Do these Containers actually exist, surely there ought to be a real picture of one somewhere?
Rich
Topic: Bitfury Containerized Plug and Play Datacenter - page 2. (Read 7380 times)
And if it does .11 watts per gh before cooling it is poorly designed.
the chip has demoed at 0.06 watts a gh
At very low hashrate per chip.
Definitely a tradeoff on "cost of chips" to run more efficiently vs. "lower power/cooling costs".
Consider the S7 and the BM1385 - if Bitmain had put more chips-per-string in the S7, it would be noticeably more efficient - but would have cost quite a bit more per TH or they would have had to accept quite a bit less profit per unit.
BW.com should be starting deployment of the B-Eleven (B11, whichever it is THIS month), might be part of the hashrate jump the last week or two.
The current large hashrate jump doesn't HAVE to be all about BitFury.
You do have a good point on B11. Some reseller posted in hardware saying it was coming soon. Only thing is I don't think we have seen anything besides renderings. So they are really good at keeping secrets or they don't have it perfected yet.
On this container there was another company that sold containers they were rediclous on price. It did not take off they showed 1 or 2. I suspect bitfury will be the same they don't sell many of these. And it could be like the light bulb.... were still waiting for it to sell to customers, which looks like it will never happen.
And if it does .11 watts per gh before cooling it is poorly designed.
the chip has demoed at 0.06 watts a gh
At very low hashrate per chip.
Definitely a tradeoff on "cost of chips" to run more efficiently vs. "lower power/cooling costs".
Consider the S7 and the BM1385 - if Bitmain had put more chips-per-string in the S7, it would be noticeably more efficient - but would have cost quite a bit more per TH or they would have had to accept quite a bit less profit per unit.
BW.com should be starting deployment of the B-Eleven (B11, whichever it is THIS month), might be part of the hashrate jump the last week or two.
The current large hashrate jump doesn't HAVE to be all about BitFury.
I don't think we should expect there to be any significant slowdown soon. The ASIC manufacturers want to exract every possible $$$ (mu fiat of choice), while they can. None of them know what the halving will do to the price of mining gear and their ability to sell it. Right now it's a sellers market, and they will try and feed the appetite, along with transferring any risk, to the willing buyers.
Bitmain lit the fuse back in August, and re-ignited the ASIC arms race. They make their money on the front end, and give up some possible appreciation and earnings, to let the buyer take the risk.
Sell while the selling is good.
Bitmain lit the fuse back in August, and re-ignited the ASIC arms race. They make their money on the front end, and give up some possible appreciation and earnings, to let the buyer take the risk.
Sell while the selling is good.
Disagree. I suspect the mining manufactures are not selling hardware. They are mining with it. The best the general public can buy is the S7, which is unlikely to ever give an ROI.
The better miners, from the SP50 onwards, are not available to the general public. No manufacturer has yet released details of a 16nm miner for potential general sale despite lots of evidence they have been around for some time. And when they are available they are likely to only be available to large buyers.
In summary if there is one thing the miner manufactures are not doing it is selling the latest miners to the general public.
I don't think we should expect there to be any significant slowdown soon. The ASIC manufacturers want to exract every possible $$$ (mu fiat of choice), while they can. None of them know what the halving will do to the price of mining gear and their ability to sell it. Right now it's a sellers market, and they will try and feed the appetite, along with transferring any risk, to the willing buyers.
Bitmain lit the fuse back in August, and re-ignited the ASIC arms race. They make their money on the front end, and give up some possible appreciation and earnings, to let the buyer take the risk.
Sell while the selling is good.
Bitmain lit the fuse back in August, and re-ignited the ASIC arms race. They make their money on the front end, and give up some possible appreciation and earnings, to let the buyer take the risk.
