Bitmain 51% Attack? Would they do such if they get the hash? [POLL]

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: Simon241084 on July 14, 2018, 11:38:57 PM

It has nothing to do with having a will or a ball to do that, it has to do with the consequences of doing something like that and the revenue they make every year is huge. They have a mining farm, a mining tank and mining equipment manufacturing. Now the question is do you think they will ruin all the empires that they have built? a 51% attack? I'm sorry, because I do not understand. It is impossible if the construction company will be destroyed.

You are likely correct..however, they will soon (if not already) have 51% of the BTC network..and soon they will have (if as I suspect they have the supposed 3x the

speed at same watts LTC and scrypt-pow miner) own 51% of the LTC network and likely as they have (currently) 90% of all scrypt-pow miners that still can make

a profit mining...51% on other scrypt pow coins as well...

that much power they will try to 'lever' it in some manner..if not 51% attack .thru some other influence..it is what Bitmain does...

Bitmain: evil never rests (tm bitmain)

Simon241084

newbie

Activity: 75

Merit: 0

It has nothing to do with having a will or a ball to do that, it has to do with the consequences of doing something like that and the revenue they make every year is huge. They have a mining farm, a mining tank and mining equipment manufacturing. Now the question is do you think they will ruin all the empires that they have built? a 51% attack? I'm sorry, because I do not understand. It is impossible if the construction company will be destroyed.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

As an aside, here on recent Bitmain actions...

Bitmain (being evil and all) has a controlling stake now in the Opera Browser...

https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/bitmain-to-buy-majority-of-shares-in-opera-internet-browser/

https://www.ccn.com/bitmain-backed-opera-web-browser-adds-built-in-ethereum-wallet/

https://cryptovest.com/news/bitmain-to-invest-50m-in-opera-web-browser/

Bitmain: Where evil never rests! (tm Bitmain)

brad

beinformed

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 0

I was waiting for that kind of news but here again with 51% and it will definitely be the end

RawDog

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1026

Quote from: Searing on June 29, 2018, 01:04:32 AM

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

He hates those assholes at Core - so he might just ruin BTC after all. They sure deserve it.

BitcoinNewbie15

sr. member

Activity: 574

Merit: 296

Bitcoin isn't a bubble. It's the pin!

Quote from: Searing on June 30, 2018, 05:38:34 PM

Ok...so they won't do it...I get that

but IF, they or you had the power....and they wanted to do a 51% attack to promote BCH...how would they or you go about such?

(again, talking full evil here max damage)

just curious what would happen if someone did pull the trigger on this and try to destroy BTC...how would it play out?

as to if they will do so..they won't so...yeah...you all that have ....they won't do so.

But playing 'what if' now...would it all shake out in your view?

brad

I think that the real risk is Government collusion attempts with Bitmain. Bitmain has a backdoor in every miner which is essentially a killswitch. If there is a state actor that coerces Bitmain to activate it, then the hash rate will drop significantly and the block times will be insane... They could plan to do something with BCH but I am unsure of what that might be.

www_blockchain

newbie

Activity: 107

Merit: 0

It seems to me that even if Bitmain wants to make an attack of 51% on bitcoin, they will not let it do it. Large investors who hold huge money in bitcoin will defend it.

Wind_FURY

legendary

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1823

Quote from: franky1 on July 01, 2018, 12:43:31 AM

Quote from: Searing on June 29, 2018, 01:04:32 AM

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

it does not matter if a pool has 51% or 500%
if the blocks/tx data do not match the rules/data the network has.. the block the pool makes will get rejected

the real fear is not that pools will attack the network. but that DEVLOPERS will introduce new code and promote that code as mandatory and even threaten to reject pools if the pools do not adopt the new code.

Which makes me want to ask you the question, "Does that prove that non-mining fully validating nodes important for the security of the network?"

Because there are Bitcoin Cash followers that keep on repeating that only the mining nodes matter. Do you agree with them?

BrewMaster

legendary

Activity: 2114

Merit: 1293

There is trouble abrewing

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on July 01, 2018, 06:39:55 AM

But I think the best explanation for Bcash drama is the idea that Bitmain is just squeezing profits from their own equipment, so this is why they've created a new SHA256 network. They are also playing with difficulty adjustment periods - when BTC difficulty increases, they switch to Bcash and vice versa. Before Bcash there was no major SHA256 coin to do this.

that was just a short term game plan which was super profitable with their EDA hack on BCH and they milk it as much as they could before it was removed.
the long term game plan is that they have created demand! as a business it is sometimes not enough to have the supply (ASICs) you also have to create demand (ASIC buyers aka miners). and creating a new copy of bitcoin which they could mine and make profit was that demand creation.

