.
The reason is that a yubikey contains an AES key that is used to generate and validate OTPs, with a regular key you can validate OTPs against the Yubico servers since the AES key is filled in by Yubico itself. At mtgox they flash the keys and replace them with AES keys they only know, making the key effectively unusable anywhere else than at gox itself.
vip
Activity: 1316
Merit: 1043
👻
Just use one of the web g 2fas.
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1002
You are using Googles 2-step verification and this requires a phone that supports it.
What if I do not have nor like those huge shiny slabs of glass and plastic, every fashion victim drags around so happily - drooling, while finger fucking his/her phone every waking moment.

mtGox sent me a yubikey for free Wink I know, you probably can not do this right now but there has to be a way to fix those security issues by not forcing your clients to depend on some third party crap from Google. Especially from Google.

Even PIN provides some level of protection, when every failed attempt causes n+1 seconds delay. Add a letter to 4 digit PIN and it got way better.

I also have a free yubikey from Mt.Gox but not many sites support it.
So I'm forced to use Google 2FA and I have it installed on 3 devices for backup purposes.
legendary
Activity: 910
Merit: 1000
Quality Printing Services by Federal Reserve Bank
You are using Googles 2-step verification and this requires a phone that supports it.
What if I do not have nor like those huge shiny slabs of glass and plastic, every fashion victim drags around so happily - drooling, while finger fucking his/her phone every waking moment.

mtGox sent me a yubikey for free Wink I know, you probably can not do this right now but there has to be a way to fix those security issues by not forcing your clients to depend on some third party crap from Google. Especially from Google.

Even PIN provides some level of protection, when every failed attempt causes n+1 seconds delay. Add a letter to 4 digit PIN and it got way better.
newbie
Activity: 44
Merit: 0
This comment isn't really beneficial to the conversation.... but no wonder the price of btc is tanking.
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
(if you read the transcript, this fool didn't even enable it after the loss) 



Is he a fool? His account was cleaned out.

Quote
Very much agreed.

What are you agreeing too Ukyo? A refund to the op?

He was calling him a fool because after the cleanout, the user still refused to enable 2factor.

I am agreeing to a code revamp and update with more enhanced security options and features which we started a few weeks ago when this problem with transfers was fixed requiring google 2-factor authentication. Without 2-factor, anyone can claim "I was hacked! It was a bad website, it was a trojan, a virus loaded pages and grabbed a per-page generated code and did everything!"
Unfortunately there is so much fraud and so many fraudsters when it comes to bitcoin, that we cannot accept that as an answer since there is no proof otherwise.
This is why we have adopted the 2-factor requirement. We are looking to add additional options such as optional pins (That can easily be recorded one time by a trojan though), yubikeys, and other new technologies.

-Ukyo
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