Sell while the selling is good.
please be aware that this chip and equipment based on it is ALREADY deployed and in use by large mine farms. i can state for almost certain fact that the bitfury 16nm has been deployed in a farm in the nyc area for a few months now. the size takes less than 128u rack space and is hashing 400th. the reason i say that i am pnly "almost certain" is i have not seen it personally but was told about it by a good friend that has seen it first hand.
Interesting it would make a lot of sense as difficulty has went crazy it seems right now. Just price staying sub 400, and huge jump coming is not good for miners. If they get them in before having ... that is huge of these new chips.
I would think we would see them pushing hard on getting gear as Bitfury seems to have beat all other makers on time and specs, at least that we know about. I hope it slow's down but I'm not sure what will happen.
please be aware that this chip and equipment based on it is ALREADY deployed and in use by large mine farms. i can state for almost certain fact that the bitfury 16nm has been deployed in a farm in the nyc area for a few months now. the size takes less than 128u rack space and is hashing 400th. the reason i say that i am pnly "almost certain" is i have not seen it personally but was told about it by a good friend that has seen it first hand.
The only thing I wonder is if some of these mega clients really will want the already setup box. I see a lot of the big players already with investment's in data centers, so likely they will want to put in a spot they already have. I predict most of clients will just want miners. But I could be wrong if someone is a new player in the game then they might like this.
Agree. I see technicians in large scale mining farms slowly moving along racks replacing 28nm miners with 16nm miners. The new miners look identical to the old miners and draw the same power. The only difference is that they have 5 times the hashing rate.
So the network hash rate grows 500% compared to say June 2015 with no extra space or power needed. It could rise from 400 Petahash to 2,000 Petahash just from upgrading of existing miners.
In practice some new mines will open as miners move to cheaper power areas. But mammoth new mines over those previously announced are unlikely.
I think there will be a lot of that going on. They will replace miners replaced and they might try to sell old miners to another location.
A possible example is over here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1231822.120 armedmilitia noticed that a operation in Venezuela's gear looked just like the one's MegaBigPower wanted to sell in bulk.
What we see in that thread I predict more of. Send a container of old gear to some country where electricity is super cheap and high risk, but if since you already replaced gear... high risk is still a bonus if you get more ROI.
The only thing I wonder is if some of these mega clients really will want the already setup box. I see a lot of the big players already with investment's in data centers, so likely they will want to put in a spot they already have. I predict most of clients will just want miners. But I could be wrong if someone is a new player in the game then they might like this.
Agree. I see technicians in large scale mining farms slowly moving along racks replacing 28nm miners with 16nm miners. The new miners look identical to the old miners and draw the same power. The only difference is that they have 5 times the hashing rate.
So the network hash rate grows 500% compared to say June 2015 with no extra space or power needed. It could rise from 400 Petahash to 2,000 Petahash just from upgrading of existing miners.
In practice some new mines will open as miners move to cheaper power areas. But mammoth new mines over those previously announced are unlikely.
Intereted to see how much THESE cost!
http://bitfury.com/products#container-datacenter
Just hoping this isn't what they meant when they said "Selling to the public". I don't think my neighbors would like this in front of my house with a big power cable running to it....
http://bitfury.com/products#container-datacenter
Just hoping this isn't what they meant when they said "Selling to the public". I don't think my neighbors would like this in front of my house with a big power cable running to it....
Everything old is new again.
The attached article gives a detailed discussion on Bitcoin mining in a 1.2 Megawatt container data center.
It also has details of KNC, ASICminer and Megabig power large scale mining.
The interesting thing is that the article is from 2014 when the total worth of mining was $845 million pa and expected to grow. Today total mining earnings are about $525 million pa and if Bitcoin stays around $400, possibly just $260 million pa after July.
Back then mining attracted big money.
http://www.allied-control.com/publications/Analysis_of_Large-Scale_Bitcoin_Mining_Operations.pdf
I would love to find a client to host one of these units. This has been in the works for years, good to see it as a reality. Immersion cooling is a growing technology, and Bitcoin Mining is a near perfect test-case for the viability of the underlying technology. It is a very efficient package overall and in the times of rising difficulty, efficiency is key.