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 2148

Quote from: Searing on June 30, 2018, 10:07:51 PM

OK, again I started this thread because I don't know squat on how this would play out, but HOW is for example BCH supposed to do the so called 'flipping' and

take over BTC as they claim? Or is that just based on their hope that use as a currency and price would do this? (or it is just noise for BCH hyping?)

thanks...trying to sort this out....and hell, is it even possible for BTC to be overtaken at this point in time without the price having to go tulips first?

thanks, just looking for clarity and how much of this is just 'noise' to push their own agenda (BCH)

brad

Their plan was to spam Bitcoin's network with fake transactions to drive the fees up while simultaneously using shills and sockpuppets on social media to spread FUD against BTC and promote Bcash as "the real Bitcoin" that have solved the scaling problem. This plan has failed, because spamming transactions is unprofitable in the long run, and users haven't switched to Bcash, because they trust developers that were working on BTC since early day, and they don't trust Ver, Jihan and noname devs of Bcash.

But I think the best explanation for Bcash drama is the idea that Bitmain is just squeezing profits from their own equipment, so this is why they've created a new SHA256 network. They are also playing with difficulty adjustment periods - when BTC difficulty increases, they switch to Bcash and vice versa. Before Bcash there was no major SHA256 coin to do this.

franky1

legendary

Activity: 4396

Merit: 4755

Quote from: Searing on June 29, 2018, 01:04:32 AM

By the way ...does anyone think that Jihan Wu of Bitmain has the will or the balls to do a 51% attack on BTC?

it does not matter if a pool has 51% or 500%
if the blocks/tx data do not match the rules/data the network has.. the block the pool makes will get rejected

the real fear is not that pools will attack the network. but that DEVLOPERS will introduce new code and promote that code as mandatory and even threaten to reject pools if the pools do not adopt the new code.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: towi078 on June 30, 2018, 11:53:24 PM

It's unlikely Bitmain will do that, if he does. Same thing he destroyed his own kingdom, which he built with great difficulty. Or maybe if he did that for another scenario, it could have happened

Is there ANYTHING Bitmain can do if it did gain 51% of the BTC blockchain..to influence or get its way on stuff with BTC and Bitcoin Core...

(sorry, power corrupts...with that much-centralized hash and the bad relations between Bitmain/BCH and BTC Bitcoin Core..wondering if that could be used

in even a small way as a lever or a way to slow down BTC Bitcoin Core progress or patches?)

hey, just throwing it out there..it is Bitmain by the way..they are frigging evil...)

Bitmain: Where Evil Goes to Train and Freshing up its skill set. (tm: Bitmain)

Brad

towi078

jr. member

Activity: 470

Merit: 1

It's unlikely Bitmain will do that, if he does. Same thing he destroyed his own kingdom, which he built with great difficulty. Or maybe if he did that for another scenario, it could have happened

2fresh

hero member

Activity: 782

Merit: 500

Why would they threaten or hurt the network they have build their business around.

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

if we start theory-crafting then we can do it all day long. Tongue

maybe Bitmain controls 70% of the hashing power in their own farm (not pool). so they decided to distribute it among different pools. they can connect 10% of it to Slushpool for instance, connect 10% to ViaBTC, 5% to CKPool,... to bring it down to 30% or lower and connect that to AntPool which they obviously own.

or maybe they don't own that much. they may only have 10% of the hashrate in their farm and the rest comes from other actual miners connecting to their pools.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: pooya87 on June 30, 2018, 10:23:31 PM

as @hatshepsut93 said you can not promote BCH by 51% attacking bitcoin. they are the same thing when it comes to this sort of attack and if anything BCH is more susceptible to this attack because of its much lower hashrate https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-btc-bch.html#1y

the way to actually hard bitcoin with 51% attack is to accompany it with double spend. otherwise if you wipe the blockchain and put your own new blocks there with pretty much the same transactions only harms other miners. and if they double spend they will be scamming themselves and their pool will go empty as every miner connecting to Bitmain pools will switch elsewhere.

but lets say they did all that and were successful,.... one way that i have heard some altcoins fought 51% attacks is that they place some sort of "checkpoint" so the older blocks can not be orphaned. for example if a block is 5 blocks deep then it can't be orphaned no matter what. so someone doing a 51% attack has to only wipe 5 blocks because he can't do more and the merchants only have to accept 6 confirmation to not be affected by this attack.

again, just curious...in that it looks like Bitmain will indeed control 51% of the BTC network and a big proponent of BCH. Probably does not mean anything.