-Dalkore
-Dalkore
And if it does .11 watts per gh before cooling it is poorly designed.
the chip has demoed at 0.06 watts a gh
So this does close to 2x what the chip can do on the low end.
I don't see it as a good design unless they don't sell any chips to any one else.
If they sell chips and some one builds a .08 watt s-9 it will hurt this machine.
Now if they back off on the power or allow this to run at a solid down clock down volt.
Ie if you can run it at .07 or .08 watts a gh as an option it is a fine piece of gear.
I think a lot of the potential clients will be less then the .07 even. I see this most likely going to some of the biggest operations and I would guess around half of that price they pay.
The only thing I wonder is if some of these mega clients really will want the already setup box. I see a lot of the big players already with investment's in data centers, so likely they will want to put in a spot they already have. I predict most of clients will just want miners. But I could be wrong if someone is a new player in the game then they might like this.
I would love to find a client to host one of these units. This has been in the works for years, good to see it as a reality. Immersion cooling is a growing technology, and Bitcoin Mining is a near perfect test-case for the viability of the underlying technology. It is a very efficient package overall and in the times of rising difficulty, efficiency is key.
-Dalkore
-Dalkore
And if it does .11 watts per gh before cooling it is poorly designed.
the chip has demoed at 0.06 watts a gh
So this does close to 2x what the chip can do on the low end.
I don't see it as a good design unless they don't sell any chips to any one else.
If they sell chips and some one builds a .08 watt s-9 it will hurt this machine.
Now if they back off on the power or allow this to run at a solid down clock down volt.
Ie if you can run it at .07 or .08 watts a gh as an option it is a fine piece of gear.
I would love to find a client to host one of these units. This has been in the works for years, good to see it as a reality. Immersion cooling is a growing technology, and Bitcoin Mining is a near perfect test-case for the viability of the underlying technology. It is a very efficient package overall and in the times of rising difficulty, efficiency is key.
-Dalkore
-Dalkore
it could cost 2.200.000$, aprox, but the most amazin thing is that you can "transport" your mine center over world with only a truck... 
well, this is borderline price assuming maybe two more months wait.
Why? S7 is $789+shipping=~840 for 4.7Th, but I will go with $789 number because there are discounts for large purchases, which will negate shipping
16000Th (container)/4.7=3404 S7 equivalents
3404X789=$2685957
It would take Bitmain to simply lower S7 price to ~$605 to match the container price per Th (although without counting better efficiency).
Conclusion: Bitfury has to lower the container price to 1-1.2 mil to have a significant competitive advantage and deploy en masse vs Bitmain.
this gear is moron on BITFURY'S PART and only a moron would buy it.
We all saw the video of these chips doing 0.06 watts per gh on a down clock..
so if they build a box at 0.075 watts per gh net that uses 1000 watts it is a 13.3 ph box
They are complete moron for pushing this idea for now and pushing the light bulb idea last year
When a 1000 or even an 800 watt box makes perfect sense. You know the one in the middle of the two idea's above.
This container will produce close to 8 million btu's
That is around 80 home furnace's
I estimate that the 16 fans on top of the box need to move around 400,000 CFM
true insanity.
When they can simply make 800 watt boxes = to a pair of s-7's.
I assume that this harks back to bitfury CEO past. He is from Latvia/former USSR growing up during 1990 USSR collapse.
Lots of bad people, lots of various scams and swindlers, so people's mistrust, perhaps.
He probably does not want to deal with tens/hundreds of thousands of small miners, hence the "go big" mentality.
Honestly, why not just put up the chip for sale directly on the internet, then institute a volume discount for large customers.
This way, anyone can build a miner and there is no need for some byzantine integrators communication pathway scheme.
gearing it in In a container that produces 8,000,000 BTU of heat and needs 400,000 CFM of fans is just plain stupid.
As for Roi.
All this setup makes a chip that can do 0.06 or 0.07 air cooled do worse then .11 since I have to fire the fans up and pumps to cool.
So I buy the monster and I find it does .14 watts a gh with cooling costs and works great.
Bitmaintech tosses a ton of money for just the chips at bitfury and builds a .08 watt air cooled s-9 .
So by buying gear that with cooling approaches .14 watts
I could be hurt if bitmantech puts out a .08 watt miner in small gear.
Right now bitfury needs to design the container to do under 0.09 watts not
.14watts with the fans pumps and cooling.
If I could come up with the coin for this I don't want it since it is designed to go high watts per gh on the chip not low watts per gh on the chip.
and bitfury could simply undercut me with a significantly better design for the same chip. And no one will want the beast. for a second hand miner.
it could cost 2.200.000$, aprox, but the most amazin thing is that you can "transport" your mine center over world with only a truck...
well, this is borderline price assuming maybe two more months wait.
Why? S7 is $789+shipping=~840 for 4.7Th, but I will go with $789 number because there are discounts for large purchases, which will negate shipping
16000Th (container)/4.7=3404 S7 equivalents
3404X789=$2685957
It would take Bitmain to simply lower S7 price to ~$605 to match the container price per Th (although without counting better efficiency).
Conclusion: Bitfury has to lower the container price to 1-1.2 mil to have a significant competitive advantage and deploy en masse vs Bitmain.
this gear is moron on BITFURY'S PART and only a moron would buy it.
We all saw the video of these chips doing 0.06 watts per gh on a down clock..
so if they build a box at 0.075 watts per gh net that uses 1000 watts it is a 13.3 ph box
They are complete moron for pushing this idea for now and pushing the light bulb idea last year
When a 1000 or even an 800 watt box makes perfect sense. You know the one in the middle of the two idea's above.
This container will produce close to 8 million btu's
That is around 80 home furnace's
I estimate that the 16 fans on top of the box need to move around 400,000 CFM
true insanity.
When they can simply make 800 watt boxes = to a pair of s-7's.
I assume that this harks back to bitfury CEO past. He is from Latvia/former USSR growing up during 1990 USSR collapse.
Lots of bad people, lots of various scams and swindlers, so people's mistrust, perhaps.
He probably does not want to deal with tens/hundreds of thousands of small miners, hence the "go big" mentality.
Honestly, why not just put up the chip for sale directly on the internet, then institute a volume discount for large customers.
This way, anyone can build a miner and there is no need for some byzantine integrators communication pathway scheme.
I believe they are doing it like this: http://www.datatank-mining.com/
http://www.datatank-mining.com/files/DataTank_Mining_Ops_Prospectus.pdf
If this is the case, you definitely wouldn't be a moron for buying it, if you could afford it and the ROI math checks out..
http://www.datatank-mining.com/files/DataTank_Mining_Ops_Prospectus.pdf
If this is the case, you definitely wouldn't be a moron for buying it, if you could afford it and the ROI math checks out..
it could cost 2.200.000$, aprox, but the most amazin thing is that you can "transport" your mine center over world with only a truck...
well, this is borderline price assuming maybe two more months wait.
Why? S7 is $789+shipping=~840 for 4.7Th, but I will go with $789 number because there are discounts for large purchases, which will negate shipping
16000Th (container)/4.7=3404 S7 equivalents
3404X789=$2685957
It would take Bitmain to simply lower S7 price to ~$605 to match the container price per Th (although without counting better efficiency).
Conclusion: Bitfury has to lower the container price to 1-1.2 mil to have a significant competitive advantage and deploy en masse vs Bitmain.
this gear is moron on BITFURY'S PART and only a moron would buy it.
We all saw the video of these chips doing 0.06 watts per gh on a down clock..
so if they build a box at 0.075 watts per gh net that uses 1000 watts it is a 13.3 ph box
They are complete moron for pushing this idea for now and pushing the light bulb idea last year
When a 1000 or even an 800 watt box makes perfect sense. You know the one in the middle of the two idea's above.