But, again just was curious. So essentially the only way to counter BTC would be in usage...reflected in value...or as a new store of value angle on the coin.

yeah, those two seem like a real longshot..even if the BTC network does get centralized to Bitmain..won't matter any anyway, except, of course, Bitmain makes

more money than god, as usual Sad

pooya87

legendary

Activity: 3472

Merit: 10611

as @hatshepsut93 said you can not promote BCH by 51% attacking bitcoin. they are the same thing when it comes to this sort of attack and if anything BCH is more susceptible to this attack because of its much lower hashrate https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-btc-bch.html#1y

the way to actually hard bitcoin with 51% attack is to accompany it with double spend. otherwise if you wipe the blockchain and put your own new blocks there with pretty much the same transactions only harms other miners. and if they double spend they will be scamming themselves and their pool will go empty as every miner connecting to Bitmain pools will switch elsewhere.

but lets say they did all that and were successful,.... one way that i have heard some altcoins fought 51% attacks is that they place some sort of "checkpoint" so the older blocks can not be orphaned. for example if a block is 5 blocks deep then it can't be orphaned no matter what. so someone doing a 51% attack has to only wipe 5 blocks because he can't do more and the merchants only have to accept 6 confirmation to not be affected by this attack.

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: hatshepsut93 on June 30, 2018, 06:18:35 PM

Quote from: Searing on June 30, 2018, 05:38:34 PM

Ok...so they won't do it...I get that

but IF, they or you had the power....and they wanted to do a 51% attack to promote BCH...how would they or you go about such?

(again, talking full evil here max damage)

just curious what would happen if someone did pull the trigger on this and try to destroy BTC...how would it play out?

as to if they will do so..they won't so...yeah...you all that have ....they won't do so.

But playing 'what if' now...would it all shake out in your view?

brad

1. You can't destroy Bitcoin with 51% attack. Attacker would need to constantly burn millions to either:

a) Double spend their coins. This is not as easy as it sounds, because exchanges and other parties will most likely require higher amounts of confirmations for bigger transactions. Also, with the amount of money and mining power involved, the culprit will very likely get caught.

b) Mine empty blocks. The network will be on hold, but there will be no other harm.

This will cause some panic and hurt Bitcoin in short term, but as soon as this attack will end, Bitcoin will go back to normal. Some altcoins have recently suffered from 51% attack and they didn't die, their price haven't even crashed much.

2. If Bitcoin will get 51% attacked, it won't help Bcash. They share the same algo, so it would mean that Bcash could also be attacked, even easier than BTC, because it has lower hashrate (there are rumors/reports that some group currently attempts to 51% attack it). If someone would win from it, it would be coins that market themselves as ASIC-resistant.

OK, again I started this thread because I don't know squat on how this would play out, but HOW is for example BCH supposed to do the so called 'flipping' and

take over BTC as they claim? Or is that just based on their hope that use as a currency and price would do this? (or it is just noise for BCH hyping?)

thanks...trying to sort this out....and hell, is it even possible for BTC to be overtaken at this point in time without the price having to go tulips first?

thanks, just looking for clarity and how much of this is just 'noise' to push their own agenda (BCH)

brad

hatshepsut93

legendary

Activity: 3024

Merit: 2148

Quote from: Searing on June 30, 2018, 05:38:34 PM

Ok...so they won't do it...I get that

but IF, they or you had the power....and they wanted to do a 51% attack to promote BCH...how would they or you go about such?

(again, talking full evil here max damage)

just curious what would happen if someone did pull the trigger on this and try to destroy BTC...how would it play out?

as to if they will do so..they won't so...yeah...you all that have ....they won't do so.

But playing 'what if' now...would it all shake out in your view?

brad

1. You can't destroy Bitcoin with 51% attack. Attacker would need to constantly burn millions to either:

a) Double spend their coins. This is not as easy as it sounds, because exchanges and other parties will most likely require higher amounts of confirmations for bigger transactions. Also, with the amount of money and mining power involved, the culprit will very likely get caught.

b) Mine empty blocks. The network will be on hold, but there will be no other harm.

This will cause some panic and hurt Bitcoin in short term, but as soon as this attack will end, Bitcoin will go back to normal. Some altcoins have recently suffered from 51% attack and they didn't die, their price haven't even crashed much.

2. If Bitcoin will get 51% attacked, it won't help Bcash. They share the same algo, so it would mean that Bcash could also be attacked, even easier than BTC, because it has lower hashrate (there are rumors/reports that some group currently attempts to 51% attack it). If someone would win from it, it would be coins that market themselves as ASIC-resistant.

tiennmit

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

not for bitmain, 51% is big for market

Topic: Bitmain 51% Attack? Would they do such if they get the hash? [POLL] (Read 293 times)