This container will produce close to 8 million btu's
That is around 80 home furnace's
I estimate that the 16 fans on top of the box need to move around 400,000 CFM
true insanity.
When they can simply make 800 watt boxes = to a pair of s-7's.
it could cost 2.200.000$, aprox, but the most amazin thing is that you can "transport" your mine center over world with only a truck...
well, this is borderline price assuming maybe two more months wait.
Why? S7 is $789+shipping=~840 for 4.7Th, but I will go with $789 number because there are discounts for large purchases, which will negate shipping
16000Th (container)/4.7=3404 S7 equivalents
3404X789=$2685957
It would take Bitmain to simply lower S7 price to ~$605 to match the container price per Th (although without counting better efficiency).
Conclusion: Bitfury has to lower the container price to 1-1.2 mil to have a significant competitive advantage and deploy en masse vs Bitmain.
I think you need to add cooling costs and the cost of creating a room for hosting many S7's.
I'm pretty sure cooling 16 PH of Bitfury's immersion cooled chips, will require less energy than cooling 16 PH of S7's with air circulation. (Pure speculation on the immersion part, but only realistic way to cool 2MW in a container IMO.)
Property cost/rent should also be in there!
one idea would be to shrink that container (maybe 100-200 fold in volume) from 40X100 ft to 8.6X21.5.4 ft or 6.8X17 ft box respectively that could fit in the backyard.
It would do 160Th or 80Th and use 20 or 10kw. Such mini-box would sell well to bitcoin mining prosumers.
I'd buy that in a heart beat actually!
it could cost 2.200.000$, aprox, but the most amazin thing is that you can "transport" your mine center over world with only a truck...
well, this is borderline price assuming maybe two more months wait.
Why? S7 is $789+shipping=~840 for 4.7Th, but I will go with $789 number because there are discounts for large purchases, which will negate shipping
16000Th (container)/4.7=3404 S7 equivalents
3404X789=$2685957
It would take Bitmain to simply lower S7 price to ~$605 to match the container price per Th (although without counting better efficiency).
Conclusion: Bitfury has to lower the container price to 1-1.2 mil to have a significant competitive advantage and deploy en masse vs Bitmain.
I think you need to add cooling costs and the cost of creating a room for hosting many S7's.
I'm pretty sure cooling 16 PH of Bitfury's immersion cooled chips, will require less energy than cooling 16 PH of S7's with air circulation. (Pure speculation on the immersion part, but only realistic way to cool 2MW in a container IMO.)
Property cost/rent should also be in there!
one idea would be to shrink that container (maybe 100-200 fold in volume) from 40X100 ft to 8.6X21.5.4 ft or 6.8X17 ft box respectively that could fit in the backyard.
It would do 160Th or 80Th and use 20 or 10kw. Such mini-box would sell well to bitcoin mining prosumers.
it could cost 2.200.000$, aprox, but the most amazin thing is that you can "transport" your mine center over world with only a truck...
well, this is borderline price assuming maybe two more months wait.
Why? S7 is $789+shipping=~840 for 4.7Th, but I will go with $789 number because there are discounts for large purchases, which will negate shipping
16000Th (container)/4.7=3404 S7 equivalents
3404X789=$2685957
It would take Bitmain to simply lower S7 price to ~$605 to match the container price per Th (although without counting better efficiency).
Conclusion: Bitfury has to lower the container price to 1-1.2 mil to have a significant competitive advantage and deploy en masse vs Bitmain.
I think you need to add cooling costs and the cost of creating a room for hosting many S7's.
I'm pretty sure cooling 16 PH of Bitfury's immersion cooled chips, will require less energy than cooling 16 PH of S7's with air circulation. (Pure speculation on the immersion part, but only realistic way to cool 2MW in a container IMO.)
Property cost/rent should also be in there!
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